Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[tauKhan]

@ X WaNtEd X The most important part about intangible stalls that don't give additional intangibility is letting go off the edge frame perfectly, which is required. Ganon probably has some leniency in the dj / wl / ff part. Not sure though, multiple frame perfect inputs are required with some chars.

 

[Coastward]

why the **** is ledgehop invincible jab DO HARD?

i swear theres like a 1 frame window to get it.

 

[-ACE-]

why the **** is ledgehop invincible jab DO HARD?

i swear theres like a 1 frame window to get it.

Nah. Ledgehop grab must be FP IIRC. But jab, 2-3 frames of error.

@ T tauKhan ? Lmao

 

[tauKhan]

@ -ACE- Guess I'm kinda tired lol

 

[X WaNtEd X]

yeah the invincible lh grab is some tough ****. i can do the invincible jab consistently, but i almost never try the grab because i'll mess up the invincibility most of the time. there's a huge difference in difficulty between fp and a 3 frame window.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Try to practice with infinite stocks on either battlefield or final destination. Remember, it's the same input as the ledge dash itself, but just in the opposite direction. It took me awhile to get it down too, but keep trying.

This, but do it on temple instead. There's a ledge in the middle of the stage there, so if you fall off it via mistaken air dodge, you won't die. You can only practice from the "right" side of the stage here though.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

This, but do it on temple instead. There's a ledge in the middle of the stage there, so if you fall off it via mistaken air dodge, you won't die. You can only practice from the "right" side of the stage here though.

lol i'm ******** why didn't i think of that before

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Doing my weekly Ganondorf Analysis: http://www.twitch.tv/skytch

 

[Clocked]

@ SwiftNinjaBlackMan are you going to Nebs this week?

 

[SwiftNinjaBlackMan]

@ SwiftNinjaBlackMan are you going to Nebs this week?

i might its either this week or next week

 

[Coastward]

got 2nd at my weekly AGAIN.

i have a problem and i don't know what it is. i know what my weaknesses are when i i play and when i become vulnerable but i just can't fix it and i don't know why. it takes me forever to adapt for some reason, maybe a mental block or something?

i need some ganon wisdom from the homies rn.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Coastward Yeah I have adapting problems as well. I'm trying to work on that. What I'm trying to do to remind myself to adapt is observing what my opponent does when I do something; how they react to a situation. In my head I say how he responded andthen think of a way to get around it. Yeah, it's hard to get in the right mindset when you're in the heat of the moment, You need to go in with a gameplan first, and then adjust it based on what your opponent does.

Your opponent is stupid until proven smart. If basic gimmicky things work on him, then keep using it until he adapts, and then come up with a different way to punish. Take some time to think in between stocks, calm yourself. If you get really nervous, do not do anything risky. Keep your eye on your opponent and react to what they do. Don't think "just one more hit and I win this game" cause that will get to your head. Just focus on reacting to what your opponent does and keeping a calm and focused mind. Hard to do, I know. You have to be really used to high pressure situations. I'm thinking of taking deep breaths in between stocks next time I get nervous, as putting more oxygen into your lungs can help you to relax. Drink water too. Getting good sleep of course helps a lot.

Don't focus on the outcome of the match, focus on you need to do right now. Figure out your opponent's habits and capitalize on them. Keep track of your habits and mix them up. Force yourself to try something new with confidence and don't hesitate. Doing all of this is going to be hard at first and take a lot of high pressure situations to get used to, and that's why you MM people. You MM them to help with those nerves knowing that something is on the line. The nerves are only going to get worse when you get on stream and when you have a crowd behind you. Learn to play a little bit for the crowd and enjoy the crowd cheering, not the pressure to perform for the crowd.

 

[Renth]

http://challonge.com/SC20Melee

 

[Yort]

http://challonge.com/SC20Melee

Beautiful

Any of them streamed? Please post.

 

[Renth]

It was twitch.tv/gatorgaming

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

What are Ganon's OoS options in general, and for certain character match ups worth mentioning?

 

[tm]

Shield release
Grab
Roll
Spotdodge
Jump
-> upB
-> upsmash
-> Wavedash
-> Aerial

 

[Yort]

What are Ganon's OoS options in general, and for certain character match ups worth mentioning?

Roll and shieldgrab are your only "good" options out of shield as Ganondorf.

The other notable mentions are up b out of shield, uair out of shield, upsmash out of shield, and bair out of shield.

Up b is probably the only one besides roll, shieldgrab, and wavedash, that can get you out of spacie pressure. It requires pretty precise timing and a high risk factor to use it in-between shine pressure however.

Up air is great for stifling empty hops / nair approaches by spacies, marth, etc. In fact it's good against anyone above you really. You can also punish for example a marth double fair on your shield with up air out of shield. You should be using instant up air out of shield (practice with A button if you don't) lots but it is not very good for getting out of frame tight stuff like spacie pressure.

Moral of the story is that Ganon does not have good OOS options.

 

[tm]

Why A button for instant uair OoS???

Edit: I don't think you should discount so many options that readily. My 2 cents.

 

[Yort]

Why A button for instant uair OoS???

Edit: I don't think you should discount so many options that readily. My 2 cents.

Yeah probably. What ones am I ignoring.

And is it not better to do instant up airs out of shield with A button? I figured you were supposed to do with A to get them faster. I Just learned it this way because I learned how to do falcons instant up airs with A. Kind of like how you are supposed to do falco instant shine bairs with A button to get them as fast as possible.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Cstick > A

 

[-ACE-]

Bair oos is awesome vs Falco/falcon when they aerial through you. It can work vs Fox but not as well. Good for shield pokes too.

For uair oos I just hit c-up twice very quickly with precise timing.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Well, it seems like everyone has their own views for ganon's out of shield options. +1 for discussion spark, @ YvngFlameHoe

As ACE said, bair oos is amazing vs falcon because it beats everything. All aerials, grab attempts, everything. Falco, I'm not too sure about, but I'm a bit shaky vs. falco, so whatever. Just be careful with the lasers. I like it vs fox too when they try to cross you up with nairs and such.

I can't stress how good up air oos is. Be creative with it, but the disjoint is so good for scooping up your opponents. Falcon doing that annoying thing where he keeps pressuring your shield with repeated nairs (out of shield grab range)? Up air. Marth doing THE EXACT SAME THING? Up air. Easy. At low percents, you're all but guaranteed a second up air too- sometimes even a fair.

It can be used situationally vs. fox as well. Best when he full hops (obviously), but at certain spacings, you can trade or flat out beat fox's SH nair.

As for doing it quickly, I don't see why not just Y/X + C-stick. But do whatever's comfortable. People think I'm crazy for doing RLD without using the C-stick.

Wavedash oos is absolutely underused. DO NOT discount this one. It completely wrecks marth. Fsmash on shield is not safe- wavedash in and grab that ****. The same goes for fox's upsmash, though the timing is a little tighter. Again, be creative. Experiment with this one as this tech IMO has been pretty much untouched with dorf.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Well, it seems like everyone has their own views for ganon's out of shield options. +1 for discussion spark, @ YvngFlameHoe

As ACE said, bair oos is amazing vs falcon because it beats everything. All aerials, grab attempts, everything. Falco, I'm not too sure about, but I'm a bit shaky vs. falco, so whatever. Just be careful with the lasers. I like it vs fox too when they try to cross you up with nairs and such.

I can't stress how good up air oos is. Be creative with it, but the disjoint is so good for scooping up your opponents. Falcon doing that annoying thing where he keeps pressuring your shield with repeated nairs (out of shield grab range)? Up air. Marth doing THE EXACT SAME THING? Up air. Easy. At low percents, you're all but guaranteed a second up air too- sometimes even a fair.

It can be used situationally vs. fox as well. Best when he full hops (obviously), but at certain spacings, you can trade or flat out beat fox's SH nair.

As for doing it quickly, I don't see why not just Y/X + C-stick. But do whatever's comfortable. People think I'm crazy for doing RLD without using the C-stick.

Wavedash oos is absolutely underused. DO NOT discount this one. It completely wrecks marth. Fsmash on shield is not safe- wavedash in and grab that ****. The same goes for fox's upsmash, though the timing is a little tighter. Again, be creative. Experiment with this one as this tech IMO has been pretty much untouched with dorf.

By grab that ****, do you mean grab marth or grab the sword mid Fsmash, cause the 2nd one sound crazy xD

 

[-ACE-]

Lol I don't RLD or ledgedash with C-stick at all. Down all day.

You shield the fsmash completely, instantly perfect wd forward, grab, profit.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Lol I don't RLD or ledgedash with C-stick at all. Down all day.

You shield the fsmash completely, instantly perfect wd forward, grab, profit.

E-Z MONEY

 

[-ACE-]

Speaking of EASY MONEY.

After the utilt attempts this set, I may have a new favorite smasher.

http://youtu.be/_h3i2OdKzuE

Style is cool and everyone goes wild about it, but we've all seen/done that ish before. Gotta love the utilt attempts though. Even the warlock punches lmao.

A few very good instances of professional-grade techchasing too.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Speaking of EASY MONEY.

After the utilt attempts this set, I may have a new favorite smasher.

http://youtu.be/_h3i2OdKzuE

Style is cool and everyone goes wild about it, but we've all seen/done that ish before. Gotta love the utilt attempts though. Even the warlock punches lmao.

A few very good instances of professional-grade techchasing too.

That movement on PS is amazing

 

[tm]

Yeah probably. What ones am I ignoring.

And is it not better to do instant up airs out of shield with A button? I figured you were supposed to do with A to get them faster. I Just learned it this way because I learned how to do falcons instant up airs with A. Kind of like how you are supposed to do falco instant shine bairs with A button to get them as fast as possible.

If you're physically capable of uairing OoS with A button without full hopping or double jumping, all the power to you, but I assume that you must be full hopping all of them, which isn't really desired because the hitbox won't come out as close to the ground, and you're in a worse position if it misses.

 

[spider_sense]

http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/v/3783177 <---- I did play Marth in a few of these sets, but I'll put a time stamp for Ganon.

HRM (Fox) 1:30
Bamboozle King (Peach) 2:03
Blea Gelo (Luigi) 2:18
Zidane (Fox) 2:42

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I tried playing some Sheik for the Sheik matchup and Falcon for FD. I couldn't control those characters very well since they were out of practice. Guess I'll just be sticking with the Dorf then. Can't be getting distracted.

 

[Divinokage]

I tried playing some Sheik for the Sheik matchup and Falcon for FD. I couldn't control those characters very well since they were out of practice. Guess I'll just be sticking with the Dorf then. Can't be getting distracted.

To me it simply sounds like you need a better gameplan overall. You can't be switching characters unless you've done everything you can to overcome a matchup or player. Basically, unless you can beat the best players in the world then there's work to do. Everyone struggles at their own level.

 

[Duel]

Quick question, does Bair beat Falcon's knee? I struggle with this matchup so much, i am not good at it, but I am also inexperienced at it.

 

[SwiftNinjaBlackMan]

Has Anyone ever hit Stomp up tilt yet? I just hit that on someone in friendlies and it FELT SO GOOD


btw i got rekt by kage =(

 

[dERO!]

All these videos you guys are posting i wish i could watch but i only have web on my phone, it makes me a sad dero !

Ps: went to a local in paris yesterday, got a few recorded sets i hope i'm gonna learn a thing or 2 out of those

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Lol I don't RLD or ledgedash with C-stick at all. Down all day.

You shield the fsmash completely, instantly perfect wd forward, grab, profit.

Yeah neither do I. Control stick all the way.

Most of my button choices are kind of weird. I only use X and R. The only time I use L is when I'm light shielding.

Also (not really directed at anyone in particular), why do people say it's hard to wavedash oos with only one button? You literally just have to release a the shoulder button and hit it again lol.

 

[Divinokage]

Has Anyone ever hit Stomp up tilt yet? I just hit that on someone in friendlies and it FELT SO GOOD


btw i got rekt by kage =(

You were the one that wanted an off-stage Warlock Punch.. too bad you had to be at the end of it. lolll.

 

[-ACE-]

Quick question, does Bair beat Falcon's knee? I struggle with this matchup so much, i am not good at it, but I am also inexperienced at it.

Bair has to be perfect to win clean. Trades happen often. Have your DI ready.

High ftilt beats knee easier usually but the input for high ftilt makes you survival DI which is only optimal when you're at high% or near the ledge in certain situations. Something to pay attention to.

@ X WaNtEd X I agree, I'm fine with X+R

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yea, @ Duel I actually find that a full hop bair is easier to beat the knee (tougher to land the hit, but easier to space... if that makes sense), but it can be done too with short hop.

@ spider_sense wrecking blea! That was really good. And I'm also glad to see someone recover well vs. peach... Too many players tend to DI in towards that dair of hers.

How did you do that thing where the down smash sent you towards the stage? Was it CC first hit, DI 2nd hit? Enlighten me

 

[Yort]

If you're physically capable of uairing OoS with A button without full hopping or double jumping, all the power to you, but I assume that you must be full hopping all of them, which isn't really desired because the hitbox won't come out as close to the ground, and you're in a worse position if it misses.

They are all short hops if i want them to be and I am very consistent with short hop up air out of shield. I think I learned it this way because I never really learned to jump oos with up on c stick and I've never heard of the double c stick thing ace was talking about. I just jump with Y, go up on analog slightly, and do A. I do not really see what is so difficult with the input, I thought this was the way most falcons do instant up airs and it was the way I learned instant up airs with both falcon and ganon. Experimenting with it now and I can't get my up airs out of shield nearly as fast with Y to c stick up as I can with A button, which feels near instant. I also do this with falco shine bair, feels all around much more plausible to get the quickest shine bair with down b to y to a rather then down b to y to C stick back.