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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

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Bwmat

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
665
I assume you're the guy playing falcon in the first match? I can't even tell how good you are due to lag, lol.

This kind of turns me off from trying netplay.
 
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tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
@ -ACE- -ACE- Sorry I honestly don't know, I suspect it's how you said, falcons first hit nair probably has higher bkb.

Edit: Tested it out, the first hit of the falcons nair has high enough bkb that it can never be below the kb threshold of land cancelling. The bkb isn't affected by weight so it's the same on the whole cast.

There's also one other reason why some moves cannot be cc'd: sakurai angled moves spike at very low kb. This might be a reason foxes weak nair works so well vs crouch, not sure what the threshold for sakurai spiking is compared to land cancelling though.
 
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tm

tm

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
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Location
NWOH
Depends on your definition of sweetspot. There exists a spot where he can upB, grabbing ledge at a 'low' height that is harder to cover, but his legs will always flip above stage height before he does so.
Sweetspotting generally refers to grabbing ledge from as low (vertically) as possible (and is therefore something that all characters can do). A distinction can also be made for horizontal sweetspotting.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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The back country, GA
YvngFlameHoe said:
Can ganon sweetspot? Cause that ish hard
Click to expand...
Not really with up-b, but you can sometimes get around the options that cover true sweetspots just by reversing the up-b. It won't always work vs the better options that reach low (like marth's tipper dtilt). You can sweetspot with the dj (still vulnerable to many dairs). And remember you can tech anything with the right SDI. Even the Tipman spike in dittos.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Lowell, MA
-ACE- said:
Not really with up-b, but you can sometimes get around the options that cover true sweetspots just by reversing the up-b. It won't always work vs the better options that reach low (like marth's tipper dtilt). You can sweetspot with the dj (still vulnerable to many dairs). And remember you can tech anything with the right SDI. Even the Tipman spike in dittos.
Click to expand...
Let's talk about SDI for a second.

From what I've understood, teching the ledge is basically SDIing into the stage (left or right) and teching. Depending on the move, are there other directions of SDI that are more effective or even necessary to get a tech off?
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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The back country, GA
I think it depends on the power and trajectory of the kb of the move you're trying to SDI, the amount of hitlag/hitstun, and (obviously) how far you are from the ledge when you are hit. But I honestly can't think of a scenario where I'm absolutely sure one SDI (often accompanied by a ASDI input also) input isn't enough to get the tech (one input works vs a bomb-omb if you are right beside the ledge). Getting multiple inputs is also isnt super easy.

We talked about it in May a bit.

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-...uini-q-a-thread.215432/page-333#post-16716017
 
Duel

Duel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
167
How does Ganon's Spot dodge rank in comparison to the rest of the cast? I tend to never spot dodge, I'm assuming this is bad on my part?
 
T

tauKhan

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Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
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@ X WaNtEd X X WaNtEd X @ -ACE- -ACE- You can SDI tech any move that is strong enough to put you in tumble. The requirements are:
1) You must touch the wall after sdi
2) Your tech window must be active when you touch the wall

Since the sdi tech happens during the hitlag, the actual kb the move would do to you is irrelevant except it must cause tumble.

ASDI happens on the 1st frame of kb, so for ASDI tech to work the ASDI must give you more speed towards the wall than the kb moves you away from the wall. So at higher percents it's often required to SDI wall tech.

If you want to guarantee tech jump, it's best to press x/y at the same time as inputting tech, x/y tech jumps have same buffer window as the tech, 20 frames. This way you can concentrate on getting the SDI to hit the wall or perfect ASDI without compromises.

Additionally if you press R/L during hitlag, the tech window apparently closes after the hitlag. I'm not exactly sure how this work, but I think if you want to ASDI tech or tech hits that send you inwards, you cannot input the tech during hitlag.
 
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X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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tauKhan said:
@ X WaNtEd X X WaNtEd X @ -ACE- -ACE- You can SDI tech any move that is strong enough to put you in tumble. The requirements are:
1) You must touch the wall after sdi
2) Your tech window must be active when you touch the wall

Since the sdi tech happens during the hitlag, the actual kb the move would do to you is irrelevant except it must cause tumble.

ASDI happens on the 1st frame of kb, so for ASDI tech to work the ASDI must give you more speed towards the wall than the kb moves you away from the wall. So at higher percents it's often required to SDI wall tech.

If you want to guarantee tech jump, it's best to press x/y at the same time as inputting tech, x/y tech jumps have same buffer window as the tech, 20 frames. This way you can concentrate on getting the SDI to hit the wall or perfect ASDI without compromises.

Additionally if you press R/L during hitlag, the tech window apparently closes after the hitlag. I'm not exactly sure how this work, but I think if you want to ASDI tech or tech hits that send you inwards, you cannot input the tech during hitlag.
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the info, but I was just looking for whether there were any situations where it was a better idea to SDI in a different direction. I suppose it's my fault as I'm now seeing I wrote the post as if I knew nothing about wall techs.

tauKhan said:
Yeah it's something Kadano figured out last winter I think, it's quite new thing, been using it ever since.
Click to expand...
It's that new? I figured out how to do that like a year ago just by trying out random ****. Didn't realize I was using "new technology" or I would've posted that **** lol.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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YvngFlameHoe said:
The waveland jump over peach's downsmash to fair was too gangsta when I seen it y-day xD
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Was that a waveland jump? It looked more like a ledgehop dash offstage double jump fair to me. How else could he have turned around? If he wavelanded off and jumped he would've RLD'd and had to do a bair to hit peach.

Also gotta say I loved the ledgehop up-b. That isn't invincible is it? I think he could've maybe done a jab there and it would've been safer. The only situation I can think of that would be a really good option would be if the other player was standing to far away for the jab or grab to hit off the ledgehop. Still, something I think would make for a good surprise here and there.
 
T

tauKhan

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@ X WaNtEd X X WaNtEd X I kinda made the detailed explanation so that you could deduce yourself that you want to always sdi towards the wall. I didn't imply you don't know anything about wall techs, I just put all that in there because I feel there's still players that don't know everything about them, so it's never bad to explain mechanics in detail, right?

And yeah I think a lot of players have probably known about x tech jumps, but thought it's so simple/basic that it must be generally known, and so it has never been documented on smashboards before.
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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Hey guys, I spontaneously felt like writing 10 Basic Things to do during Friendlies and Tournament:

  1. Always keep an eye on your opponent. You should be able to control your character through peripheral vision.
  2. Play patiently. Don't just throw out moves and try to do things as fast as possible. Time everything you do.
  3. Observe your opponent's actions in certain situations. Do they always respond the same? How do they mix it up?
  4. If you lose a stock, take time on the angel platform to think about what happened in your last stock. Reflect.
  5. Do not try to press buttons too quickly or spam. Only hit the buttons or sequence of buttons once.
  6. Don't get frustrated when you get outplayed or when something "cheap" happens to you. Think about why and how it happened and adapt.
  7. If you make a mistake, don't beat yourself up over it. Slow things down and calm your mind. Accept that you're human and that you are not perfect.
  8. When something works on your opponent, acknowledge it and keep in mind to not make yourself predictable. How else could you have punished your opponent? What will they expect next time?
  9. Remember that stage position is key. If you have an opportunity to take stage control, do it.
  10. Don't get flustered if you lose the match. Focus on the next one and keep in mind what your opponent did to defeat you.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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Joined
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So I've been experimenting with a few spacing techniques. I don't really see many Ganons doing this, so I'm not sure if it's because it's not very useful, if people don't know, or if I'm just missing it when I study games.

Regardless, here's some footage of me perfecting landing on the lower platforms of battlefield off a fullhop and then immediately dropping into various aerials. It's extremely fast and from my recent experiences in friendlies, it catches people off-guard. It's kind of similar to how you often see Ganons intentionally whiff a fair on a platform only to drop into a uair to hit someone trying to punish. I also showed a few examples of using this spacing technique after doing certain maneuvers from the ledge.

I've found that this type of spacing can be done on pretty much any stage with platforms. It's harder on Yoshi's, FOD, and Pokemon, but still doable from certain angles. It's main application is for Battlefield and Dreamland.


I apologize for the ghetto recording, but I think you can see what I'm doing well enough. If you're wearing earbuds, turn down the volume!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QptrjGXLVqM&feature=youtu.be
 
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Coastward

Coastward

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
1,560
Location
Pumpkin Hill
Skytch said:
Hey guys, I spontaneously felt like writing 10 Basic Things to do during Friendlies and Tournament:

  1. Always keep an eye on your opponent. You should be able to control your character through peripheral vision.
  2. Play patiently. Don't just throw out moves and try to do things as fast as possible. Time everything you do.
  3. Observe your opponent's actions in certain situations. Do they always respond the same? How do they mix it up?
  4. If you lose a stock, take time on the angel platform to think about what happened in your last stock. Reflect.
  5. Do not try to press buttons too quickly or spam. Only hit the buttons or sequence of buttons once.
  6. Don't get frustrated when you get outplayed or when something "cheap" happens to you. Think about why and how it happened and adapt.
  7. If you make a mistake, don't beat yourself up over it. Slow things down and calm your mind. Accept that you're human and that you are not perfect.
  8. When something works on your opponent, acknowledge it and keep in mind to not make yourself predictable. How else could you have punished your opponent? What will they expect next time?
  9. Remember that stage position is key. If you have an opportunity to take stage control, do it.
  10. Don't get flustered if you lose the match. Focus on the next one and keep in mind what your opponent did to defeat you.
Click to expand...
you forgot to add "have fun"

X WaNtEd X said:
So I've been experimenting with a few spacing techniques. I don't really see many Ganons doing this, so I'm not sure if it's because it's not very useful, if people don't know, or if I'm just missing it when I study games.

Regardless, here's some footage of me perfecting landing on the lower platforms of battlefield off a fullhop and then immediately dropping into various aerials. It's extremely fast and from my recent experiences in friendlies, it catches people off-guard. It's kind of similar to how you often see Ganons intentionally whiff a fair on a platform only to drop into a uair to hit someone trying to punish. I also showed a few examples of using this spacing technique after doing certain maneuvers from the ledge.

I've found that this type of spacing can be done on pretty much any stage with platforms. It's harder on Yoshi's, FOD, and Pokemon, but still doable from certain angles. It's main application is for Battlefield and Dreamland.


I apologize for the ghetto recording, but I think you can see what I'm doing well enough. If you're wearing earbuds, turn down the volume!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QptrjGXLVqM&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...
rip to your melee disc LOL
 
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n0ne

n0ne

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
509
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Alright Ganon bretheren i am here and not abandoned u

Some Dorf material finally.

Smash @ York 5 Feb 7th
vs Kay (Sheik) Pools set https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBdEUbea-G0
vs Hammertime (Ice Climbers) Bracket set https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1p_aB7aVdE
vs Raynex (Fox) Winners Semis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhM5dqGKvOs (Last match)
vs Weon-x (Fox) Winners Finals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJDMD-UQTEQ (second last match)

Basically my run with da dorf on saturday, all else is general flacon (aaand Young Link) (mm my Young link)

did what i could, controller messed me up mid-set in the middle of weon-x set, and then did a losers finals runback with raynex with a destroyed R button and it only went completely downhill

New controller iminent
 
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X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
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Location
Lowell, MA
Coastward said:
rip to your melee disc LOL
Click to expand...
i've had this disk since the dawn of time. and naturally, it's gotten beat up. it generally will do that infrequently when it first starts to get worn down whenever i'm quitting out of a match. but over time it will get worse to the point i can't even play without it doing that. when that happens i just take extremely fine sand paper and some water and buff out the scratches. yup, this is some legit disk cleaning tech right here that will save all your disks and make them last forever. don't listen to the people trying to get you to use tooth paste lol.
 
Yort

Yort

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Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
168
Location
Georgia
spider_sense said:
Of course he can silly. Usually if you feel you won't be able to sweetspot, you should ALWAYS try to tech.
Click to expand...
I was under the impression that Ganon could not sweetspot
X WaNtEd X said:
Was that a waveland jump? It looked more like a ledgehop dash offstage double jump fair to me. How else could he have turned around? If he wavelanded off and jumped he would've RLD'd and had to do a bair to hit peach.

Also gotta say I loved the ledgehop up-b. That isn't invincible is it? I think he could've maybe done a jab there and it would've been safer. The only situation I can think of that would be a really good option would be if the other player was standing to far away for the jab or grab to hit off the ledgehop. Still, something I think would make for a good surprise here and there.
Click to expand...
Seriously guys please clarify was that a RLD into DJ forward air or did he just ledgehop pivot wavedash forward incredibly fast then DJ forward air?

Can you not turn around RLD at all? Using this logic it would have had to been 1. ledgehop 2. (pivot????) 3. wavedash foward 4.DJ forward air.

I need to know. I have to learn this mans ledge option. That was very slick.
 
Coastward

Coastward

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Joined
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Messages
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Pumpkin Hill
Yort said:
I was under the impression that Ganon could not sweetspot


Seriously guys please clarify was that a RLD into DJ forward air or did he just ledgehop pivot wavedash forward incredibly fast then DJ forward air?

Can you not turn around RLD at all? Using this logic it would have had to been 1. ledgehop 2. (pivot????) 3. wavedash foward 4.DJ forward air.

I need to know. I have to learn this mans ledge option. That was very slick.
Click to expand...
RLD is wavedashing back to the ledge from a ledgehop. So you technically can't turn around from a RLD.

In the clip, the guy did: ledgehop > dash off stage > double jump back > fair
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

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The next step is being able to do it fully invincible. I think you have to fast fall straight after the waveland input to make it work.
 
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