Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RedmanSSBM]

Oh **** I forgot to mention that I've gotten into the (bad) habit of shielding dropping a lot on platforms and doing an upair or just to get down. It's a bad habit because I try to do it all the time, and I tend to get hit with bad DI while I'm dropping, but I'm definitely really consistent with it. I do need to work more on not always trying to drop through the platform to get away. I gotta remember that I can run away or just jump over my opponent as well. Definitely a habit that I want to fix.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Gotcha. Sounds about right. I wasn't 100% sure.

:locke will probably test this now. Lol

Haha yeah I did out of curiosity. You can buffer a roll away or behind him as long as you hit a spaced fair low on his shield, but I mean his grab is so slow anyway that you can probably stuff most, is not all, of his out of shield options by jabbing his shield after you fair it.

 

[Coastward]

Haha yeah I did out of curiosity. You can buffer a roll away or behind him as long as you hit a spaced fair low on his shield, but I mean his grab is so slow anyway that you can probably stuff most, is not all, of his out of shield options by jabbing his shield after you fair it.

if you keep jabbing though, they'll most likely spot dodge the jab and then go for a grab or some jank ****.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

if you keep jabbing though, they'll most likely spot dodge the jab and then go for a grab or some jank ****.

Link's grab is too slow. Sure he has a good spot dodge, but he's not gonna land a grab on you after the spot dodge and not get hit by another jab. He could nair out of shield or something, but again it's rather slow.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Well I just found some interesting tidbits of information. I was testing to see how actionable Ganon can be out of down-throw compared to up-throw for tech-chasing purposes. By actionable frames I mean how long Ganon has to act from the time he gets out of his throw animation until the opponent lands on the ground. I found that for Fox, around 50% is when up-throw starts to give you more actionable frames to tech-chase instead of down-throw. For Falco it's like in the mid 40% range cause he's a little heavier than Fox, and for Falcon this starts occurring at like 22%.

So basically, if you want to tech-chase the fast fallers, you're going to want to start up-throwing instead of down-throwing at these percents:

Fox: 50%
Falco: 45%
Falcon: 20%

Keep in mind that these percents are where the crossover begins. Meaning that both up-throw and down-throw give you the same amount of actionable frames at these percents. Any higher from there and up-throw will give you more.

EDIT: This was all tested with no DI.

 

[Bwmat]

I don't play against many good links (or often against link in general), but usually I can just roll away after a hit on their shield to avoid the grab as long as I time the hit to be ASAP before I land. Then when/if they whiff the grab you get a free fair/dair.

I usually only get grabbed when they mindgame me into shielding.

I haven't actually played against a link in a while, I think so, although I may be thinking of when you spot Dodge it rather than roll away.

Edit:wrong post lolz, but you get it.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Whenever I try to cc jc grab a Fox's nair, I get shined. Am I doing it too late? Or should I be doing a shield grab instead? I figure maybe the shield grab could powershield the shine.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Entered a small local yesterday. Here are the recorded matches:

vs Falco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXimWfWS4v8
vs Sheik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p5hVqDVdfU

I'm realizing now that I'm messing up a lot of tech and basic things because I'm afraid of messing the things up. I'm not necessarily afraid of losing, but I guess I'm subconsciously being afraid to do certain tech at the ledge cause I'll SD. I don't get it. I do all my tech totally fine in friendlies but when it comes to tournament I play worse cause I'm afraid to play worse. I like don't try to have something to try out or adapt to and I go back to where I feel comfortable, yet it's having like the opposite affect on me cause I actually miss a lot of l-cancels, grabs, wavedashes, etc. It's probably a sure-fire sign that I need to continue doing solo practice on a day to day basis. It seems like to me that I need to just ingrain tech into me so much to the point where I never mess it up and I'm 100% comfortable with it. There's a lot of moments in these two matches that I had a particular idea in mind or a read in mind, but I just didn't hit the right buttons.

TL;DR: My mindset is okay but my techskill is horrid.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Whenever I try to cc jc grab a Fox's nair, I get shined. Am I doing it too late? Or should I be doing a shield grab instead? I figure maybe the shield grab could powershield the shine.

If he does a late nair he can shine you no matter what. If the nair is high and early, then you should be able to CC it and grab him while he is in l-cancel lag.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Would I be able to shield in time after a late nair?

 

[-ACE-]

Would I be able to shield in time after a late nair?

No .

 

[X WaNtEd X]

If that's the case, jab from crouch if they do the nair late. If they do it early to beat your jab, cc jc/shield grab will take care of them.

 

[-ACE-]

I've landed that a few times lately on foxes lately, I've honestly just been flicking down to crouch at the perfect time, releasing immediately and hitting A (literally the same way I do plat cancel nair with luigi). Still haven't perfected my use of setting up the auto CC jab, except for with retreating aerials lol, you're already near the right spot (the down + away knotch) in that case. If they come in late I usually have to shield the nair and shine(s), and buffer a roll out.

 

[tauKhan]

Would I be able to shield in time after a late nair?

It's a bit complicated, but I would say that usually yes. If you're crouching, and the nair does high enough kb that you can ASDI land cancel it, you're +5 on the fox. If you just ASDI land cancel, you're +3. However, if the nair does low enough kb (because you're crouching and very low% for example), then you can't ASDI land, and the fox has very minor advantage on you, and could theoretically combo into shine, but it's very difficult.

Though I don't think cc -> shield sounds very useful strategy. CC jab works if you manage to ASDI land cancel, but it's very tight window even in that case.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

VS Piwo (Marth) (lol)
VS Knubs. (Luigi) (terrible set)
VS Knubs. (Luigi) (that's more like it)
VS Moy (Ganon)
VS Hore (Fox / Sheik) (fox just has to up smash)
edit: (gfycat at 6:38... even with the missed L-cancels lolllll)

VS Ten (Fox)
VS Azzu (Fox / Falco) (I guess this one could use critique. I threw away game 1, and he went Falco game 5. I guarantee I would have won this set if he had stayed fox.)

 

[Moy]

VS Piwo (Marth) (lol)
VS Knubs. (Luigi) (terrible set)
VS Knubs. (Luigi) (that's more like it)
VS Moy (Ganon)
VS Hore (Fox / Sheik) (fox just has to up smash)
VS Ten (Fox)
VS Azzu (Fox / Falco) (I guess this one could use critique. I threw away game 1, and he went Falco game 5. I guarantee I would have won this set if he had stayed fox.)

Wow am I bad at the ditto.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

@Эикельманн [РУС] I got the guy from Russia in my dorm to translate the sentence under your name. Mind if I ask who you're talking about?

totally just saw this, my b.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrgrcKE0XVc

 

[PseudoTurtle]

You're not that bad, you just need to edge guard ganon like I edge guard ganon. I didn't let you recover once, whereas whenever you killed me, it was typically from the stage rather than an edge guard. Don't let me down b near the stage.

It helps if you can predict it- jump preemptively as if I'm going to down b because if I don't, you're not exactly in an unsafe position; you just have to adjust yourself to edge guard whatever I choose to do next.

 

[-ACE-]

I see you lurking Mark.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

It's a bit complicated, but I would say that usually yes. If you're crouching, and the nair does high enough kb that you can ASDI land cancel it, you're +5 on the fox. If you just ASDI land cancel, you're +3. However, if the nair does low enough kb (because you're crouching and very low% for example), then you can't ASDI land, and the fox has very minor advantage on you, and could theoretically combo into shine, but it's very difficult.

Though I don't think cc -> shield sounds very useful strategy. CC jab works if you manage to ASDI land cancel, but it's very tight window even in that case.

What is land canceling? How do you do it after ASDIing?

Btw this is theoretically shield grabbing, not just putting up your shield. CC jab isn't too hard to pull off, but I find that I don't get many good openings from it, it just knocks the Fox away. That's why I want to find ways to punish Fox hard for playing like a regular Fox would.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Oh and since people are posting Russian music, @Эикельманн [РУС] have you heard of this before?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eon1n6aCL30

 

[tauKhan]

What is land canceling? How do you do it after ASDIing?

It's the important 'cancelling' part of cc. You do it by ASDIng down to hit the ground so that the landing animation cancels hitstun. In order for you to be able to do it, kb must lift you off ground, it can't be too low, and it can't be too high so that it knocks down.

Crouching usually helps by reducing the kb so that knock down might not happen, but sometimes it reduces the kb too low so that you can't land, but will instead go into grounded hitstun.

 

[Renth]

I see you lurking Mark.

Perhaps .

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Today I realized I want to play Ganondorf like @ Renth

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I want to play ganon like no one ever has.

But if I had to name a ganon I wanted to play like, it'd be n0ne. His style is similar to mine.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Linguini, Spidey, and Renth were / are my inspirations.

edit: Pretty sure Eddie would kill me if he saw me name literally only SFL ganons lol

 

[-ACE-]

Someone actually asked if I was RockCrock last night lmao. One tournament I entered as him, spider_sense entered as renth, and Blea entered as eddy Mexico. More impersonations to come.

 

[Divinokage]

Why am I no one's inspiration.. *sniff* lol. I mean you're ALL my inspiration.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Why am I no one's inspiration.. *sniff* lol. I mean you're ALL my inspiration.

I didn't hear about you or even Eddie, Bushman, or Tipman until later, actually. When I searched the pro ganon matches when I first started, only linguini and renth would come up.

Obviously, as I discovered more ganon players, notably you, Ian, G. Vice, and Tipman, I've made it a point to implement what I find are the best strats and tactics from all the ganons into my own play, while trying to invent and discover new ganon stuff.

 

[Coastward]

someone please make a falcon guide lmao....

i got bopped today, but my mentality is slowly improving. also, training on changing your playstyle in tournaments isn't the best idea.

 

[FROST :)]

someone please make a falcon guide lmao....

i got bopped today, but my mentality is slowly improving. also, training on changing your playstyle in tournaments isn't the best idea.

Smoking pot before locals is worse...

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Why am I no one's inspiration.. *sniff* lol. I mean you're ALL my inspiration.

Cause you old, GET CHO OLD ASS OUTTA HERE

 

[Renth]

Linguini, Spidey, and Renth were / are my inspirations.

edit: Pretty sure Eddie would kill me if he saw me name literally only SFL ganons lol

SFL Ganons? I'm from Pennsylvania.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEBPvzJbuoI is that really you & Vudujin @ Renth ?

 

[Renth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEBPvzJbuoI is that really you & Vudujin @ Renth ?

Sure is, Jacob is a good friend of mine.

This video was around a time I hadn't played melee in years and was just getting back into it. At that same event this also happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAYHHRy61Qo

Edit: Vudujin double eliminated me at that event.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Sure is, Jacob is a good friend of mine.

This video was around a time I hadn't played melee in years and was just getting back into it. At that same event this also happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAYHHRy61Qo

Edit: Vudujin double eliminated me at that event.

Yo that fair stage spike was GODlike and that uair uair to fair yo?! YvngFalconHoe

 

[Divinokage]

someone please make a falcon guide lmao....

i got bopped today, but my mentality is slowly improving. also, training on changing your playstyle in tournaments isn't the best idea.

Why not, its not like you can expect to win the entire tournament. You have to adapt constantly during each match and maybe youll find new tactics you can use the next time you lose vs someone because generally losing tells you exactly what you need to work on.

 

[-ACE-]

Coast, if it makes you feel any better I lost to the same pikachu last Monday, but 2-1 this time. After a few tall boys and a or 2, I didn't really notice that he NEVER approaches until late in game 2, lmfao. I'll be more ready next time.

I have 2 sets vs Falco up on twitch.tv/vsgc from Thursday's melee tournament (it's near the beginning). I had to leave early though. They might find their way to YouTube soon.

 

[Divinokage]

Coast, if it makes you feel any better I lost to the same pikachu last Monday, but 2-1 this time. After a few tall boys and a or 2, I didn't really notice that he NEVER approaches until late in game 2, lmfao. I'll be more ready next time.

I have 2 sets vs Falco up on twitch.tv/vsgc from Thursday's melee tournament (it's near the beginning). I had to leave early though. They might find their way to YouTube soon.

Lol i opened the vid to see a bald ESAM.. didnt even recognize him for a few seconds omg.

That first Falco always went for 1 button then tried to hard read. So weird.. >_< Actually the 2nd one also but hes much better. lol

You're trigger happy with those down-Bs and you seem to like to jab knockdown to read dair inside a lot too. Hmm, in general it seemed like you missed a lot of punishes like from his laggy moves or missed a few L-cancels that got you punished for a bit of damage.

 

[-ACE-]

yeah I get lazy and yolo B moves sometimes LOL. I could have adapted a lot sooner.

Also I'm thinking about entering as BaldByChoice once lmao