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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Yort

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
168
Location
Georgia
Are there any videos of an in tournament Ganondorf successfully chaingrabbing a spacie to death or for large percentages consistently?

Which Ganon players have the ability to consistently chaingrab spacies so far? is it something I should spend alot of time practicing?
 

GanonMaster

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
127
Location
Trondheim, Norway
NNID
Dragmirejr
yo dude, watch out for nightmare in your pool.

he's a buddy of mine and the latest winner of our arcadian. we play often so he's been getting a strong grasp on the MU, but we still go even.

have fun :)
Well, I mostly use Peach now, but thx for letting me know ^^
If he won an Arcadian I need to play seriously well lol
 

Bwmat

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
665
some more vids if anyone cares. I feel like I played pretty lousy on stream, as compared to in doubles/pools, although my pool was noobs. tfw you 3/4-stock 2-0 everyone in pools and then almost lose your first bracket match (edit: actually, I did, I meant set xd).

Only player here you might recognize is Sion, in the second match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTbFBp43ISk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8GZIBm55OU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJP_a2tN_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlXlKo_vNwE

These guys were saying I'm the best ganon in canada, and that I'm better than Kage, LMAO. They don't listen to me when I disagree.
 
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Bwmat

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
665
Also, I went all-ganon in singles, except against a ganon-main, where I went fox. (I main ganon/ secondary fox)

I felt kinda bad, but damn it, I have no anti-ganon experience, and I'm scared of him, since I know what he's capable of. Although I suppose that should imply I know his weaknesses well...

How much of a **** am I?
 
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X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
what?
ure not supposed to grab it grounded
the obvious perk to the way im doing it is so u can stay mobile while grabbing
I meant I'd jump to grab it, but then he'd either hit me with a nair as soon as I had it or I'd be forced to land and shield to avoid getting hit.
 

Эикельманн [РУС]

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
5,263
Location
Orlando/Владивосток
okay so i'm just gonna post all of my matches at once

vs HugS, Paragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wLDxabmzbs

vs M2K (sheik and marth), KiT grand finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HeB18J76P4

vs Iori (peach and falcon), KiT losers finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoSNBvRCgEY

vs ESAM (samus and fox), KiT losers semis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twU5UENHBKc

vs stingers (peach), KiT losers quarters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY7ZIMbeSzA

vs M2K (sheik and....pichu), winners semis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcZ1VIrXPGE

goddamn. lots of matches. i would absolutely love some critique on the following matches:

anything with sheik
vs esam, game four
vs axe

all other critique is absolutely welcomed, but that's my personal priority.


Are there any videos of an in tournament Ganondorf successfully chaingrabbing a spacie to death or for large percentages consistently?

Which Ganon players have the ability to consistently chaingrab spacies so far? is it something I should spend alot of time practicing?
yes. watch my vids vs spacies, specifically my sets with rice.
 
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Superspright

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
1,334
Are there any videos of an in tournament Ganondorf successfully chaingrabbing a spacie to death or for large percentages consistently?

Which Ganon players have the ability to consistently chaingrab spacies so far? is it something I should spend alot of time practicing?
Spacies is hard, but probably not impossible. Barely anyone puts in the effort because it requires frame perfect execution. And you have to do it something like 15x a chaingrab at least including pummels. It's more reasonable to learn how to do it at higher percentages where you can use your pummels and down-throw to refresh a kill move for an earlier kill. It's still worth trying to learn how to do it at the lowest percents.
 

Yort

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
168
Location
Georgia
Sucks finding out Kage might not be able to attend Apex. Please get better Kage I really have been incredibly excited to see you threaten the gods again.

Also I saw this today:


I love your optimism and reading this made me feel much better with my ****ty decision making and character selection choices, but do you really think Falco Vs. Ganondorf is a 50-50 in the current melee environment? I thought this was just an opinion presented by Linguini forever ago because Falco players had not fully developed their pressure game or Linguini was just a monster at the match up.

Sleepyk seems to think it's significantly harder for Ganondorf than Falcon, which I disagree with.

What are you reasoning's for this match-up being an even one?
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
U must not be spacing it right
Thats why u drop turnips instead of throwing them so u can aerial after
that would actually explain it then. all the times i got punished were from me throwing a turnip, trying to aerial, and getting beaten. although sometimes i've gotten punished after dropping the turnip. but that's probably just due to somewhat poor spacing.
 

Эикельманн [РУС]

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
5,263
Location
Orlando/Владивосток
Sucks finding out Kage might not be able to attend Apex. Please get better Kage I really have been incredibly excited to see you threaten the gods again.

Also I saw this today:


I love your optimism and reading this made me feel much better with my ****ty decision making and character selection choices, but do you really think Falco Vs. Ganondorf is a 50-50 in the current melee environment? I thought this was just an opinion presented by Linguini forever ago because Falco players had not fully developed their pressure game or Linguini was just a monster at the match up.

Sleepyk seems to think it's significantly harder for Ganondorf than Falcon, which I disagree with.

What are you reasoning's for this match-up being an even one?
no reason, just a feeling. don't listen to me. if it's not even, it's close to it.

What should I look out for?
peach takes 9 years to pull one turnip, so any mid/close range turnip pulls are free hits/grabs for you. peach players, even the best in the world, pull turnips at very unsafe ranges because they underestimate how fast he can punish them for it. utilise the platforms as best you can because her jump ALSO takes 9 years to hit it's peak, and so there's really no way she can punish you for camping top platform.

oh and be really patient when peach is recovering. understand that you have the advantage and that it's a field day for you when light characters are above you. most of the time peaches are going to slowly try and fit there way back in on stage, but you can wait it out and throw out a bair or uair to intercept them upon recovery. don't fast fall them, just let them sit out there as slowly as possible.
 
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RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
@ Эикельманн [РУС] Эикельманн [РУС] I decided to critique your 4th match vs ESAM.

@14:15 You double jump to try and dair ESAM. Dair is too slow in this situation and it's really easy for Fox to just put out a bair and stuff it. Best option here would have been to fade back and wait for ESAM to try to come at your with something. You take a lot of percent as a result of this little mistake. Use your double jump wisely when off stage.

@14:28 What was that full-hop fair? Did you think he was going to jump? An instant upair would have covered him on both the ground and in the air.

@14:38 That bair seemed pretty predictable and easy to spot-dodge. Would have probably been a better idea to not try to attack him while coming down and instead reset to neutral, especially with you being at such a high percent.

@14:46 Notice here how you're not even off of the ground to hit Fox with the dair. This looks like an attempt for a hard read. Would have been easier to just wait for him to tech and react to it, as Fox's tech roll is slow, and teching in place can be reacted to with a grab.

@15:03 You commit super hard here with a Wizard's Foot. You lose the stock because of this. I suppose you did it because it looked like Fox was about to land, but it looks like you forgot about his double jump. Keep that in mind. I still think it's hella risky and unsafe to down-b in neutral, so I recommend not doing it unless you got Fox in a corner on the way down with no jump, that way you cover a lot of options he has.


@16:00 Again, I feel like you committed too hard with this down-b. You were not at a good percent to do it at either. It was slow and react-able, and it's easy for Fox to just up-smash you and while you're in lag. I don't recommend doing this when you are over kill percent. Maybe when you're at a low percent and your opponent is high, but not like this.

@16:07 There's no excuse to not tech that ****. Anticipate and Tech that down-smash, punishing him with a bair, and then get back on stage with an air-dodge.

After you finally took the first stock, things just got bad from there, as you kept trying to just rush Fox, which is really easy for ESAM to deal with. He camped you a little bit as well. I feel like you could have gotten more out of that last stock of yours.

Overall, I didn't see you grab Fox enough to put him in a tech-chase situation. I only saw like one bait where you baired, auto-canceled, and then ftilted him when he tried to go in. You didn't go into your shield so much in neutral, so that's at least something good, but I feel like you didn't threaten him with your space enough to force out a reaction and punish it with a grab or dair or something. Grab Fox, get him off stage, and edge-guard him. You're probably going to want to full hop more because Fox's short hop game is ridiculous, and you don't want to be messing with that.
 

Linguini

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
4,698
Location
Weston, Florida
I always held the thought that matchups should be judged on how they are played at the highest level of skill. In other words, ganon vs falco is close to even when both players know the opposing matchup extremely well. At thhe mean level of play, i'd say its a 60-40 matchup, same with fox.

Doing the cg in spacies is great but you will miss eventually, and miss out on a techase jab setup or di trap that could've killed them. There's just so many better options imo

@ n0ne n0ne tell them I say whatup! talk about a throwback
 
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X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
Doing the cg in spacies is great but you will miss eventually, and miss out on a techase jab setup or di trap that could've killed them. There's just so many better options imo
i said something similar to this awhile ago itt but ace or someone made the point that optimally you won't miss and therefore it is the best option because of that.
 

Coastward

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
1,560
Location
Pumpkin Hill
have any of you guys ****ed around with double jumping on a platform > jab/grab rather than wavelanding?

it saves a few frames (a lot actually) so its definitely faster, but getting the double jump right so that you actually get the saved frames is in a tight window.

also, i think im gonna recreate a VOD thread and just build a giant library there.
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Lol. I have always said base your use of the cg off your own level of mastery of it. As soon as you think you could miss a regrab opt for the techchase instead. Can't be missing regrabs.

Coast: yeah FP dj'ing to jab/grab onto lower platforms is fast as **** (land lagless). Situational but yes there is nothing faster.
 
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