Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RedmanSSBM]

Probably was. If both of them were really bad then yeah one of them was me. :D
If you played green Marth and Ganon than I saw you play a lot. Never spoke up though, but I'm regretting it now, I really should have.

Ah well cool man, at least I got to play you a little, even though we didn't really introduce each other. Yeah I play the Green Marth and Ganon. They're both really fun to play

 

[Bwmat]

actually I lied, there was another one
http://www.twitch.tv/xprisma6/b/630966720?t=22m15s

Where we get stomped by bladewise + a 15-year old.

edit: only the third match is close, and I went fox welp

edit 2: wtf how did i forget about all these streamed doubles matches. There was another one, but no one cares lol, so here's the one cool thing I did: http://www.twitch.tv/xprisma6/b/630988453?t=4m55s

edit 3: a surprisingly good edgeguard sequence against shiek (for me at least) http://www.twitch.tv/xprisma6/b/631070988?t=1h34m35s

 

[Yort]

I'm really interested in seeing the recent vods of both eikelmann and n0ne.

Does anyone have the link to the twitch channels they were streamed on?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Do you guys find it easier to do certain tech when facing/moving in a certain direction?

I started thinking about this when I was practicing ledgedashes earlier today and I had about 10-15 more SDs on the right ledge than I did on the left ledge. I'm wondering if you guys ever had similar problems and if you had any ideas about how to make it a bit easier for me?

 

[Duel]

Do you guys find it easier to do certain tech when facing/moving in a certain direction?

I started thinking about this when I was practicing ledgedashes earlier today and I had about 10-15 more SDs on the right ledge than I did on the left ledge. I'm wondering if you guys ever had similar problems and if you had any ideas about how to make it a bit easier for me?

I am much better on the right than the left, by a huge margin, it's natural to be better on one side I suppose, but obviously something we need to work on.

 

[JoeBoco]

Odd question, who is a good teammate for doubles?

 

[-ACE-]

Odd question, who is a good teammate for doubles?

Fox, peach, jiggs.

 

[JoeBoco]

Fox, peach, jiggs.

The problem I have with Jigglypuff is that once she missed a rest, I can't lightly wake her up without throwing her across the stage.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

The problem I have with Jigglypuff is that once she missed a rest, I can't lightly wake her up without throwing her across the stage.

Do a weak reverse upair on her or just jab. Jab isn't gonna hurt her that much really.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Do a weak reverse upair on her or just jab. Jab isn't gonna hurt her that much really.

BRO YOUR NAME

THAT'S AMAZING

I'm thinking I might get the aka Jigglysir removed from my name cuz Brawl is dead and I don't really play Smash 4 Puff as much

I have nothing on topic to say right now. Tournament this weekend. Gotta practice hard if I wanna win again.

 

[Divinokage]

http://www.twitch.tv/projecttoronto/b/628439487?t=5h03m28s Damn Armada... Getting rid of the gods is only a matter of time now! I was excited just watching the set, it's really good no bias.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

BRO YOUR NAME

THAT'S AMAZING

Thank you good sir

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I'm really interested in seeing the recent vods of both eikelmann and n0ne.

Does anyone have the link to the twitch channels they were streamed on?

I second this.

Do you guys find it easier to do certain tech when facing/moving in a certain direction?

I started thinking about this when I was practicing ledgedashes earlier today and I had about 10-15 more SDs on the right ledge than I did on the left ledge. I'm wondering if you guys ever had similar problems and if you had any ideas about how to make it a bit easier for me?

Everyone has had this problem, from what I know, though most of us have a much easier time on the right side... must be a Canadian thing.

My advice is to practice. Nothing is too technical if you practice it enough, however, doing it consistently in tournament is a whole other beast.

The problem I have with Jigglypuff is that once she missed a rest, I can't lightly wake her up without throwing her across the stage.

Do the weak part of the dash attack- it's quick and it won't send your partner anywhere. Reverse up air is good, like........ Locke Robster.......... said, but that takes a little more time. I'd say sour spot dash attack is your best bet. Just my $0.02.

 

[Superspright]

Why not throwing her? You can even use her as a weapon at your opponents.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

The problem with throwing her is that it takes longer to do that, which opens you up to bigger punishments than a jab does.

Everyone has had this problem, from what I know, though most of us have a much easier time on the right side... must be a Canadian thing.

My advice is to practice. Nothing is too technical if you practice it enough, however, doing it consistently in tournament is a whole other beast.

I still think you're @ -ACE- whenever I see you post.

 

[Superspright]

Throw her at the opponent. You can also throw her during their hit to parry it in a sense, because you have invincibility.

 

[n0ne]

I second this.



Everyone has had this problem, from what I know, though most of us have a much easier time on the right side... must be a Canadian thing.

My advice is to practice. Nothing is too technical if you practice it enough, however, doing it consistently in tournament is a whole other beast.



Do the weak part of the dash attack- it's quick and it won't send your partner anywhere. Reverse up air is good, like........ Locke Robster.......... said, but that takes a little more time. I'd say sour spot dash attack is your best bet. Just my $0.02.

Mine are on youtube under vgbootcamp's and EMG Vods channels

 

[tm]

Got 4th at a MI local (64 entrants) on Saturday, beating MI PR #5 (a sheik player), losing to Kalamazhu twice (0-2, 1-3).

If I can level up my neutral game vs a strong turnip utilizing peach I think I can win. I'm thinking more waveland mixups and also platform camping when she has a turnip. I was doing much better the 2nd set but wasn't strong enough on FD.

No vids. Itching to watch those n0ne sets tho.

 

[Superspright]

Fighting against the turnips is weird as ****. After that new discovery I'd just powershield them back pretty easily. Ganondorf's light-sheild is enormous. They are fairly clunky and slow and she can't profit if you just drop shield and react afterward.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I think it's hella cool to just get used to grabbing the turnip mid air and throw it back at her. It's not that hard if you practice it enough.

 

[tm]

I don't like having to jump to catch them because if she doesn't throw it then you are in a bad position and forced to give up space or take a risk. Her aerial turnip throw is manageable, but the grounded one is difficult to react to in time and moves fast enough that it's straight up difficult to catch even if you are ready for it. I wonder if it's even reasonable to jump->midair grab a ground thrown turnip on reaction.

I could be closing in space better before the turnip is pulled, but it's also risky and the range that she can cover (between running away from you and pulling a turnip, and dash attacking towards you because she expects you to run forward to try to punish the turnip pull) is really large.

@ Divinokage @Эикельманн thoughts?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ tm I think you can react to the Peach actually throwing the turnip if you're prepared for it. And if you're on the ground you can just jab the turnip (which sometimes will make you grab if the turnip is close enough) or you can shield the turnip and then jump out of shield to catch it really quickly then throw it or drop it.

Practicing this is kind of hard since it's better to have a second person around the throw the turnips instead of a computer, but then again I haven't tried to get a Peach computer to throw turnips all the time to actually practice it haha. It's definitely something you can work on.

 

[-ACE-]

Seriously. Limit the opportunities she'll have to throw the turnip from the standing position when you'll be unprepared (wavelands and platform work). You can catch them with A sometimes while standing as we all know, not too hard with some practice tbh. Anything else jump and Z as we all know. Fvck grabbing turnips though, grab HER and dthrow that a$s!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

@ tm , nice job dude! I'd like to see some of your vids soon.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

You can also just grab the turnip in mid-air, throw it at her, make her shield and then grab her all in one swift movement.

 

[-ACE-]

You can also just grab the turnip in mid-air, throw it at her, make her shield and then grab her all in one swift movement.

Or throw it away and bair. A mixup really only tipman has used well.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

First off, I like n0ne's turnip strategy the best. You jump to catch the turnip on reaction, double jump, throw turnip down, land with a uair/bair/fair/waveland/nothing depending on spacing. I started trying this out and it's pretty effective. There so many good examples of this strategy in this video in particular. Even standing turnip throws seem to be able to be catched upon reaction. Check this **** out here. He ledgehops and still is able to catch at turnip thrown by a standing peach from a standing position. Here's another example of catching a turnip thrown by a standing peach on reaction, sort of. It kind of looks like the jump was preemptive, and the z/a was too. But I don't think that's that bad because worse case scenario you nair in place and cover it up with a jab or something.

Second, I wanted to ask a question regarding moonwalking. I remember a few months ago, someone here mentioned that the moonwalk could be used to extend Ganon's grab range behind him. I'd like to know if this applies even if you don't perfect moonwalk. For example, let's say there's someone in their shield behind me. I double jump perfect waveland into moonwalk grab. I definitely get some distance from the moonwalk, but let's assume I'm not fast enough to get the full distance. Do I still get that extended grab range? In other words, is the extended grab range proportional to the moonwalk range?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

is the extended grab range proportional to the moonwalk range?

The short answer is yes.
The long answer is yes because the farther you go with the moonwalk, hence how "perfect" it is, the further back your grab hitbox will go because it move with you. I'm pretty sure the grab hitbox comes out behind Ganon when it's a dash grab, not a jump canceled grab. Moonwalking just pushes you further into your opponent, it doesn't really extend the actual hitbox.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

The short answer is yes.
The long answer is yes because the farther you go with the moonwalk, hence how "perfect" it is, the further back your grab hitbox will go because it move with you. I'm pretty sure the grab hitbox comes out behind Ganon when it's a dash grab, not a jump canceled grab. Moonwalking just pushes you further into your opponent, it doesn't really extend the actual hitbox.

Are you 100% certain that it isn't the hitbox being extended? Also, does moonwalking count as a dash grab? Wouldn't that extend the grab hitbox? Will some swag as **** Ganon employing these moonwalk tactics please come out of the shadows and give some insight on this?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Are you 100% certain that it isn't the hitbox being extended? Also, does moonwalking count as a dash grab? Wouldn't that extend the grab hitbox? Will some swag as **** Ganon employing these moonwalk tactics please come out of the shadows and give some insight on this?

I'm positive. There is no "extension" of any hitbox, ever. You're just moving backwards thanks to the waveland and the moonwlak helps to extend the momentum backwards, but there is no extension of a hitbox. It might feel like there is an extension of a grab hitbox because it looks like you can grab someone from pretty far behind you when you do it. If you go into develop mode on 20XX and pause and advance the frames using Z, you can see that if you grab during the moonwalk, your hitboxes are the same you are just moving backwards. If you're moonwalking, you can just press Z to dash grab since you're technically already dashing.

 

[Renth]

http://www.twitch.tv/hungrybox/v/3843464

2:34:50

That zero death is RAW

 

[Kryout]

I tried playing Marth and Falcon a little bit, and they're fun, but they're just not Ganon fun. Falcon can get frustrating and I feel like I'm watching him more than playing him, and Marth just doesn't "feel" right (If that makes sense at all I don't even know). Until I learn some more advanced techniques, I don't think I'll put too much thought into switching characters. Most likely I won't switch after I learn some cool stuff anyway. I think I'm in it for the long haul with ye ol' Dark Lord.

I've had time to think about the matches I played at Olympus though. Falcon destroyed me because I didn't know how to deal with how fast he was and I could never seem to get a good hit on him (also I got chaingrabbed. D: ). I got absolutely bodied by the Peach too, also because I had no idea what to do against her. Mainly it was just me not knowing the matchups, but any tips on how to deal with faster characters + Peach?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

http://www.twitch.tv/hungrybox/v/3843464

2:34:50

That zero death is RAW

dirty as ****

daaaaaaamn

Renth you need to go take a shower after that.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Kryout To deal with Falcon being fast, you got to be out of his range most of the time, and be prepared to stuff his nair approach with an up-angled ftilt, or wait for him to land and bair him while he's in lag or grab him. I don't know how that Falcon got away with CGing you... Grab Peach a lot, catch her turnips, bair her a lot, etc. We've discussed Peach a bit even on just this page.

 

[Stitch4]

So I made a ghetto thread to post this, and Eikelmann suggested I put it here, so I am. Most of this is copy pasta, cause life's easier that way. But I noticed that in the Captain Falcon threads that Scar and Hax made a training regimen for falcon players(wouldn't allow me to share the link due to being new to the boards), and I was wondering if someone has already done this for Ganon, or if somebody could make one for both me and other aspiring Ganon players. When I hop on to do a bit of training I practice SHFFL aerials, wavelands, and sweetspotting the ledge, but aside from that its not very focused training.

I've been able to find "guides" on how to practice Eddie Spikes and other character specific things to Ganon, but its all buried in different posts or in the Ganon FAQ that's like 300+ pages long now making it very difficult to find specific things. There is a lot of stuff that can't be practiced just by yourself or in training mode, and there are some guides already stickied (like the chain grabbing guide amongst others) that have helped me a ton, so I'm talking about a guide for things to practice on your own/fundamentals and AT's that all Ganon players should know and practice on their own. If a lot of that info was consolidated into 1 post and someone was able to make a solid training regimen for The King that we all know and love, then I know that me, as well as a lot of the newer Ganon players out there, would be forever grateful.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Stitch4 You mention a project that I very much would like to work on over the summer, where I will have a lot more time to do things that I want. What you propose sounds like a great idea and it can definitely help the aspiring Ganon players out a lot. Doing a Ganondorf trials video would be really fun for me to do.

 

[Dank.Dankerson]

Is there anyway Ganon can jab rest?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Is there anyway Ganon can jab rest?

Yes, but it's not practical. You can hit them with the ending frames of the up air (similar to how you would perform a Tipman / Eddie spike).

They can roll out of it and you have to read the missed tech, so it's not really a good option, especially when ganon has multiple ways to cover 2, 3, and sometimes even 4 tech options.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ PseudoTurtle Pretty sure the only time Ganon can cover all 4 tech options is if he is tech-chasing on a platform. And it's usually with down-smash, correct?

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Down-smash sucks against someone well-versed against Ganon because they will either SDI the first hit to avoid the second hit or combo DI the second hit.

Also, Ganondorf usually has to face away from his opponent after the up-air reset, so a down smash would not work in terms of timing. For example, if the opponent get-up attacks after being Tipman resetted, then it will likely clink with the second hit of the down smash.