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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

spider_sense

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lol Nothing wrong with talking about other fighters. I think you learn quite a bit from learning other fighters; it can easily incorporated into smash and even benefit characters such as Ganon. SF is very footsies based, correlate that into into smash and awareness and spacing will triple imo.
 

Divinokage

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lol Kage, you should play the people in my region. Flash Metroid is ridiculous. Thank God Ryan Hunter showed me some **** with Cody, now I at least put in some serious work. (2nd best cody in FL) lol
Ya I've seen some of Flash Metroid stuff, really like his Gief.. omega troll. But ya I definitely agree that playing SF increased my footsies a lot. Ganon benefits from that tremendously.
 

spider_sense

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Also, since we're on the subject. You guys should really check out James Chen's first attack series. I'll post a few useful links that'll help you guys out.

How to think during a match -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePaAjTEJYh4&list=UUwmE_eVPPvQ4bjJqguhyUcg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOw_mvwEyiM&index=26&list=UUwmE_eVPPvQ4bjJqguhyUcg

The fighting game strategy ladder - (It covers all fronts of what to expect when you play any fighting game from beginner to advance)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZRIsAH5tQ0&list=UUwmE_eVPPvQ4bjJqguhyUcg&index=46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04RUvZyXAuU&index=45&list=UUwmE_eVPPvQ4bjJqguhyUcg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrMJreIybwI&list=UUwmE_eVPPvQ4bjJqguhyUcg&index=44 @Pluplue <--I remember on stream you asked me why the word "fundamentals" aren't purely tied to just basics. James chen does a much better job at explaining why that is.

How to think during a match -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePaAjTEJYh4&index=27&list=UUwmE_eVPPvQ4bjJqguhyUcg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOw_mvwEyiM&list=UUwmE_eVPPvQ4bjJqguhyUcg&index=26

These guides might be exclusive to just SF players and some Marvel heads, but all of the information he provides is applicable to smash as well. Give these vids a look, it's time consuming sure but very worth it at the end. Smoke a blunt while you watch. lol
 

Divinokage

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i guess so if it was that glaring to you LMAO

when i played his falco, it was the best i've ever played against it.

and im DEFINITELY gonna watch those first attack videos when i get home. screw studying for midterms.
Indeed it's pretty obvious to me. =P You could have converted MUCH harder in general even on that 1st stock. =)
 

Linguini

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Dakrain undefeated against ganon? That is false my good sir, I beat him back in 09. In fact, I usually stomped on darkrain you can ask him yourself haha. He's actually mad cool doe...and still my fav falcon...and he's going to **** me up at that tourney
 
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X WaNtEd X

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how many of you consistently time your jumps so that you land on the platform without the landing lag? just realized that i've completely ignored this aspect of movement. went back and watched some videos and noticed that kage and eikelmann are godly at this.
 

PseudoTurtle

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Wanted, it's really not that difficult lol. If you can waveland on the platform, you can land lagless... it's the same timing. Or you can press down as you air dodge, in case you mess up the timing. Or, yea, you can waveland if you wanna look like a boss.

You beat darkrain linguini? I had no idea. I remember talking to him years ago when I first started and you came up and he said you were his favorite ganon, but never mentioned anything about losing to you.

Ian, loving your sig lollll. But spidey's old one is still my favorite.

P.S. darkrain is everybody's favorite falcon
 
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X WaNtEd X

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Wanted, it's really not that difficult lol. If you can waveland on the platform, you can land lagless... it's the same timing. Or you can press down as you air dodge, in case you mess up the timing.
i'm not saying it's difficult, but i think applying it correctly is difficult.

i already waveland into the ground when i want to land lagless on a platform without moving around. that's not something new to me. what i'm interested in, and correct me if i'm wrong (i don't have a way to test frames) but it feels like i can get drop into an aerial faster from a perfect landing without a waveland than i could if i wavelanded into the ground and then dropped into an aerial.
 

Linguini

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Nah, because the waveland is actually faster due to ganon's size and the way he curls up in his jump. He's too big of a target to be jumping on platforms in close combat at least.
 

cptjiggles69

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What about landing and then immediately dropping through? Kind of like platform footsies to bait them coming on the platform.
 

PseudoTurtle

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Yo there's definitely a reason to waveland and a reason not to. Like anything else in this game, really. When I played with Ripple, I used to waveland way too much, so whenever I got on a platform, he just fsmashed (as marth) for max punishment. So after like 10 fsmashes (lol) I finally got the hang of it and just landed on the platform, waited for the fsmash (it came) and dropped through with a bair.

This is only one situation, but yea it can be used, just gotta look at what your opponent is doing.

Jiggles, yea you can sort of do that, but no good player is really gonna willingly get on the platform from the ground... From the air is a different story, but ganon sucks when he's above you, so they're gonna take advantage of that and hit you from below. That's not to say you can't bait out other things by being on a platform though.

You can waveland off into up air also if they're way above the platform. It makes them think that you're gonna stand on the platform or go in hard to attack, but you waveland off and immediate up air. Kage does this sometimes and it's pretty beast.
 
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Divinokage

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Yo there's definitely a reason to waveland and a reason not to. Like anything else in this game, really. When I played with Ripple, I used to waveland way too much, so whenever I got on a platform, he just fsmashed (as marth) for max punishment. So after like 10 fsmashes (lol) I finally got the hang of it and just landed on the platform, waited for the fsmash (it came) and dropped through with a bair.

This is only one situation, but yea it can be used, just gotta look at what your opponent is doing.

Jiggles, yea you can sort of do that, but no good player is really gonna willingly get on the platform from the ground... From the air is a different story, but ganon sucks when he's above you, so they're gonna take advantage of that and hit you from below. That's not to say you can't bait out other things by being on a platform though.

You can waveland off into up air also if they're way above the platform. It makes them think that you're gonna stand on the platform or go in hard to attack, but you waveland off and immediate up air. Kage does this sometimes and it's pretty beast.
Well I listened to PP a while ago when he talked about the top platform. There's certain things you can do with it in order to attack in an angle if the opponent commits by jumping first to get you. It's actually very good and definitely helped me to add a little more to my game. There's very few characters that can chase you from that high which means it's a high risk to do for them to go get you. If they do get one hit on you then generally that's all there are going to get.
 

Coastward

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man, watching those first strike videos actually makes me understand the game so much more now. so many things that i wanna try, thanks for the links @ spider_sense spider_sense

i also wanna play SF now LMAOO
 

cptjiggles69

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Well I listened to PP a while ago when he talked about the top platform. There's certain things you can do with it in order to attack in an angle if the opponent commits by jumping first to get you. It's actually very good and definitely helped me to add a little more to my game. There's very few characters that can chase you from that high which means it's a high risk to do for them to go get you. If they do get one hit on you then generally that's all there are going to get.
I remember scar commenting on a ganon and didnt know that ganon can jump to the top platforms lol. Surprised the crap out of him
 
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cptjiggles69

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He also said amsa's yoshi could t touch m2k or something like that lol and amsa proceeded to wreck face
 

X WaNtEd X

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Yo there's definitely a reason to waveland and a reason not to. Like anything else in this game, really. When I played with Ripple, I used to waveland way too much, so whenever I got on a platform, he just fsmashed (as marth) for max punishment. So after like 10 fsmashes (lol) I finally got the hang of it and just landed on the platform, waited for the fsmash (it came) and dropped through with a bair.
but i'm not talking about wavelanding in the sense that you necessarily move anywhere with the waveland. what's the point in perfect landing on a platform when you could just waveland in place on it and be able to still drop through faster? i believe that's what linguini was trying to tell me. i still don't know if it's true; it certainly doesn't feel that way. perhaps i'll make another video tomorrow to illustrate what i'm trying to say here.

Jiggles, yea you can sort of do that, but no good player is really gonna willingly get on the platform from the ground... From the air is a different story, but ganon sucks when he's above you, so they're gonna take advantage of that and hit you from below. That's not to say you can't bait out other things by being on a platform though.
actually i think he's pretty good on the platforms sometimes. adding on to what kage was saying, there are matchups like samus where coming down with an aerial pretty much beats out everything.
 
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-ACE-

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The waveland is a better option generally, but you have to wait out the initial landing animation before you can do anything (obviously this is only a matter of a few frames). Example: ledgehop jab vs ledgedash in place + jab... ledgehop jab is faster.

Occasionally I will land lag less into a move but it's very situational. If you're under the lower platform on BF, and jump + dj immediately, you will land lagless. If you were to FP shield drop, it's seriously almost as fast as holding down the whole time and not landing at all.
 

spider_sense

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Guys quick question. I was playing a few sets with smilez and porkchops and I discovered something, while running if you input the moonwalk command but holding the stick diagonally downwards and press A right after Ganon does a quick jab. Now, my interpretation I think it's much much faster than running hold down to stop and then pressing A. I dunno, someone else test it out for me. Which do you guys think is faster? If someone gets on stream later I can get on and explain it there as well. @ Renth Renth
 
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Coastward

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Guys quick question. I was playing a few sets with smilez and porkchops and I discovered something, while running if you input the moonwalk command but holding the stick diagonally downwards and press A right after Ganon does a quick jab. Now, my interpretation I think it's much much faster than running hold down to stop and then pressing A. I dunno, someone else test it out for me. Which do you guys think is faster? If someone gets on stream later I can get on and explain it there as well. @ Renth Renth
i think @ RedmanSSBM RedmanSSBM found this a few months back.
 

Spralwers

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrMJreIybwI&list=UUwmE_eVPPvQ4bjJqguhyUcg&index=44 @Pluplue <--I remember on stream you asked me why the word "fundamentals" aren't purely tied to just basics. James chen does a much better job at explaining why that is.
I'll watch the others eventually, just wanted to say this was awesome, especially where he does talk about fundamentals. I see so many non high level smash players talking about needing to work on their fundamentals, when really, they should just be focusing on learning about as much of the game as they can, and getting that tourney experience, and the fundamentals will build from there. When fundamentals translate to your performance between different games, it's a sign there is a lot more to them than just the "basics" as we come to think of them.
 

iRanch

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Guys quick question. I was playing a few sets with smilez and porkchops and I discovered something, while running if you input the moonwalk command but holding the stick diagonally downwards and press A right after Ganon does a quick jab. Now, my interpretation I think it's much much faster than running hold down to stop and then pressing A. I dunno, someone else test it out for me. Which do you guys think is faster? If someone gets on stream later I can get on and explain it there as well. @ Renth Renth
The analog stick registers that it's at a low enough y-axis to crouch, but not low enough to d-tilt. I use this for my cc jabs and to do fast jabs since it will cancel them for you. It's pretty common knowledge now.

Theres a ****ton of images that explain the stick sensitivity and what you can do with them. Lets see if I can find them.

Edit: Found them http://imgur.com/a/2na5b#0
 
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RedmanSSBM

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Skytch said:

"Another cool thing that I think could help Ganon a bit would be that while you are in your run animation, if you do a quarter circle from the direction you are running into down, and then right after that quick quarter-circle motion you hit A, you immediately jab out of your running animation. I think it can be really helpful cause jab is freaking 3 frames and running jab I think has good potential."

Coastward replied:

"just tried this out and holy **** is it good. i think you gotta bring your control stick back more than a quarter circle, but its still powerful. this can definitely help mix up pressure and just stop jumping fox nair approaches and stuff like that. now calling this "The Skytch Punch"."

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-wreck-es-with-ganon-linguini-q-a-thread.215432/page-348

Yeah I mentioned this back in mid-June @ spider_sense spider_sense

I've done it a few times in some matches and it's really useful to just throw a jab out of you running lol. People don't expect it, it seems. It's a little more than a quarter circle, and you can't do it too fast, but if you do it right, you'll pretty much just jab right out of that running animation. You can even string jab into running jab into running jab for extra hilarity. :)


I definitely think it is way faster than taking the time to duck and then Jab. Plus it's kind of easier too.
 
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Эикельманн [РУС]

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The analog stick registers that it's at a low enough y-axis to crouch, but not low enough to d-tilt. I use this for my cc jabs and to do fast jabs since it will cancel them for you. It's pretty common knowledge now.

Theres a ****ton of images that explain the stick sensitivity and what you can do with them. Lets see if I can find them.

Edit: Found them http://imgur.com/a/2na5b#0
you're already better at talking about the game than i am omg x_x
 

GanonMaster

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I guess that is kinda the same thing as doing wavedashes from the ledge with pressing down and towards the ledge to fall (not fastfall)

That is my strat for wavedashing form ledge lol
 

tm

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i'm not saying it's difficult, but i think applying it correctly is difficult.

i already waveland into the ground when i want to land lagless on a platform without moving around. that's not something new to me. what i'm interested in, and correct me if i'm wrong (i don't have a way to test frames) but it feels like i can get drop into an aerial faster from a perfect landing without a waveland than i could if i wavelanded into the ground and then dropped into an aerial.
no-impact landing is definitely faster than wavelanding, no question. so yes this absolutely has uses (doing an attack immediately, dropping through / jumping immediately...)

With the run into jab, you don't have to bring the joystick back to jab, you can just input crouch for [1?] frame then let go and press A, and you will jab.

As in ranch's post, http://imgur.com/a/2na5b#2 you can see that if you hold the joystick down and behind, you will jab (as long as you don't release the crouch and start to turn around).

If you wait a few frames (3 or 4?) after beginning the crouch, the window for smash attacks end, and the jab area on that diagram extends downward a bit more (to the dtilt threshold). This way you can CC into jab without moving the control stick by holding down + away (at the joystick 45 degree notch). Possibly nice for reacting quickly to a move to CC, although I think in most cases simply letting go of the joystick to jab is just as good (unless you got hit again during your jab and you wanted to CC that hit into something else... lol)
 

PseudoTurtle

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@ spider_sense spider_sense I think you can just momentum cancel jab (dash --> down on control stick --> immediate jab) and that would definitely be faster than moonwalking haha. So, basically what tm said, but without that frame knowledge. And yea, what he said about the 45 degree angle to auto jab without having to get out of your cc is a weird aspect of the game... Did you know that ganon could jab cancel like fox (although still not safe on shield)? Just do what tm said, hold the control stick down and away at 45 degrees and you can actually jab faster. Not particularly useful as it still isn't safe on shield, but I definitely have to try it out of a cc. I don't like dtilt when I mean to jab out of cc.

Also, how do you typically do against smilez? I played him at big house, I imagine you do pretty well. He seemed like he knew the matchup (and now I know why). He 2-0'd me, but it was one of those really close 2-0's. Chill guy.
 
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spider_sense

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Ah true, I was thinking more along the lines of techchasing with that jab, I just want the flexibility to harass someone's shield or just run at them and slap them in their ****. lol

Yeah, Psuedo; Smilez knows that MU well because of Emilio and I. I usually take the majority but we haven't ran into each other in bracket for awhile, I was beating him alot last night, but I know friendlies don't matter, and yeah Dwayne is a great guy, glad you two got to chill.
 
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