1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  3. Use the Smashboards Store to get awesome Smash stuff and support the site, like a Nintendo Controller or the Wii U - Gamecube adaptor ! Check out the inventory in our store and support Smashboards with your purchase today!

Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Discussion in 'Ganondorf' started by Linguini, Jan 10, 2009.

  1. -ACE-

    -ACE-
    Expand Collapse
    Gotem City Vigilante

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    11,492
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC

    I've often thought about getting a tattoo but can never make up my mind. No way I'm getting something smash related tho lol.
     
    PseudoTurtle likes this.
  2. Duel

    Duel
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2013
    Messages:
    167
    Nah, it's just because Ganon is the ****.
     
    PseudoTurtle and -ACE- like this.
  3. PseudoTurtle

    PseudoTurtle
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
    There are a lot of MI ganons. Duel, minor threat, some others I can't recall. Maybe coast just means slightly more established ganons, like the ones that post here or get on stream more frequently.
     
    #19243 PseudoTurtle, Apr 17, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
    tm and Coastward like this.
  4. PseudoTurtle

    PseudoTurtle
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
    So, a bit off topic, but this is a good practical application for moonwalking in the neutral. Kind of a ****ty moonwalk, but yea. Admittedly, I was just doing it for flash and style (it's ganon dittos- come on), but it had the side effect of baiting out an up air and a jab, which I punished.

    I'm not really sure where this would apply in other matchups, but it's something to think about. Maybe bait out a scrubby marth fsmash?
     
    #19244 PseudoTurtle, Apr 17, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
    Orah and tm like this.
  5. Divinokage

    Divinokage
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    16,250
    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    That wasnt even a punish he just got caught somehow. lol
     
    PseudoTurtle and Coastward like this.
  6. PseudoTurtle

    PseudoTurtle
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
    I worded it wrong. I punished him AFTER for his spacing. Contrary to what many people may think, wavelanding off a platform into fair actually has a purpose lol he didn't "just get caught somehow." Just don't spam it.

    GIMME SOME CREDIT KAGE
     
    #19246 PseudoTurtle, Apr 17, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
    spider_sense and -ACE- like this.
  7. X WaNtEd X

    X WaNtEd X
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,638
    Location:
    Lowell, MA
    There are a lot of people with ganon secondaries in Boston. But there are very few ganon mains. There is a guy called crow with a pretty good ganon, though.
     
  8. Locke Robster

    Locke Robster
    Expand Collapse
    The Immaculate Ambitionist

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
     
  9. PseudoTurtle

    PseudoTurtle
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
    Crow is a ****ing god, dude.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sQxMIVgk_E

    In all seriousness, his ganon looks good, not spectacular, but very solid. What I'm most impressed with is his ability to retain his composure in that situation. Amazing.

    edit: Locke beat me to it.
     
    #19249 PseudoTurtle, Apr 17, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
    Locke Robster likes this.
  10. Locke Robster

    Locke Robster
    Expand Collapse
    The Immaculate Ambitionist

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    -ACE- likes this.
  11. PseudoTurtle

    PseudoTurtle
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
    nevermind this post
     
    #19251 PseudoTurtle, Apr 17, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
    -ACE- likes this.
  12. Endllol

    Endllol
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9
    When using a reverse uair to edgeguard should they be able to sweetspot (say marth or something)? I know I should just grab edge or use a Marth Killer in that example but in the perfect case will the reverse uair work or not. I just want to know if I'm accidentally FF to early or using the move to late and ****ing up my edgeguards.
     
  13. PseudoTurtle

    PseudoTurtle
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
    The reverse up air spike would definitely be able to beat out a marth sweet spot. Perfect against falcon / ganon too.

    Here, practice this: go to temple and plug in a second controller. Choose falcon for the ghost controller. On temple, take falcon to that ledge in the middle of the stage (where he won't die if he falls off). Practice your Eddie spikes here, as that's the only move you can hit him off the ledge with. Once you've knocked him off the ledge, that's it!

    I say to choose temple because he doesn't die when you tip him off, so the practice is more efficient.
     
    #19253 PseudoTurtle, Apr 17, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
    -ACE- likes this.
  14. -ACE-

    -ACE-
    Expand Collapse
    Gotem City Vigilante

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    11,492
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC

    Use Marth killer whenever possible. Reverse uair spike works but the spacing is demanding sometimes.
     
    #19254 -ACE-, Apr 17, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  15. Locke Robster

    Locke Robster
    Expand Collapse
    The Immaculate Ambitionist

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
  16. Orah

    Orah
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    Ok so Oos options:

    Rolling forward: should be used sparingly and can be punished easily if predicted, I find myself doing this too much cuz I flub up wavedash Oos.

    Rolling away: better but can be punished if it's expected.

    Wavedash Oos: Great if you're consistent with it, I've been working on wavedash back jab/grab against spacey shield pressure and wavedash forward jab/grab agaisnt Marth. I suppose the key against Falcon must be wavedash back Oos Up angled f-tilt.

    Up-b: I don't try it too often, I know it's super situational but I like trolling with it.

    Sheild drop aerial: Haven't mastered it yet but as far as what aerials to use. Isn't shield drop upair and bair the best tools because of how fast they come out compared to fair?

    Instant Up-air: I try doing this against spaceys and it works occasionally

    Full-hop: I doubt its good for getting out of well spaced shield pressure but it can punish a laggy attack on shield. I think fair and dair auto cancel if done right out of a full hop and this can lead to fake outs like full hop aerial dj aerial. Could help with wavelanding on a platform near you too.

    Shield grab: I do this too much and should probably stop only time it works usually is when I waveland into shield then grab, standing shield grab imo is a no-no against well spaced pressure.

    Spot-dodge- I don't know how good Ganon's is but I should probably try it a little bit more. Does spot-dodge jab work for anyone?

    I know Ganon doesn't have a lot of shield options and usually most characters don't want to be in shield because of how limited your options are but shielding required for many of Ganon's match ups.
    Ex. Wavedash Oos agaisnt Falco lasers, Sheik needles/grab, Marth f-smash/grab.
    I just wondering what works best for yall and I know rolling is really good for ganon but I find myself doing it too much and I'm trying to mix it up more.

    Also, does anyone know how many frames Ganon's wavedash is?
     
    ando and tm like this.
  17. Glennwood

    Glennwood
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2015
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Pictou County Nova Scotia
    NNID:
    nuclearglenn
    Local tourney today. My doubles partner plays Ganon too so heres to the Greudo Guardians sweeping dubs. Wish us luck boys, gotta show em what Ganon can do.

    Also what would be some good matches of Ganon teams to watch to get some ideas on various common match ups? Thanks in advance.
     
    #19257 Glennwood, Apr 18, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2015
    PseudoTurtle likes this.
  18. -ACE-

    -ACE-
    Expand Collapse
    Gotem City Vigilante

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    11,492
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC

    Use rolls wisely, they don't get punished as much in dubs. And use roll from ledge when **** is hectic. Pressure the guy edgeguarding your teammate. Good luck lol.
     
    Bwmat and PseudoTurtle like this.
  19. Glennwood

    Glennwood
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2015
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Pictou County Nova Scotia
    NNID:
    nuclearglenn
    That's a big relief cause those are the exact tactics we practiced and mastered all week man. My confidence is now 10 times higher.
     
    -ACE- likes this.
  20. PseudoTurtle

    PseudoTurtle
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
    @Orah
    Rolling toward isn't that bad. Bad vs marth unless you feel an fsmash coming. Bad vs falcon. Good vs falco. Good vs fox sometimes.

    Rolling away is one of ganon's better options in shield.

    Wavedash oos: its too slow for all of the things you listed besides marth. You can also wavedash oos --> jab / maybe grab vs fox up smash. This is better at low percents, up-b is better at high percent

    As soon as I practice shield dropping, I'm going to implement it a LOT vs marth. Up tilt? Shield drop bair. Fsmash? Shield drop bair. You get the picture.

    Up air: amazing vs marth and falcon nairs. Good vs fox and falco nairs.

    Bair: good when your opponent crosses you up, for example a marth nair. Sometimes good vs spacies. Watch your spacing and see if you can avoid the shine and bair will sometimes do the trick.

    Full hop fair: good if you read a marth fsmash or up tilt. Good vs falcon sometimes.

    Full hop stomp: good vs fast fallers.

    Shield grab: underrated. You have to be VERY mindful about when to do it and when not to. You can shield grab marth a lot of the time, you can sometimes shield grab falcon. Wait until after he gentleman's you and then grab. You can grab a poorly timed aerial too.

    Spot dodge is ok, kinda slow. If you realize you were baited into a bad roll juuuust after rolling, you can buffer a spot dodge and sometimes spot dodge --> jab works. Example here. Landed 32% instead of most likely getting KO'd.

    Ganon's wavedash is slow. I don't know how slow, but it's not the greatest.

    Hope this helps a bit, dude. Hell, I hope it helps all of you lol
     
    #19260 PseudoTurtle, Apr 18, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2015
    tm and Orah like this.
  21. Bwmat

    Bwmat
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    663
    I roll like a madman with ganon, and even more in dubs.

    For out of shield, my go-to options are grab and roll (mostly away). I honestly grab more than I should, especially against spacies, but the reward on a grab is good enough to almost make the risk worth it.

    spot dodge is garbage, really. I use it when I'm against characters with slow, laggy grabs mostly, as otherwise they can just grab you after the spotdodge, or if I read a laggy move instead of a grab. I use it more than I should.

    up-b OOS is actually pretty good IMO if you use it sparingly, and at the right time. Mostly is when a non-spacy crosses up my shield, or, specifically, against fox/falco up-tilting my shield thinking they're safe. It's his only option to punish if they're behind you, unless they're in a bit of lag. It also works well against a variety of dash attacks that cross you up (otherwise just grab)

    up-air out of shield is good, but it doesn't really work that well if your opponent is right in your face, it's better if they're trying to space their moves to avoid a shield grab (thing that instantly comes to mind is marth attempting to to space fairs (non-fastfalled, so either fullhop fair, or shorthop non-fastfalled fair to (attempted) second fair), you can usually get a free uair oos on that)

    Situationally, I sometimes go for nair OOS, you really want to do it as close as possible to frame-perfect as possible, since it'll only hit (most characters, although there's some it can't, especially if they're crouching) if you do it that low. It actually combos into its second hit against some characters at some percents (usually I see it against falcon/fox at low/mid), and you might even be able to follow up the second hit.

    dair is good if you read a spotdodge or grab, or anything with enough cooldown that won't hit you after you jump.

    bair can be really good if they're behind you. If done right it comes out really fast, although it can be hard to hit some characters if they're standing too close.
     
    #19261 Bwmat, Apr 18, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2015
    Orah likes this.
  22. Orah

    Orah
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    @PseudoTurtle
    As far as wavedashing Oos isn't that Ganons only consistent way of approaching Falco's SHL?
    Theres power sheilding which I haven't really been too successful at, and there's the L+Z+A power sheild which seemed interesting at first but also difficult to implement and also has had mixed results as far as how useful it is.
     
  23. Coastward

    Coastward
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,560
    Location:
    Pumpkin Hill
    if you're talking about consistent ways of approaching lasers, you can make powershielding just as consistent as WDOOS, which would basically make it the stronger option. i usually tend to not approach when a falco is laser unless they are spamming it in place, so i think powershield is the superior option.
     
    -ACE- and Orah like this.
  24. Bwmat

    Bwmat
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    663
    Yeah, I go for powershields while dash dancing.

    I can get it a good portion of the time. Last night I was playing some friendlies, and I played two games in a row in which I did a 2-stock comeback against falco while over 140% as ganon by just powershielding _everything_.

    there's always hope as long as you don't screw up, lol.
     
    #19264 Bwmat, Apr 18, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2015
    Orah likes this.
  25. PseudoTurtle

    PseudoTurtle
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
    Bro, when you find a way to approach falcos SHL, you lemme know lol. In my experience, wavedash oos is ok, but there's not really a reason to shield lasers anyway if he's that far away.
     
    Coastward and Orah like this.
  26. Bwmat

    Bwmat
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    663
    man, I wish I had some recordings of yesterday, I was just completely shutting down falco's laser game at times.

    I think I went a whole stock without getting hit, powershielding at least like 5, and getting a fair out of one of the powershields.

    but really, I think the optimal strategy is, when falco is far away, run at him on the ground, either hopping over (backwards hop is better, thanks skytch) lasers or (power)shielding them. Don't let him just spam them from a distance.

    At close range... powershielding is good, but harder since you have less time to react. I usually just roll away and then do... something.
     
  27. Badger

    Badger
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Socal
    3DS FC:
    0920-1043-4043
    NNID:
    Badger12
    yo can any of you give advice on moonwalking for ganon?
     
  28. YvngFlameHoe

    YvngFlameHoe
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Messages:
    589
    Location:
    Dade County
    I practiced in slow mo melee or In training where you can slow it down, I practiced doing it where I walked first then dashed the other way and did the moonwalk motion, and when he slide all the way back I dashed again and did the motion again and again til he was constantly moving back
     
  29. Duel

    Duel
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2013
    Messages:
    167
    I got 9th out of 64 at a Michigan tournament yesterday, happy with the results I have been getting given that I am still new to the scene, but I still feel like I am absolutely garbage lol. Feels like I do the same **** over and over again.
     
    tm, Orah, -ACE- and 1 other person like this.
  30. Locke Robster

    Locke Robster
    Expand Collapse
    The Immaculate Ambitionist

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    I was talking with a bunch of GA folk at The Royal Treatment and @Linguini came up in conversation. I remember DruggedFox specifically saying that Linguini would fill the holes in his neutral game with crouching. Like, Linguini would bair and then right after whiffing he would have the threat of CC grab be ever-present.

    Makes it interesting to think how to play Ganondorf in neutral a little better. DruggedFox still thinks that we're not really developing Ganon as a character, and that 2010 Linguini is the only one that has been really innovative. He did mention though that @Divinokage has been the most iconic Ganon that's currently active though, so that's interesting to hear.

    Maybe I should look more at Linguini videos to see what he did in neutral.
     
    tm likes this.
  31. Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

    Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir
    Expand Collapse
    PhD; Smash Community Studies

    • Premium
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    3,263
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    3DS FC:
    2191-7691-7941
    @Эикельманн [РУС] I got the guy from Russia in my dorm to translate the sentence under your name. Mind if I ask who you're talking about? :p

    also the next tournament I'm going to is probably gonna be next weekend. Gonna be some people from another city coming for the first time for this series and I'm assuming they'll be better than I am and my winning streak will end. Gotta work on Falco and Marth MUs, and hope I don't run into any of the 3 good Sheiks that will be there. @Coastward if you want to make the trek out to Peterborough message me on facebook and I'll send you the information.
     
  32. Yort

    Yort
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Georgia
    chaddd plays falco now dude.
     
  33. -ACE-

    -ACE-
    Expand Collapse
    Gotem City Vigilante

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    11,492
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC

  34. Locke Robster

    Locke Robster
    Expand Collapse
    The Immaculate Ambitionist

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Lame. I remember seeing him play Ganon at Olympus.
     
  35. YvngFlameHoe

    YvngFlameHoe
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Messages:
    589
    Location:
    Dade County
    You mean on Olympus, as in that old *** heaven with Zeus and ****
     
  36. Locke Robster

    Locke Robster
    Expand Collapse
    The Immaculate Ambitionist

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    So after talking with @Bizzarro Flame about how to use upair to cover spacies side-b and up-b sweetspot attempt, and saying that you shouldn't fast fall it, I now have concrete evidence to show why you shouldn't FF the upair if you want to hit it at its lowest possible trajectory, and that it can also cover the edge of the side platform all the way to below the ledge.

    Ganon non-FF upair ledge coverage.png

    As you can see here, getting the 16th frame of upair is crucial, as it is the lowest hitbox that can be output from upair. This image above is one of the lowest, if not the lowest possible 16th frame of the move to reach below the ledge. You can even move a bit to the left or right so that you don't risk your hurtbox being hit, so the leniency there in terms of horizontal positioning is rather fair. You'll rarely overshoot or undershoot as long as your foot, when standing, is almost touching the ledge.

    Now why to not FF instead of FF: If you jump, and wait until frame 16, 17, or 18, (roughly just as you are starting to fall from reaching the apex of your jump; react to you reaching the apex of your jump to time this right) you will get the 16th frame of upair to land below the ledge, and frame 18 is the perfect frame, as it's what happens in the image above. If you upair on frame 19 of your short hop, you'll only get frame 15, which doesn't go as low. If you upair on frame 15 of your SH, it will still go pretty low, but not exactly below the edge.

    If you DO fast fall: You have to start upairing on frame 9 or 10 of your jump, and then start fast falling on frame 7 of your upair, you will get frame 16, but it won't be as low. In fact, if you're even slightly off with the FF timing, you'll end up getting the horrid frame 15 that isn't good a lot more often than you would if you didn't fast fall.

    So all in all, not fast falling gives you a 3 frame leniency at LEAST to get frame 16 and go below the ledge.

    If you Fast Fall, you're at a much higher risk of falling too quickly and getting frame 15 instead of frame 16.

    For a visual cue on when to upair (since you won't need to time the FF because you're not doing it) on Battlefield, just look to upair when coming down so that at the beginning of the upair, your leg alligns with the side platform on BF.

    For Yoshi's Story, it's the same relative thing as BF, but the really cool thing is the beginning of your upair can cover all the way to the end of the platform on YS, so you can wait until Fox up-bs at a high angle and hit him on the way down, even if he's about to land on the platform, even just staying in the same position you'll still hit him haha. Yoshi's too good.

    For Dreamland, it's just a bit below the platform.

    For Pokemon Stadium, it's also just slightly below the platform, but not as much as on Dreamland.

    For FoD and FD, you'll just have to just the apex of your jump as a visual cue.
     
    GodOfGhosts, Orah, tm and 1 other person like this.
  37. PseudoTurtle

    PseudoTurtle
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
    Yea, but... is it really that hard to get it frame perfect? It's a total of a 4 button imput, and a slow one at that. You're stating the safer option, but what if you're in a crunch?

    Tipman always fast fell and I usually defer to him when it comes to the up air spike lol.

    Where you are correct, however, is when fox / falco don't sweetspot, but you still want that spike. But, to be honest, I usually just bair here. Much easier, just as effective.
     
  38. X WaNtEd X

    X WaNtEd X
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,638
    Location:
    Lowell, MA
    What about ledge hop uair? Does the hitbox of that resemble the frame 16 image you posted?
     
  39. Locke Robster

    Locke Robster
    Expand Collapse
    The Immaculate Ambitionist

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    You could probably just get really lazy and only ever use upair to edgeguard in friendlies and really try to get the timing down. Of course, like you said, if you're in a pinch and need to be a bit faster, go ahead and fast fall. But if you want to be accurate, and have the time to time it, then you should probably not FF it.
     
  40. Locke Robster

    Locke Robster
    Expand Collapse
    The Immaculate Ambitionist

    • Moderator
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Ganon ledge-hop upair to cover the ledge.png

    Looks pretty close to it. This was achieved by letting go of the ledge for 2 frames, not FFing, and double jumping and holding forward, and then you upair on frame 6, 7, or 8 of your double jump to get it below the ledge and still be intangible. It takes me roughly 6-8 frames just to move my finger from the Y button to the c-stick.
     
    Zigludo, GodOfGhosts, tm and 7 others like this.

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)

We know you don't like ads
Why not buy Premium?