Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Coastward]

FUCCK I WANTED NUMBER 20000

oh well, new milestone. glad i came on here a year ago and made some sick friends.

 

[Renth]

Renth vs Moltov winner finals incoming (melee) twitch.tv/gatorgaming

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Eikelmann?

 

[FROST :)]

Eikelmann?View attachment 54097

NBA Pro during the day, Ganon main during the night

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo plup plays super lame lollll no wonder kels is having problems with him.

So so so so close to beating Oro too. So close. That was a hype set. I lived to 220+ on my last stock game three and wall tech baired an fsmash. Lol a lot like the ppmd linguini set from years back. Also RLD dair to end the second game. I'm telling you guys, that **** is the bomb vs marth

 

[X WaNtEd X]

RLD fair/dair is really strong if you condition your opponent not to defend against it. I do ledgehop run off bair, ledgehop jab, ledgehop uair, and ledgedash jab/buffer roll throughout the game and then start pulling out the rld when my opponent has grown accustomed to defending against those options.

Another cool mixup is to condition your opponent to shield the ledgehop run off bair. Then you ledgehop run off waveland grab. Nasty stuff. I find it's especially effective against Marth and Peach.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

My Ganon was so sloppy today. Ended up playing mostly Falcon

Just barely missed making it out of pools. Lost a super close set 2-1, barely won game 1 (Ganon vs Peach FD) and got bodied game 2 (Ganon vs Peach FoD) so I went Falcon (Stadium) for Game 3. Almost had it, I had him right on the ropes, death percent in a perfect position. Grabbed him. Dthrew him.

Missed the knee.

Then I grabbed and Dthrew him again.

And missed the knee again.

Then I lost

**** me I'm so bad If I'd landed that knee I would have made bracket. RIP

Probably gonna go Falcon for some matchups now tho, he's just more fun against some characters.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

RLD fair/dair is really strong if you condition your opponent not to defend against it. I do ledgehop run off bair, ledgehop jab, ledgehop uair, and ledgedash jab/buffer roll throughout the game and then start pulling out the rld when my opponent has grown accustomed to defending against those options.

Another cool mixup is to condition your opponent to shield the ledgehop run off bair. Then you ledgehop run off waveland grab. Nasty stuff. I find it's especially effective against Marth and Peach.

The reason RLD dair works is because it covers a couple options: if you expect them to side-b, they're done. And if they fall low enough to avoid the ledge drop up air (a fantastic edge guard option against marth), the dair will connect. To be completely honest, I've never missed with it in tournament. That's not to say it's unpunishable, but I really think it's a good mixup. The problem with fair is that it'll stage spike, so techable with good reaction time and the range isn't nearly as good as the dair.

 

[Coastward]

k incoming rant so if you dont wanna read it just scroll over it.

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why do we play ganon?

like, seriously? what's the point in playing ganon when there are so many different characters than are more rewarding. i dont even remember why i picked up ganon. i really feel like dropping him but at the same time i cant because i've put so much time into him already. did i waste almost 2 years of play on nothing?

GOML2015 basically ended for me and kage today, save for doubles. he got 17th and i got 33rd. i lost to a peach that's decent and then lost to the link i keep ******** about. kage lost to kjh and unknown. i really wanna know what happened @ Divinokage , how did the best ganondorf in the world lost to foxes that are nowhere near being the "master" of their character?

people like SAUS are going in with characters like link that is apparently worse than ganon, but yet i lost to one today and kage got outplaced by one. is there really nothing else more that we can do to further our character? have we hit the limit? most of the time, we're on here talking about our tournament experiences or just chatting up about ****. i really want to push ganon to the limits, but im not sure if that already happened.

kinda emotional after today, really feel like i underperformed. always losing to the same people but everyone compliments me and says **** like "but you're really getting better!". it definitely feels like the polar opposite right now. i honestly dont know how i can get better from this point. i cant figure out what i need to do in my play in order to fix my mistakes and play in the most optimal way that i can. i really want someone to convince me otherwise, but i think i need to switch characters.

anyways, im out. also good stuff ian for getting 5th. you're obviously doing something right.

 

[Bwmat]

yeah, I'm in a constant character crisis between ganon/falcon/fox, but in the end I feel I end up doing the best with ganon.

he's such a volatile character though, I sometimes go from 2 stocking someone to getting 3-stocked, just because my opponent didn't give me openings I could exploit (OTOH, When I play fox it's all on me).

personally part of the reason I stick with him is literally ego (feels good to stomp people with him and make them ***** about a bad character, or the hype when I get my 2 hit combos LOL).

If I just played fox/falcon I'd be the 'OK-ish fox/falcon main', while now I'm 'best ganon in canada' rolf

but of course the main reason is that he's really fun for me (when I'm not getting dismantled by a top tier)

 

[X WaNtEd X]

The reason RLD dair works is because it covers a couple options: if you expect them to side-b, they're done. And if they fall low enough to avoid the ledge drop up air (a fantastic edge guard option against marth), the dair will connect. To be completely honest, I've never missed with it in tournament. That's not to say it's unpunishable, but I really think it's a good mixup. The problem with fair is that it'll stage spike, so techable with good reaction time and the range isn't nearly as good as the dair.

Oh you're talking about it more from an edgeguarding point of view. I was talking about it being used in a situation where you're fighting from the ledge against someone with center stage. What I'm talking about is RLD double jump dair/fair. I should've been more clear.

I've never tried RLD dair as an edgeguard in tournament. I can see how that would work out. I feel like uair would be better in most situations. The only thing that's tricky about it (and ledgehop uair) is that you'll sometimes get the wrong hitbox if they go too high and then you give them center stage. Unless they're at insanely high percent.

 

[Moy]

Ganon was the first character I ever tried to play when I first started playing Melee, probably only because he hit the hardest. I actually played Falcon starting from mid 2009 up until last August, when I thought that playing a slower character would help me think more during a match; I always thought I was just spamming Falcon's movement without much thought behind it. I've gotten better faster than ever since then, and haven't felt a huge need to switch back, since I still have the most fun with Ganon.

Sure, I could play a top tier, but would I have as much fun playing the game? I think succeeding with a character you like to play holds significance with a lot of players, especially when Melee is only a grand hobby for the majority of the community. I think experience with a character matters as well, just like @ Coastward says - sure I could switch, but then I would have to learn character specifics and MUs from scratch, which would be sort of be a step backwards.

I've thought about going back to Falcon a lot, but I've come pretty far with Ganon, and it's very entertaining to win with him.

The last thing I want is to become just another Marth player in the sea of Marths in Chicago. Or Falco. We got a lot of those too.

 

[-ACE-]

I play Ganon because he punches people and laughs.

Coast, just when you think you've exhausted every avenue, you'll discover a new way to look at certain situations. You know you don't have all of Ganon's tricks mastered, none of us do. Did you get any matches recorded?

 

[Coastward]

I play Ganon because he punches people and laughs.

Coast, just when you think you've exhausted every avenue, you'll discover a new way to look at certain situations. You know you don't have all of Ganon's tricks mastered, none of us do. Did you get any matches recorded?

i only got one pool match recorded against the top seed, played ice climbers.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

why do we play ganon?

like, seriously? what's the point in playing ganon when there are so many different characters than are more rewarding.

"Rewarding" is subjective. Different aspects of the game are more rewarding for different people. For me, the mind games and the adaptation you have to have as a Ganon player really intrigued me. He's a character for people that know how to empathize with others. Against a good opponent, you have to **** with their head a little bit in order to win. Maybe that's not what you want. And that's fine. Don't let others bully you into staying Ganon just because you've been doing it for 2 years. It's ok to switch mains. If you find that the psychological victories you get from playing Ganon aren't enough, choose a character that rewards YOU better. You might have to sacrifice some time into learning that character as well as you learned Ganon, but it won't take you nearly as long. Just make sure you commit to your choice.

i really wanna know what happened @ Divinokage , how did the best ganondorf in the world lost to foxes that are nowhere near being the "master" of their character?

I think we all know the answer to this. Kage hasn't mastered Ganon. No one has. And that's a good thing. I've given up on the idea of Ganon being a "good" character long ago. But the fact that there's still so much to improve upon for every Ganon gives me hope.

is there really nothing else more that we can do to further our character? have we hit the limit? most of the time, we're on here talking about our tournament experiences or just chatting up about ****. i really want to push ganon to the limits, but im not sure if that already happened.

Ganon can definitely be pushed farther. So much farther. Unlike other characters, an optimal style of Ganon has not really been created yet. All the top Ganons are all over the place in how they play. It's crazy. You have to have noticed this by now. Ganon is far from being optimized. Movement and edgeguards still need to be optimized, and the path for that I think is relatively straight forward. But the other elements of the game are pretty much impossible to optimize with Ganon because of how many bad options he has. So you need to trick your opponent. Everyone can be tricked. The question is what you're going to get out of your trick. If your mixup nets you nothing but an ftilt (for example), you aren't optimizing your mindgames.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Maybe some of us just need a break from Ganondorf for a bit. Play who you feel like in the meantime but don't forget to try to learn something from it.

 

[-ACE-]

No shame in picking up a top tier secondary as long as you get ample matches with both character whenever you play. Can't lose that Ganon skill.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Ganon punches things and stomps the **** out of ******* that's all I need.

And all the ganon mains I've met in person are cool as ****, so that helps.

@spider_sense I challenge you to a tech contest at evo (I'm 100% confirmed now). Winner gets a free round of blackjack.

 

[-ACE-]

i only got one pool match recorded against the top seed, played ice climbers.

Man, jab to grab, lol. Gotta SDI that jab and buffer a roll or jab yourself before he can grab. You need more SDI in general also. More ground game too, walling him out with reaction-based low ftilt/jab/AC bair.

As far as melee and Ganon goes, just remember how important each and every exchange is in the game. It's all about consistency. Winning/losing a crucial exchange can be like the butterfly effect for Ganon, and as stocks disappear determination may dwindle. Realize that although you are far from Kage's level, the actual adjustments you'd have to make to get there are small. Situation awareness and being able to react quickly is huge, then it's all spacing. When it comes to Ganon, bringing your spacing up to like a 9/10 from a 7/10 can make you beat someone that normally 2-3 stocks you. Fine tuning your spacing = winning exchanges, and every exchange is super important.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

thanks coastward for noticing.

this is all i have to say about playing ganondorf.

personally, i've always preached that one should always play the character that they enjoy the most, no matter what, lest the game no longer be enjoyable. if you have the most fun playing ganondorf, then play ganondorf. if you don't, then don't. very very simple. to me at least.

i got 5th at a statewide event yesterday, getting first seed in my bracket pool and beating blea gelo 2-1. i lost 3-0 to colbol in winners and then lost 2-1 to pengie in losers in a pretty close set. really need to figure out what to ban vs defensive fox: stadium or fd? in this situation, i wasn't feeling confident in my DK and lost on FD because i banned stadium.

on top of that, my training vs plup paid off because i pretty confidently beat the two shiek players from south florida that gave me an absurd amount of trouble previously this year.

 

[tm]

"Rewarding" is subjective. Different aspects of the game are more rewarding for different people. For me, the mind games and the adaptation you have to have as a Ganon player really intrigued me. He's a character for people that know how to empathize with others. Against a good opponent, you have to **** with their head a little bit in order to win. Maybe that's not what you want. And that's fine. Don't let others bully you into staying Ganon just because you've been doing it for 2 years. It's ok to switch mains. If you find that the psychological victories you get from playing Ganon aren't enough, choose a character that rewards YOU better. You might have to sacrifice some time into learning that character as well as you learned Ganon, but it won't take you nearly as long. Just make sure you commit to your choice.



I think we all know the answer to this. Kage hasn't mastered Ganon. No one has. And that's a good thing. I've given up on the idea of Ganon being a "good" character long ago. But the fact that there's still so much to improve upon for every Ganon gives me hope.



Ganon can definitely be pushed farther. So much farther. Unlike other characters, an optimal style of Ganon has not really been created yet. All the top Ganons are all over the place in how they play. It's crazy. You have to have noticed this by now. Ganon is far from being optimized. Movement and edgeguards still need to be optimized, and the path for that I think is relatively straight forward. But the other elements of the game are pretty much impossible to optimize with Ganon because of how many bad options he has. So you need to trick your opponent. Everyone can be tricked. The question is what you're going to get out of your trick. If your mixup nets you nothing but an ftilt (for example), you aren't optimizing your mindgames.

Pretty much this.

 

[FROST :)]

For me Ganon is all about pride. It feels rewarding to win with him and people respect you when you do so.

 

[Yort]

I play Ganon because he is fun and I like him.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

on top of that, my training vs plup paid off because i pretty confidently beat the two shiek players from south florida that gave me an absurd amount of trouble previously this year.

Do you have any more recordings of you vs. Sheik?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Do you have any more recordings of you vs. Sheik?

nope. soon, though, maybe.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

I play Ganon cause I need to pay rent

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I play Ganon cause I need to pay rent

How's that working out for you?

 

[why]

I play Ganon because he is the character I have the most fun with. I have other, high tier, secondaries, but they just aren't as fun to play as Ganon.

On the other hand, what is the best way to cover the ledge sweetspot? I was playing earlier, and kept dropping edgeguards due to sweetspots. I realize the tip an spike covers this, but sometimes it takes to long to start up. What else could one do to cover that area on the stage?

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Other options that cover that area are dair, low bair, low ftiilt, and dtilt. Uair really is the best option, though.

You need to time it right. Like if you see someone looking like they're going to go for the sweetspot, you start it up early. Another cool thing you can do is grab the ledge right before they get into that area and then immediately ledgehop uair to get that invincibility. It eats through a lot of characters' recoveries. Definitely an underutilized Ganon edgeguarding tool.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

How's that working out for you?

I mean as you can see, Im being robbed by A$AP Rocky, so awful

 

[tm]

@ Divinokage thoughts on your set vs KJH?

Here for anyone interested

 

[Divinokage]

@ Divinokage thoughts on your set vs KJH?

Here for anyone interested

Was extremely hot day 1, sweaty hands = more tech flubs and that basically happened for every set. Everyone was on the same field but had one crucial mistake they got punished really hard for. Obviously vs Fox if you miss an edgeguard its gg for you. Also with the added pressure of a close call, thats pretty much recipe for overheating.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Was extremely hot day 1, sweaty hands = more tech flubs and that basically happened for every set. Everyone was on the same field but had one crucial mistake they got punished really hard for. Obviously vs Fox if you miss an edgeguard its gg for you. Also with the added pressure of a close call, thats pretty much recipe for overheating.

This is why I always wash my hands with soap and water before I play a tournament match to avoid things like this.

 

[-ACE-]

This is why I always wash my hands with soap and water before I play a tournament match to avoid things like this.

yo..... The VS tourneys in Florida can get hot as ballz. I've definitely dropped games/sets before from sweat getting into and burning my eyes lol but no johns. When you just can't wait for the set to be over is harder to focus and you're much more likely to flub stuff or get impatient. If it gets too crowded the AC just can't keep up in there lol. I mean it is like 80-84 degrees here at night and I would MUCH rather play outside, which is actually how I usually play now tbh. Outdoor smash ftw haha.

 

[-ACE-]

http://youtu.be/PQ5AgAPJyAg

This kid probably mains Ganon.

 

[Coastward]

kay, gonna get to grinding in these next weeks now. you guys steered me into a good direction once again. no more bitchin.

does anyone know if 20xx has a thing where you can pause and go frame by frame?

 

[-ACE-]

I think you hit Z while paused to go by frame?

 

[Moy]

I think you hit Z while paused to go by frame?

Yeah, just go to the debug menu and switch it to develop mode.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

yo..... The VS tourneys in Florida can get hot as ballz. I've definitely dropped games/sets before from sweat getting into and burning my eyes lol but no johns. When you just can't wait for the set to be over is harder to focus and you're much more likely to flub stuff or get impatient. If it gets too crowded the AC just can't keep up in there lol. I mean it is like 80-84 degrees here at night and I would MUCH rather play outside, which is actually how I usually play now tbh. Outdoor smash ftw haha.

I play outside too, the streets is my home

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Also how do you change where it says "Smash Apprentice" ?