Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Renth]

@ n0ne I do not recommend going through with that money match.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

http://youtu.be/ZE2710Q-Ukw?t=8m54s

 

[n0ne]

@ n0ne I do not recommend going through with that money match.

how come? i mean im very versed in that mu. Also, i main falcon myself so i have a lot of knowledge going both ways

EDIT: Also, @ X WaNtEd X

if u are sheik fighting against dorf and u have the need of chaingrabbing him

JUST EFFIN QUIT THIS GAME RIGHT NOW. U ARE LAME AND DONT NEED TO HAVE THIS GAME IN YOUR LIFE. I DONT EVEN CARE

 

[PseudoTurtle]

N0ne can definitely keep up with gravy.

And @Clocked its kind of up to you to figure out different applications for wavelanding. In my experience, wavelands are mostly used as a mindgame or an answer to a certain move, and, unfortunately, mindgames can't really be taught in the conventional sense. An example of wavelanding into a move: if you expect your opponent to shield, you can jump and pretend to throw out an aerial attack, but instead just Waveland behind and grab. Bizzarro flame and renth do this a lot, its a classic ganon trick.

 

[-ACE-]

I think we'll be seeing a new (improved) anti-Ganon game from gravy after playing not only ian but jason too a good bit lately.

n0ne is certainly capable though, we'll see what happens.

 

[Renth]

I wish my recording stuff didn't get messed up I got a couple things I want to show you guys

~_~ explaining in text sucks

 

[Swooty]

I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with spacies right now. I have a very tough time getting out of shine pressure, especially with fox, and I can't seem to get in with falco lasers.

What's the best way to deal with spacies, and what are ganon's out of shield / pressure escaping options?

 

[Boomerang78]

Hey everybody, Ganon (and Marth) main from Ontario here. I was recommended by Shiny Mewtwo to pop in and say hello. I'm still scrubby slop but I'm looking to improve by stomping on people's faces.

 

[Coastward]

Hey everybody, Ganon (and Marth) main from Ontario here. I was recommended by Shiny Mewtwo to pop in and say hello. I'm still scrubby slop but I'm looking to improve by stomping on people's faces.

cool, maybe you can be my apprentice. hope to see you at a tournament soon

I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with spacies right now. I have a very tough time getting out of shine pressure, especially with fox, and I can't seem to get in with falco lasers.

What's the best way to deal with spacies, and what are ganon's out of shield / pressure escaping options?

so im about to give you some bad news; ganon has very little out of shield options. you have:

• roll
• spotdodge
• wavedash out of shield
• up b out of shield

theyre still good tools to escape pressure, it just choosing the right time to use one of these so that you dont get punished. you can also shieldgrab too, but its more of a risk compared to the others.

as for spacies, im gonna call in @ Renth cuz i think he plays the MU fantastically.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I think bair oos is a viable option vs the spacies upon occasion.

 

[Coastward]

I think bair oos is a viable option vs the spacies upon occasion.

oh yeah i forgot about that, mostly because i never have myself turned away from a space animal. only time i really use it is against falcons when they overshoot.

 

[banoberducky]

post has been deleted

 

[Coastward]

holy **** all these new ganons in ontario, tybg.

who knows the peach MU? @ Эикельманн [РУС] ? @ tm ? @Divinokage?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

So much Ontario on this page, I LOVE IT!

cool, maybe you can be my apprentice. hope to see you at a tournament soon

Coast you should come to Peterborough when tournaments start. First one is Apex weekend so you probably won't want to make the trek, but after that...

 

[Coastward]

So much Ontario on this page, I LOVE IT!


Coast you should come to Peterborough when tournaments start. First one is Apex weekend so you probably won't want to make the trek, but after that...

****, peterborough is far out of the way. id have to convince some people to come with me. keep me updated though, im always down to get better.

 

[Renth]

Spider_sense vs. gravy righ tnow

http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc

 

[Swooty]

Spider_sense vs. gravy righ tnow

http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc

Poor Spider Sense

 

[tm]

cool, maybe you can be my apprentice. hope to see you at a tournament soon



so im about to give you some bad news; ganon has very little out of shield options. you have:

• roll
• spotdodge
• wavedash out of shield
• up b out of shield

theyre still good tools to escape pressure, it just choosing the right time to use one of these so that you dont get punished. you can also shieldgrab too, but its more of a risk compared to the others.

as for spacies, im gonna call in @ Renth cuz i think he plays the MU fantastically.

you forgot upsmash OoS! D=

jk

And rather than giving peach advice, I commission @ Эикельманн [РУС] to write a peach guide, which he should have done a long time ago imo.

 

[iRanch]

Looks like I have Chillindude, gaR, and Zero Omega in my Apex pool.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

****, peterborough is far out of the way. id have to convince some people to come with me. keep me updated though, im always down to get better.

Will do.

 

[Coastward]

notable players in everyones pool:

@ tm - tai, the lake, merck
@Divinokage - qerb
@Bizzarro Flame - sol, mike haggar, big wenz, s0ul?
loki - literally no one i can point out, but there may be hidden bosses.
dragmire jr. - dr.z, chainace, nightmare
@ Эикельманн [РУС] - no one i know either, maybe tagless kyle? (never heard of him)
@ RedmanSSBM - warriorknight, DCscribz

 

[RedmanSSBM]

LMAO someone from GA stole my tag but left the E off hahaha.

Yeah that's not me @ Coastward I'm not going to Apex.

Tagless Kyle is actually a really solid Marth from AZ. Took a game off of Westballz iirc

 

[Coastward]

LMAO someone from GA stole my tag but left the E off hahaha.

Yeah that's not me @ Coastward I'm not going to Apex.

Tagless Kyle is actually a really solid Marth from AZ. Took a game off of Westballz iirc

WOW WHAT A PUNK *****

good to know though, im always interested in learning about players.

 

[-ACE-]

@ tm be careful vs thelake. Try to really maximize your spacing vs Zelda.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

you forgot upsmash OoS! D=

jk

And rather than giving peach advice, I commission @ Эикельманн [РУС] to write a peach guide, which he should have done a long time ago imo.

Thanks man. I wish I had a computer for several hours to do this lol

 

[Linguini]

Going to a tourney tomorrow, going to play ganon instead of my scrub secondaries....I suck now but should be fun lol

 

[iRanch]

Going to a tourney tomorrow, going to play ganon instead of my scrub secondaries....I suck now but should be fun lol

See you there.
Just don't go fox again

 

[PseudoTurtle]

@spider_sense your combo DI could be improved a bit vs falcon. I noticed gravy was kinda carrying you across the stage at times. Did you get to play shiz in any friendlies? That would be a match I'd like to see haha

 

[tm]

@ tm be careful vs thelake. Try to really maximize your spacing vs Zelda.

I've played him several times. He usually opts to ganon ditto actually.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Going to a tourney tomorrow, going to play ganon instead of my scrub secondaries....I suck now but should be fun lol

Pretty sure this isn't the first time I've heard this from you lmao.

Would it kill ya to get yourself recorded a bit maybe? Even if you are rusty, I'd still like to see some footage.

 

[Coastward]

guys i got 2nd at my weekly, almost won it all too.

i need you guys to go over 2 sets though, they were too close. my profile pic was me ledge teching bairs and ****.

+$40 richer.

www.twitch.tv/sheridansmash/b/615088414?t=2h24m28s - vs falco
* www.twitch.tv/sheridansmash/b/615088414?t=3h40m20s - vs sheik/falco
* www.twitch.tv/sheridansmash/b/615088414?t=4h20m26s - vs marth
* www.twitch.tv/sheridansmash/b/615088414?t=4h46m40s - vs marth/falco

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Okay so I just got back from super nebulous.

Wrecked my pool. Got first seed, beating Emukiller and Kuja 2-0

Then in bracket I barely lost 2-1 to zanguzen, and right after I lost another tight set to PC Chris, also 2-1. Gave me 25th. :/ sorry guys.

In money matches, I ended up beating Green Ranger, Mike Haggar, dizzkidboogie, Captain Smuckers, and Niko.

 

[SwiftNinjaBlackMan]

Okay so I just got back from super nebulous.

Wrecked my pool. Got first seed, beating Emukiller and Kuja 2-0

Then in bracket I barely lost 2-1 to zanguzen, and right after I lost another tight set to PC Chris, also 2-1. Gave me 25th. :/ sorry guys.

In money matches, I ended up beating Green Ranger, Mike Haggar, dizzkidboogie, Captain Smuckers, and Niko.

Dammit i should have went to super neb today i heard everyone was there

 

[Yort]

Friends i'm pretty pumped right now because I managed to beat an A tier Georgia player on stream.

Could you guys please analyze this set for me? And possibly the one I have against N64 after?

I really want to know any sort of bad habits people notice. Also bad option select. It is tough looking back on my own footage and noticing my specific bad habits.

http://www.twitch.tv/typohousegames/b/615461981?t=6h46m25s

Thanks lots for your time

 

[Laharl's_Wrath]

Okay so I just got back from super nebulous.

Wrecked my pool. Got first seed, beating Emukiller and Kuja 2-0

Then in bracket I barely lost 2-1 to zanguzen, and right after I lost another tight set to PC Chris, also 2-1. Gave me 25th. :/ sorry guys.

In money matches, I ended up beating Green Ranger, Mike Haggar, dizzkidboogie, Captain Smuckers, and Niko.

I watched your MM with Smuckers and Dizz
the games against smuckers were super entertaining, playing him is why I'm horrified of falcon

but I was on tilt super bad the entire night, I'm really not sure I have it in me to stick with ganon it gets so damn frustrating and I know the time would be better spent on another character

but goddamn watching good ganon's is just the best thing ever, it's so damn fun to see
he's such a polarizing character

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I watched your MM with Smuckers and Dizz
the games against smuckers were super entertaining, playing him is why I'm horrified of falcon

but I was on tilt super bad the entire night, I'm really not sure I have it in me to stick with ganon it gets so damn frustrating and I know the time would be better spent on another character

but goddamn watching good ganon's is just the best thing ever, it's so damn fun to see
he's such a polarizing character

DUDE wtf. You were there? Why the hell didn't you say hello?!?!? Now I'm sad :/

@Superspright text me dude we gotta meet up. 321 297 3177

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Yort Right off the bat against dashdancedan I see that you get too impatient in neutral and you tend to try and double jump toward him and hit him. It's like you really badly want to hit him and he just waits for you to land just out of his range and then punishes you. You gotta play more patiently and defensively than that. Wait for him to do something first before you react. Don't get overwhelmed (easier said than done).

Against his Falcon, you played alright in neutral, but I didn't see dan go for any basic Falcon things that really work on Ganon, nor were his punishes up to par, so keep that in mind. Also, remember to upair Falcon when he's off stage and only bair if you know the bair will kill him. You want Falcon to go down. Sleepyk was right about your movement though, you were moving pretty well, but it seemed to me that you weren't very confident about what move you should use when. Confidence in situations can lead to opportunities and punishes to take a stock, remember that.

Also, don't shield so much in neutral. I know these top tier characters can be scary sometimes, but don't go into your shield out of fear. Putting yourself into shield just makes things hard for you to get out of. Instead, you should be moving around your opponent and plugging their holes with a move when you spot the opportunity and react, especially if you can get a grab off of them. Like, you should really only shield if you're about to be hit by a move that could kill you directly, like Falcon just running and kneeing you. Basically, just move around your opponents attacks and don't get scared into your shield and try to shield-grab, I've fallen victim to that many times and it's a crappy place to be in.

Theoretically, you should be ledge-teching every single time someone tries to attack you when you're recovering and trying to get to the ledge. People shouldn't be getting away with this, as all you need to do is just before you're about to get hit, you press both Y and R or L to buffer a tech and a wall-jump tech, and then you bair right afterwards or you up-b, depending on the situation, but most of the time you'll want to bair. If you're fast enough with the bair after the tech, you can even just airdodge back on stage. The key to nailing this down is timing the SDI. Think about it as though you're reacting to getting hit, instead of anticipating it. Like, as soon as the attack comes out, that's when you should smack that control stick into the stage and get that tech. If your SDI is strong enough and well-timed enough, people will respect you on the edge more.

Sleepyk is right in that you really shouldn't be wavelanding around the stage when you have an edgeguard opportunity. You really are just letting them back on the stage when you could just pressure them on the ledge and eventually take a stock. Your back should almost always be facing away from the ledge, so that you can upair, bair, or grab the ledge at the appropriate times. Even being on a platform above the ledge is good because you can drop down with a bair or upair if you time it right and react to their recovery.

Don't down-b in neutral. Just don't do it. It's too slow of a move for it to do what you want it to do, which is catch people off guard and put them off stage. It's really reactable on stage and easily punished. I can see doing it on the edge after ledgehopping is a nice mixup, but don't do it too much. I'm talking to you too @ Coastward . You down-b way too much.

Now, granted, I only mentioned the things that I didn't see that you should do, and the things that I did see and you shouldn't do. There were a good few moments where you did something I saw that you should have done. So don't think that all of my criticism is all negative. You're really not half bad, you just have some things to work on.

 

[Laharl's_Wrath]

DUDE wtf. You were there? Why the hell didn't you say hello?!?!? Now I'm sad :/

dunno I was feeling antisocial as ****

 

[tm]

Friends i'm pretty pumped right now because I managed to beat an A tier Georgia player (dashdancedan) on stream.

Could you guys please analyze this set for me?

Right away:
Good job prioritizing stage control
Gotta respect the shine more, DDD so far always did aerial->shine on your shield, and you always tried to act immediately after the aerial. Shine patterns are real, so take note of his pattern to know when it's safer to act.
Continuing...
Don't try to shieldgrab fox upsmash (unless you SDI it in), instead try wavedash jab (you have to be fast) or upB. Wavedash grab if you are frame perfect, or think that he isn't going to roll / spotdodge / shine.
When you escape pressure by rolling, sometimes you immediately put your shield up again, essentially putting yourself back into the bad position that you escaped from. Try not to shield again until you are certain that his attack will hit you, and often it's better to jab or ftilt (depending on the spacing), even if it trades.
When he's offstage (as any character) you shouldn't give him ledge for free. Even though it's super risky to go out there, it can be completely worth it if you guess right. (You get a kill, and now he's afraid of going for the 'safe' option, and will potentially go on stage more, which is easier to cover) I suggest watching n0ne.
You need a bit of work on your edgeguards. Falcon's is especially coverable, and he should die every time that he's significantly offstage. You should never grab ledge when he can potentially land onstage, just cover both options with the late uair (even if you are on ledge, you can still do this with ledgehop uair). Save grabbing ledge for when he's too far or low to make it on stage, and ALWAYS grab ledge in this situation.

Overall I'm impressed
Especially stage control.

 

[SwiftNinjaBlackMan]

man that was almost some crazy ****