Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

maaaaaaaybe lol

anyone here mess with smash 4 ganondorf at all?

I played half a stock with him, felt that he was worse than Brawl Ganondorf and went back to playing real characters

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I played half a stock with him, felt that he was worse than Brawl Ganondorf and went back to playing real characters

he feels way better to me. i can actually do stuff. might be the physics system and that everyone else is worse, though.

also @chitown ganondorfs, gravy is my roommate so ya already know he gets mad ganondorf practice in lol

 

[Divinokage]

Gonna have some good vids from today's tourney. =D Learned a lot.

 

[n0ne]

maaaaaaaybe lol

anyone here mess with smash 4 ganondorf at all?

Me

 

[Coastward]

not enough shield stun in the game for me to enjoy ganon.

he's not bad, its just that the game feels like it needs to be played defensively and that sucks for him.

also dair is impossible to follow up with, and bair isnt disjointed.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Yesterday I met a local Ganondorf main, gave him a bit of advice, and told him to come to this forum. His tag is GUTS and I hope he joins us here soon.

 

[Divinokage]

So before the vids come out I think being the best in Mtl is within reach. I beat Pkm 2-0 with Falcon vs Marth in winners semi, then I lost to Bam 2-3, the wins were with Falcon/Ganon vs Falco. LF I 3-0 Pkm again all Falcon vs Sheik. Then in GF I got 1-3, my win was with marth this time and my Ganon got 4 stocked. >_< lol. It hurts.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Dude you'll beat Bam soon enough. Release those vids soon, cause I'm planning on analyzing a bunch of Ganon vs Falco matches on my stream a little later today.

 

[Divinokage]

Edit: The guy has the vids.. whew!

 

[n0ne]

What is the main thing you guys focus on in the neutral game?

Bait them to roll, bait them to use their second jump

 

[Divinokage]

Bait them to roll, bait them to use their second jump

What the.. those tactics generally only works in the corner and even then.. Good players won't give you either of those that easily.

The other options would be to condition them in shield by using grounded moves/aerial moves a lot then finally punishing them with grabs. If it looks like you are going for grab too much then you're the one getting aerialed into combos. Have to mix up, counter-attacks, baiting jumps, shields and grabs. Finding the right amount for all of those is depending on your opponents habits. There's also spotdodge that is more relevant for some characters, in that case you use delayed attacks, don't be too hasty. =P

 

[GanonMaster]

oh gawd I tried Ganon vs. Falco yesterday, couldn't cg him at all x.x

EDIT: Lost 2-1 :/

 

[-ACE-]

Lmao man the cg takes practice. What method are you using to jc grab? Any videos?

 

[GanonMaster]

no vids yet, will post asap

I generally just shieldgrabbed him since he makes some tech errors. But he rekt me in neutral and I didn't punish him hard enough. also my powershielding was awful and I missed a couple of platformwavelands.

also, what do you all think about Falco mu on FD? I find it kinda hard!

 

[Coastward]

2-0d everyone in my pool.

played 1 bracket match and won 2-1.

i feel the triforce in me. will post updates.

won my second match, 2-0d a falcon. that MU is too HARD.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

no vids yet, will post asap

I generally just shieldgrabbed him since he makes some tech errors. But he rekt me in neutral and I didn't punish him hard enough. also my powershielding was awful and I missed a couple of platformwavelands.

also, what do you all think about Falco mu on FD? I find it kinda hard!

Call me crazy, but I definitely think it's winnable on FD. Several times in tournament and in some serious matches with Falcos, I would not ban FD and ban Pokemon instead as a bait.

Taking Falco to FD is risky, but it can be worth it for several reasons.

1. Falco's horizontal approach game is really bad and he really has to rely on lasers to hit you. You can ****ing flip over the lasers if you do a backwards short hop and flip over that lol. Just learning to deal with lasers on FD is the only real hard part.
2. I believe Falco's combo game is diminished on FD cause there are no platforms to easily tech-chase on. On Yoshi's the platforms are small enough where if Ganon gets daired onto them, Falco can easily follow up anything Ganon does unless he gets a ledge-cancel from falling off. On FD, Falco has to guess where the Ganon is gonna go, giving you more room to get out of his shenanigans.
3. Edge-guarding Falco is much easier cause he can only go for the ledge or go on stage. He doesn't have as many options for recovering.

Getting a grab on Falco on FD is pretty much death if you get the right reads. Here's a good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT04quyyVkY

 

[spider_sense]

I would say start going for chaingrabs when Fox/Falco are at around 35-50%, I usually jc grab the way I've been taught (z + dash and Y) I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate boost grabbing though, It's tricky but I find it work really well vs other characters with extended hitboxes. Heck, I was even able to do a boost grab on Marth while facing the other way. It's actually really good come to think of it.

@ GanonMaster - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsNbCkzRF-s

 

[PseudoTurtle]

The falcon matchup is great! Keep playing it and you'll start to realize how awesome it is. But clearly, you know what you're doing if you 2-0'd the guy.

I love the combos on both ends.

Spidey, the boost grab actually has a hitbox behind ganon (according to Tipman). That's why bizzarro flame will sometimes moonwalk after wavelanding and then getting the grab, as opposed to just waveland grab... I think. But whether intentional on his part or not, he moonwalks for that backward hitbox and it definitely increases the grab range.

 

[GanonMaster]

doesn't upthrow cg at lower percent? or is that a thing I just hve in my head lol.

also, nice cg Spider

 

[GanonMaster]

also, thx for tips CAPS. I did actually ban PS for him to go FD. Then my plan was to go peach and cg him, but he just picked the stage without asking so I thought "why not try, this should be possible!". Then I failed to deal with his lasers and lost, like I said

 

[Coastward]

finally lost a match, fox mu gets on my nerves sometimes. so close to winning too.

 

[spider_sense]

LOL, that wasn't me GanonMaster. I'll still take the compliment since I've always adored Magus's Ganon. Anyways word Psuedo? I'll have to try that out next time, there's got to be some fun in that mixup. Waveland moonwalk pivot boost grab to pivot uair? Sounds pretty legit if you ask me. haha

Falco on FD isn't terrible, it just works both ways. I think all the neutral stages are Ganon has vs Falco is pretty even; maybe with the exception of Dreamland. I think the best way to deal with Falco's laser pressure is just to keep track of them and really only focus on the ones that hit you. I'm actually am trying to powershield the lasers then wavedash out of it for maximum zoning.

 

[Little Pac]

maaaaaaaybe lol

anyone here mess with smash 4 ganondorf at all?

I really wanted to main Ganon again in Sm4sh, but he just isn't fun to me. The Twilight Princess design, the abysmal dash, clunky animations, and slow speed just aren't my cup of tea.

 

[-ACE-]

I am too drunk and full of dank seafood to comment. I got another infraction. I'll belittle teczero later.

 

[Divinokage]

I am too drunk and full of dank seafood to comment. I got another infraction. I'll belittle teczero later.

Too drunk? lol.. well I had a few drinks already to celebrate some improvement. *cheers*

 

[-ACE-]

Lol half a 5th of scotch and 4 ipa's.

Jason lets travel the world and make it hale on haters. (Toss quarters not dollars) lmao.

Like a BOSS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU9TouRnO84&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[X WaNtEd X]

speaking of improvement, i won my first real tournament today. it was a vermont local with about 40 some-odd entrants. didn't drop a game until grand finals. and i got third in teams. none of this was one stream, but there was a recording setup that i played on quite a bit so i'm going to have some videos for yall to critique soon.

you canadian players should go down to vermont. it is free money. i took away $200 from this and i'm not even that good (yet). really not sure whether to be proud of this or be ashamed i didn't win the tournament by a larger margin. regardless, those benjamins feel nice and crisp.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Man. It's gonna be a while before I win a local tournament.

 

[Divinokage]

speaking of improvement, i won my first real tournament today. it was a vermont local with about 40 some-odd entrants. didn't drop a game until grand finals. and i got third in teams. none of this was one stream, but there was a recording setup that i played on quite a bit so i'm going to have some videos for yall to critique soon.

you canadian players should go down to vermont. it is free money. i took away $200 from this and i'm not even that good (yet). really not sure whether to be proud of this or be ashamed i didn't win the tournament by a larger margin. regardless, those benjamins feel nice and crisp.

Free party $, take it while you can. =D

However for me it isnt about the $, i want the challenge instead. I cant really travel very often anyway..

 

[Coastward]

ended up getting 13th, choked game 3 against a falco while i had a 2 stock lead. defs coulda gotten top 8, feels bad.

its so hard man, so much more work needs to go in. we needa start talking about more serious metagame ****, i thinm we could all level up quickly with each other.

i dont know who brought it up, but chaingrabbing needs to be mastered. **** helps so much. dthrow mixups even make ganon more threatening as well. these revelations man...

AND ONE MORE THING, I SUCK AT SHIELD DI'ING SHINES.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I am too drunk and full of dank seafood to comment. I got another infraction. I'll belittle teczero later.

Hahahaha teczero gave it to you? He gave me an infraction way back as well. He's a p*ssy.

speaking of improvement, i won my first real tournament today. it was a vermont local with about 40 some-odd entrants. didn't drop a game until grand finals. and i got third in teams. none of this was one stream, but there was a recording setup that i played on quite a bit so i'm going to have some videos for yall to critique soon.

you canadian players should go down to vermont. it is free money. i took away $200 from this and i'm not even that good (yet). really not sure whether to be proud of this or be ashamed i didn't win the tournament by a larger margin. regardless, those benjamins feel nice and crisp.

Congrats man! Hope to see some videos from you soon since Kage's dude dropped the ball I was looking forward to it, Kage we haven't seen anything from you in a long time. Next time!

I'm almost at that local tournament win level, but there are so many ****ing good players in Chicago and there's always at least one of them there (Johns). Very frustrating. If Dart, Kels, Trail, etc. are the Chicago "gods," then I'm at hax level (speaking, of course, in relative terms... lol). It's really hard to level up past training partners, I've noticed.

AND ONE MORE THING, I SUCK AT SHIELD DI'ING SHINES.

Yea, join the club lol. I suck at SDI for basically everything, and when you're only given a frame for the input, **** gets challenging. Congrats on your placing though, man. After playing you at big house, you're miles ahead of those old videos where you couldn't edge guard a falcon

Keep it up! Hope you got some of those sets recorded.

By the way, I'll be posting bizzarro flame vs darkrain tomorrow and attempting my in depth analysis. I encourage everyone to join the party and throw out suggestions for future matchup and situational knowledge. A lot of you guys here complain about falcon, so I thought this was a good video to start with.

 

[Moy]

Looking forward to that video Turtle. I just got 3-stocked by a Falcon on Saturday in the crew battle, a player that I've taken to last match last stock before. If only I didn't random to FD...

That stage is too good for Falcon in the matchup.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Moy, why'd you random? Out of curiosity.

You make it sound like you were pitted up against him, so you had choice of stage, minus his ban, I think. I would say definitely don't pick random vs a falcon because you know that there's always the chance that you'll get stuck with FD or Stadium. I think ganon-falcon is generally pretty even on the other four stages, but unwinnable on FD.

Did you just want to 100% he stayed falcon? Because if so, that seems like a pretty risky decision unless he had a pocket fox or something.

 

[Moy]

Moy, why'd you random? Out of curiosity.

You make it sound like you were pitted up against him, so you had choice of stage, minus his ban, I think. I would say definitely don't pick random vs a falcon because you know that there's always the chance that you'll get stuck with FD or Stadium. I think ganon-falcon is generally pretty even on the other four stages, but unwinnable on FD.

Did you just want to 100% he stayed falcon? Because if so, that seems like a pretty risky decision unless he had a pocket fox or something.

It was a crew battle, all the starters were on random. Even though I don't think FD should be legal for crew battles. So it was all luck-based, really.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

In a crew battle, you still get to counter pick stage though. And then your opponent gets to switch character. Just like in tournament matches.

Unless the EXP rules are different?

 

[Divinokage]

Huh? There will be vids Pseudo, just wait!!

 

[Renth]

Woooo critique / study time with kage

 

[Coastward]

http://www.twitch.tv/evenmatchupgaming/b/579808649?t=7h16m52s heres the only bracket match i could get on stream.

shield grabbing is my biggest problem right now, i get scared in shield and i think its my only good option to get a good punish. game 2 went way better because raynEX told me to not do that ****, but then i started playing like an idiot and kept fairing while recovering. the side b flubs didnt help much either.

honestly i think i coulda gotten top 8, maybe even top 5. i just got in my head. i need to play more and really work on my follow ups from throws and shield options. kage, come to toronto more please, I NEED HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Moy]

In a crew battle, you still get to counter pick stage though. And then your opponent gets to switch character. Just like in tournament matches.

Unless the EXP rules are different?

I never knew there were official rules for crew battles - or maybe I just forgot them. What happened was, I took the last 2 stocks off a Puff while losing 1 stock, and then the Falcon came to counterpick me. Everyone was just going random stage, which was a detriment in my case. Is there a thread about crew battle rules or something?

 

[Coastward]

woops double post.