Renth
Smash Hero
I offered to teach him after so that makes it okay
-
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
I always give advice when I win and ask for it when I lose. I think that should be standard practice.
Renth
Smash Hero
He said what should I work on I was like ... I .. Just play a lot dude and if you wanna learn you are welcome at my place
Renth
Smash Hero
I'll be on stream agAin next
spider_sense
Smash Champion
lol Good luck Mark, one of these days I'm going to go up to your locals when you think its free and surprise the **** out of you.
cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
I hope to make a Mark in the toronto scene! Coast and none would be my ganon buddies!
Renth
Smash Hero
Jiggs is reallly boring to fight
o m f g
o m f g
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Correction Jason. You AND me gonna surprise EVERYONE. Lol
tm is becoming one of my favorite Ganon mains quickly.
tm is becoming one of my favorite Ganon mains quickly.
Renth
Smash Hero
he won my heart the first time I met him, guys a bro.
Renth
Smash Hero
"surprise" guys Spider_Sense is here, the tournament is now even easier
Renth
Smash Hero
@ 2 hours and 48 min
Grand Finals. Renth vs. Yamaneko
http://www.twitch.tv/lunacy_renth/b/580831505
Sorry for the quality guys, my streaming equipment is not very good.
Grand Finals. Renth vs. Yamaneko
http://www.twitch.tv/lunacy_renth/b/580831505
Sorry for the quality guys, my streaming equipment is not very good.
Nice. Sick ass ledge play and grab game. When you're walling him, try messing around with n0ne's signature full hop double bairs too!
Also when you upB onto stage, watch out for that rest. I made the opposite mistake that you did: I would DI down expecting the rest (so I can come back and punish) and get baired and die, lol. But if you're ready, you can hold down (+away) (to DI the rest), then as soon as he passes through you (if he decides to bair instead, as it will take longer) switch your DI to up (+in)
WINK ;)
Thankful for today
Is anyone here going to Shuffle in November? I'd really like to play some good Ganon's.
There is one Ganon in Kentucky...... me.
There is one Ganon in Kentucky...... me.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
spider_sense
Smash Champion
It's ok, after Ace knocks me into losers, I'll see you in GF. Then give Ace the money #hired assassin status. =P
TM is getting godlike. Out of the newcomers, I like skytch, Caps, and Tm.
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cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
Sorry Jigglysir, you too!
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lol jason. I can ditto but I need to get on your level on the important matchups. That consistency.
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Divinokage
Smash Legend
Should only do it much later imo or only if they ask right after they lost. If you tried to do that right after I lost, I'd be quite mad. Losing sucks man. Just say gg and move on, giving advice at that point is like adding salt to the wound.
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
News Flash: Skytch and CAPS LOCKE are the same person; me. I just got premium and changed my name to my smash tag a while back LMAO.
Moy
Where's the coffee cake?
So here's the set of me getting steamrolled by Gravy.
http://youtu.be/uRi3PKDkxnQ?list=UUqLYyPcx0tOY5MuOhLvKISw
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I go Falcon game 2 because why not, but if anyone wants to give me advice on the ditto (@
n0ne
) that would be cool.
http://youtu.be/uRi3PKDkxnQ?list=UUqLYyPcx0tOY5MuOhLvKISw
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I go Falcon game 2 because why not, but if anyone wants to give me advice on the ditto (@
n0ne
) that would be cool.
n0ne
Smash Ace
K, i saw it already , but ill study it when i get home and post laterSo here's the set of me getting steamrolled by Gravy.
http://youtu.be/uRi3PKDkxnQ?list=UUqLYyPcx0tOY5MuOhLvKISw
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I go Falcon game 2 because why not, but if anyone wants to give me advice on the ditto (@
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
I should clarify- I only do this to new players, not close matches. In the close matches, I know they know what they did wrong (and usually, they are salty). New players go into it thinking they will lose, so they aren't as hurt when they do. In any case, I shake their hand and say, for example, "watch those shield grabs, ganon can space anything out of your range," etc.
Spidey, lol yea skytch and caps are the same person. Hahaha Caps, loving your new sig.
@
Moy
I'll watch it after my exam and give you some feedback.edit: **** my exam
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PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Actually, I can give you some advice right off the bat.
First off, you guys struck to FoD. Typically, this is regarded as a good stage for ganon vs. falcon. The reason I dislike it is because those platform heights really screw up some of ganons areals. Obviously, there are ways around this (different spacing, different move choice and placement, etc.), but you didn't really seem to mix it up based on the stage. Some of the stuff you did would have worked, had it been on a normal stage. I would say first thing is be familiar with the matchup on that stage before striking there.
Ok, first hit. Not too much you can do here, falcon is quick. You kind of have to read that he's gonna come in and gravy is known for his aggro play. Once you get hit, you have to DI out, but at zero, the grab is pretty much guaranteed.
When you landed back on stage and he regrabbed, your DI was exactly what it needs to be. Out and down. So good stuff there.
As soon as you died, you kind of retreated back to the center. He was way out of your range and obviously wasn't even feeling pressured. You're invincible during this time, so you should really make the most of it... not even necessarily to hit him, but just to put him in a bad spot- make him jump on a platform, put him in his shield, etc.
You should tilt more. F tilt and high angled ftilt both are extremely good for walling out falcon, the latter being the best for stopping his areal approaches. You can also just CC that nair too when he's coming in and throwing that out. A lot of his nair approaches were actually a little reckless and punishable by crouch cancel. At 0:20, ftilt would have stuffed him.
You spammed that bair a lot. It's good in this matchup, no doubt, but at 0:43, you kind of threw it out, and I think you must have known it wasn't going to connect. If anything, you want to do it right after he crosses up your shield (to prevent HIS areals or a grab follow up). But when it's so late like that and you're already out of shield, there's no reason to get in the air. Just tilt if you think he's going in.
At 0:48 is the perfect example of what I was saying about your stage choice. You threw out areals onto the platform and put yourself in a really bad spot. At 0:53, that was a crazy grab haha, but I'm sure you already know that.
1:14, you jabbed the back of his shield. This is great, and you should honestly just keep jabbing. Falcon has the same ****ty options out of shield as ganon does and that wavedash he did after was not safe had you kept up with the jabs. So, yea, spam jabs and wait for the roll behind... Could be a free grab.
At 1:16, when you threw out the bair, that wasn't a bad choice, but you landed and ran away. There are 2 problems here: the first is that you actually had him in a tight spot and could have kept up pressure with tilts etc. but you ran away (which brings me to the second problem). So, the fact that you ran away here kind of shows that you don't have too much experience vs falcon. Falcon is fast (you know this) and he has a crazy amount of range. As soon as gravy saw you running, he just took advantage of the fact that he knew you couldn't possibly be safe.
I think you just need matchup experience and stuff like that. You missed quite a few openings and made some questionable decisions regarding move placement etc.
^ All of the above is constructive criticism, by the way lol. I still think you're an awesome player with a lot of potential.
Yo, regarding tm. Dude is so legit, at big house, he leveled up hard. I took like 2 matches off him... out of many. His matchup strats are very unique and efficient. Sawyer, if you worked a little bit on your speed, you'd be a force to be reckoned with for sure.
First off, you guys struck to FoD. Typically, this is regarded as a good stage for ganon vs. falcon. The reason I dislike it is because those platform heights really screw up some of ganons areals. Obviously, there are ways around this (different spacing, different move choice and placement, etc.), but you didn't really seem to mix it up based on the stage. Some of the stuff you did would have worked, had it been on a normal stage. I would say first thing is be familiar with the matchup on that stage before striking there.
Ok, first hit. Not too much you can do here, falcon is quick. You kind of have to read that he's gonna come in and gravy is known for his aggro play. Once you get hit, you have to DI out, but at zero, the grab is pretty much guaranteed.
When you landed back on stage and he regrabbed, your DI was exactly what it needs to be. Out and down. So good stuff there.
As soon as you died, you kind of retreated back to the center. He was way out of your range and obviously wasn't even feeling pressured. You're invincible during this time, so you should really make the most of it... not even necessarily to hit him, but just to put him in a bad spot- make him jump on a platform, put him in his shield, etc.
You should tilt more. F tilt and high angled ftilt both are extremely good for walling out falcon, the latter being the best for stopping his areal approaches. You can also just CC that nair too when he's coming in and throwing that out. A lot of his nair approaches were actually a little reckless and punishable by crouch cancel. At 0:20, ftilt would have stuffed him.
You spammed that bair a lot. It's good in this matchup, no doubt, but at 0:43, you kind of threw it out, and I think you must have known it wasn't going to connect. If anything, you want to do it right after he crosses up your shield (to prevent HIS areals or a grab follow up). But when it's so late like that and you're already out of shield, there's no reason to get in the air. Just tilt if you think he's going in.
At 0:48 is the perfect example of what I was saying about your stage choice. You threw out areals onto the platform and put yourself in a really bad spot. At 0:53, that was a crazy grab haha, but I'm sure you already know that.
1:14, you jabbed the back of his shield. This is great, and you should honestly just keep jabbing. Falcon has the same ****ty options out of shield as ganon does and that wavedash he did after was not safe had you kept up with the jabs. So, yea, spam jabs and wait for the roll behind... Could be a free grab.
At 1:16, when you threw out the bair, that wasn't a bad choice, but you landed and ran away. There are 2 problems here: the first is that you actually had him in a tight spot and could have kept up pressure with tilts etc. but you ran away (which brings me to the second problem). So, the fact that you ran away here kind of shows that you don't have too much experience vs falcon. Falcon is fast (you know this) and he has a crazy amount of range. As soon as gravy saw you running, he just took advantage of the fact that he knew you couldn't possibly be safe.
I think you just need matchup experience and stuff like that. You missed quite a few openings and made some questionable decisions regarding move placement etc.
^ All of the above is constructive criticism, by the way lol. I still think you're an awesome player with a lot of potential.
Yo, regarding tm. Dude is so legit, at big house, he leveled up hard. I took like 2 matches off him... out of many. His matchup strats are very unique and efficient. Sawyer, if you worked a little bit on your speed, you'd be a force to be reckoned with for sure.
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Loving this micro analysis stuff. Esp. for falcon (one of my worse MUs). Even being reminded of effective options here and there is nice.
What do you guys think are generally good options off of grab on falcon? Obviously uthrow onto platform is great, but what if there's no platform behind him (or if you're on dreamland / FD)? I hate the fact that there's no real follow up (unless they don't know to DI behind... yum), and you can't even get ftilt. I think if they DI + tech away, you can't even catch him while he's in lag (maybe only after a certain %). If you are close to the ledge (facing stage) then you can actually do the techchase options outlined in ACE's thread, but on wide stages when he can escape with DI + tech behind, and still have decent room to move around, I feel like f/bthrow into corner might be preferable just to keep him where you want him.
What do you guys think? (This is assuming a good falcon who DIs bthrow behind and uthrow away consistently)
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Well, the first and most obvious would be to tech chase. Reference ACE's thread for this one. But there are some more cool gimmicks. If at zero / low, you can do dthrow --> jab --> regrab / dtilt, depending on how he DIs the jab (thanks, Ian). Mid level percents, you can do the kage special combo (dthrow --> jab --> fair / dair missed tech) OR you can even up throw into ftilt here.
The other day, I was even experimenting with the darkrain combo. Ironic that it could be used against falcon too lol. But you up throw --> dtilt --> fair / up air. I'm not sure about the percents, but it was at a percent where I could not follow up the up throw with an areal. It was a true combo and I did it more than once, which means it's not a silly gimmick.
When facing the stage at the ledge (if that makes sense), I think that your best option would actually be the chain grab. Ganon has a cg on falcon IF he does not DI behind. So, you can just regrab as long as you want until he DIs behind. He's now off stage and you ftilt. Easy kill.
Also, what you said about not being able to chase when they DI + tech away is actually false. Sometimes, you can just tell when they're going to tech away. I don't know how exactly to explain it, but you just know. When that happens, you can short hop, fast fall, perfect waveland and get a jab / grab / ftilt. Grab is the best and looks the coolest. But you can always jab after a grab, even at zero and if they DI behind.
My grab game vs falcon is very solid (if I do say so myself) and it really needs to be if you want to win the match. The winner of the match is very much determined by who gets more grabs and who uses them better... especially since falcon gets automatic up throw knees at above like 80%... lol.
The other day, I was even experimenting with the darkrain combo. Ironic that it could be used against falcon too lol. But you up throw --> dtilt --> fair / up air. I'm not sure about the percents, but it was at a percent where I could not follow up the up throw with an areal. It was a true combo and I did it more than once, which means it's not a silly gimmick.
When facing the stage at the ledge (if that makes sense), I think that your best option would actually be the chain grab. Ganon has a cg on falcon IF he does not DI behind. So, you can just regrab as long as you want until he DIs behind. He's now off stage and you ftilt. Easy kill.
Also, what you said about not being able to chase when they DI + tech away is actually false. Sometimes, you can just tell when they're going to tech away. I don't know how exactly to explain it, but you just know. When that happens, you can short hop, fast fall, perfect waveland and get a jab / grab / ftilt. Grab is the best and looks the coolest. But you can always jab after a grab, even at zero and if they DI behind.
My grab game vs falcon is very solid (if I do say so myself) and it really needs to be if you want to win the match. The winner of the match is very much determined by who gets more grabs and who uses them better... especially since falcon gets automatic up throw knees at above like 80%... lol.
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X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
that's some good info turtle. i've struggled hard on getting followups off a grab vs falcon. ace's tech chase thread has helped me some, but i'm finding i need to guess a lot more vs falcon than the space animals and my guesses are wrong most of the time. gotta work on that.
Totally missed this post. Yeah, I'll be at shuffleIs anyone here going to Shuffle in November? I'd really like to play some good Ganon's.
There is one Ganon in Kentucky...... me.
Alright, thanks. Not sure why I thought dthrow->jab didn't work. Extremely skeptical about uthrow -> dtilt comboing though.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
With @
PseudoTurtle
talking about using shorthop waveland as a tech-chase, I really want to start using that, cause I feel like it can be really optimal and it'll look super smooth. I'm pretty consistent with shorthop perfect waveland, so I want to try to implement this into my tech-chase game. I already use side-b a lot for tech-chasing.
Also, I'll be analyzing some Ganon vs Falco footage on my stream in a little bit.
PseudoTurtle
talking about using shorthop waveland as a tech-chase, I really want to start using that, cause I feel like it can be really optimal and it'll look super smooth. I'm pretty consistent with shorthop perfect waveland, so I want to try to implement this into my tech-chase game. I already use side-b a lot for tech-chasing. Also, I'll be analyzing some Ganon vs Falco footage on my stream in a little bit.
Coastward
Smash Lord
http://www.twitch.tv/showdowngg
i think bizz is gonna be playing here at around 2am EST. top norcal players.
i think bizz is gonna be playing here at around 2am EST. top norcal players.
Renth
Smash Hero
People at the tournament i went to last weekend were like omg you move like bizzaro flame. i was like bro. I've been doing this since 2005 Bizzaro is a new born baby compared to how long I've been playing he's just more main stream.
They were all like WOoOOoOooOOooOo
They were all like WOoOOoOooOOooOo
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
most people don't know other good ganon players exist outside of kage and bizz. it's quite sad. more ganon players need to become mainstream!
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
Analyzing Ganon vs Falco Matches http://www.twitch.tv/skytch
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
in due time.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
http://www.twitch.tv/skytch/profile Here are the twitch highlights of me analyzing Kage vs Falcos at Apes 2014. They will be uploaded to YouTube soon.
WINK ;)
Thankful for today
:D Sweet! I hope to see you there! Get some friendlies?Totally missed this post. Yeah, I'll be at shuffle
Alright, thanks. Not sure why I thought dthrow->jab didn't work. Extremely skeptical about uthrow -> dtilt comboing though.
Yeah, that's true. Sadly. :/
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
You guys probably think I'm of full **** when I say this (can't really blame you), but I WILL update that thread. I have been working 12 hour days in the sun, manual labor and I've been sick for the past week. I'm just beyond dead when I get off right before dark. In the next week or so I'll try to type some more **** which will hopefully answer some of the questions I'm seeing lately.
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spider_sense
Smash Champion
It's all good Ace, feel better man.
LOL I had no idea CAP and Skytch were one in the same, makes perfect since. I also forgot to put Psuedo on that list; he's gotten really legit as well.
LOL I had no idea CAP and Skytch were one in the same, makes perfect since. I also forgot to put Psuedo on that list; he's gotten really legit as well.
Superspright
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,334
Drink more water, eat more carbs, and eat more protein [especially this]. You won't be (as) tired. I'd see being tired after a 16-18 hour day, but 12 hours is not that bad no matter how physical it is aside from professional level fighting/sports. I used to do 16 hour days 5 days a week sanding gym floors. The sander weighed about 20 pounds and had lots of power so it was always trying to run away on you. That was the only time I was really tired from physical labor. The only thing that would make it easier was drinking a lot of water, and eating a lot. If you weigh ~180 you should be eating around 4,000 calories a day if you're doing that much physical labor.
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