Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Coastward]

**** man, out of everyone i'm looking forward to playing at big house its @ PseudoTurtle

we shoulda teameddddddddddd

 

[-ACE-]

Joe (pseudo) is one of the coolest people you'll ever run into. Also a very good Ganon main. You guys have fun, wish I could make it.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

**** man, out of everyone i'm looking forward to playing at big house its @ PseudoTurtle

we shoulda teameddddddddddd

The feeling is mutual, my friend! It's gonna be a good tournament, that much is for sure. I don't even have a teams partner -.- this totally could've happened.

Yo @spider_sense I watched your most recent blea matches. I think your main problem is walling him out... he kind of approaches successfully when he really shouldn't. Don't get me wrong, he mixes it up quite well, but when you shield after whiffing an areal, you're not putting yourself in a good position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crMWIBdNC14

Watch this video and look at how many times he comes in on you when you could have thrown out a tilt. Or that you were just in your shield.

I don't really know the specifics of the luigi matchup thaaaat well, but I think you have to play a little less scared. Just my input, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Joe (pseudo) is one of the coolest people you'll ever run into. Also a very good Ganon main. You guys have fun, wish I could make it.

Obligatory respect post: thanks bro. I miss the Blackmon bros and we gotta chill sometime. Whether it be this summer or whenever we're around the same area (if ever anytime soon).

And real talk, when this man talks, you guys LISTEN. I think half of us ganons here wouldn't be nearly at the level we're at without the knowledge he throws down. I'm expecting GREAT things from the new tech chasing thread.

And if any of you ever have the pleasure of running into @ -ACE- , make sure you remind him to load you up on firewater... he'll know what you mean.

 

[-ACE-]

Blea is super good at punishing missed tilts. You can spam A ****ING JAB against him and get punished. You have to be very reactionary. No spam whatsoever.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yea, that's probably a pretty accurate representation of anyone versed in the ganon matchup. Ripple is the same way, you can't just throw out a tilt and hope it will hit, you have to wonder if they're gonna keep baiting it out and DDing and how to combat that.

Just one of the reasons I love playing the big man, I legitimately feel like the mind games are some of the most intricate in the entire game. You have to think at least 2/3 steps ahead. Like, one bait most of the time will not be enough to put your opponent in the position you want... sometimes you have to do one successful bait, then bait another thing out to actually punish.

Crazy stuff.

 

[Moy]

Dude, just marth killer that ****. If ever a marth is going to try to mess with your timing like that, the only option your opponent has left is to sweet spot. Even if ten doesn't sweet spot the ledge, just ledge hop --> grab --> dthrow --> bair.

I attempt to do that here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbIte-ERkKc&t=3m32s

But I am a scrub and can't even perform a simple task, like pointing the control stick in a downward direction. I end up throwing him right (WTFFFFF... this actually happens to me a lot).

...But you get the idea. If I wasn't such a noob, I would have won that game, easy.

Definite first-time-playing-on-stream johns.

Why do I keep forgetting marth killer exists? I guess I condition myself to grab ledge as much as possible when easier and safer options exist.

It's probably nerves too. It gets in my head that her training partner is the best player in the Midwest.

At least, I assume her and kels play a lot.

That was my first time doing commentary I think lol. I sucked, you can't even hear me well.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbIte-ERkKc&t=3m32s

if you had just turned your back to him and put out bairs, i swear on my life that you'd have won the match lol

also after watching the whole vid. you can't let him fair you like that. double fair is so bad these days. cc that **** and make him eat like 35%. actually just cc vs this guy more in general. you'd have destroyed him if you did.

as good as marth killer is, it's actually equally as good to mix up actually using the tool, and then faking like you're going to use it to bait them into recovering poorly. good marths will fear the marth killer. once you instill the fear and they try recovering from a certain axis, you get free ledgedrop uairs lol

marth is so free to edgeguard, it's absurd.

btw if any of you fine fellows play ranked melee netplay, see me in battle under my super secret online alias...XxXSasukeBowser69XxX.

 

[cptjiggles69]

A bit unrelated but i just realized: Ganon is the teenage mutant ninja turtles! Aside from his neutral color which could count as orange,the other colors match TMNT! Orange, purple, red and blue!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Ian, I agree completely. I played pretty sloppily that whole set in general.

I jumped way too much, I flubbed edge guards/tech skill, I DI'd SOOOOOO poorly out of fear (this is why his fair destroyed me so hard- I know it's not even a good move at all), etc. etc. the list goes on.

That was my first time playing on stream and pretty much the whole venue was watching, which has never happened to me before for tournament sets (because I was actually playing quite well that entire tournament). The only times when I've had a bunch of people watch me are during friendlies and I'm free to do silly things and experiment. I actually thoroughly enjoy it when I get a big crowd going for friendlies matches. A tournament setting is completely different and it's something I still have to get used to.

Yea, Marth killer fake-outs are legit too. Forgot to mention it. As Ian said, you can fake it, get them to recover early and get a free bair/uair. I think it was wife who said something along the lines of "ganon doesn't really have any tools to edge guard marth." I love wife's commentary... but he could not have been more mistaken here lol. There are so many things you can do to edge guard marth, and I'm sure that there are many more undiscovered tricks out there just waiting to be used.

 

[-ACE-]

I remember that comment haha. I said "what the f*ck" out loud and started laughing.

 

[Divinokage]

Ian, I agree completely. I played pretty sloppily that whole set in general.

I jumped way too much, I flubbed edge guards/tech skill, I DI'd SOOOOOO poorly out of fear (this is why his fair destroyed me so hard- I know it's not even a good move at all), etc. etc. the list goes on.

That was my first time playing on stream and pretty much the whole venue was watching, which has never happened to me before for tournament sets (because I was actually playing quite well that entire tournament). The only times when I've had a bunch of people watch me are during friendlies and I'm free to do silly things and experiment. I actually thoroughly enjoy it when I get a big crowd going for friendlies matches. A tournament setting is completely different and it's something I still have to get used to.

Yea, Marth killer fake-outs are legit too. Forgot to mention it. As Ian said, you can fake it, get them to recover early and get a free bair/uair. I think it was wife who said something along the lines of "ganon doesn't really have any tools to edge guard marth." I love wife's commentary... but he could not have been more mistaken here lol. There are so many things you can do to edge guard marth, and I'm sure that there are many more undiscovered tricks out there just waiting to be used.

What do you think about in such situations? =P

 

[PseudoTurtle]

What do you think about in such situations? =P

To be honest, I loved it lol, but I was super nervous. I think at one point on the stream, the commentator even said something along the lines of "you can hear kels talking **** in the background from here." Kels is a very loud person lol. It's a lot of fun, actually, but an environment I have yet to get used to.

The main thing that lets the viewer know that I was visibly choking was my god-awful DI. I just DI'd everything in every single time I was hit (vs marth, you should really only ever do this when getting edge guarded) and I KNEW I was doing it, but I couldn't help it, my hands were sweating, I was nervous....... basically, pick your john and apply.

@ Divinokage , do you remember when it was you, me, and kels at one setup during big house 3? For whatever reason, there was an enormous crowd that gathered during that one match that I was playing vs his falco on pokemon stadium. This was the first time that had happened to me, and during a friendly, no less... That was so cool man haha, whenever I got a good read or made a successful tech chase (one of my best skills), the crowd erupted. One guy even asked me afterwards what seed I got for bracket and he was very taken aback when I told him that I didn't even make it out of pools lol. That was a REALLY good feeling.

I guess my thought process was just "don't get bodied and make an ass of yourself on stream," instead of my usual tournament mindset of "don't whiff attacks, don't spam, and always think one step ahead."

I gotta put in some work on my tournament mentality and mindset before I can really push ahead and make a top 3 placing.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

so a little bit off topic but i just had this cool idea.

in the mlg anaheim set between m2k and pp there's a time where m2k has pp's marth right by the edge shielding. he nairs pp's shield to knock him onto the edge and is able to get a dsmash out before pp can grab the ledge from the tumbling animation because he delays the nair until he's right about to hit the ground.

i was thinking, could we possibly do something like this with ganon? what if you hit someone's shield by the edge with say a nair or uair right before you hit the ground and then ftilt or dtilted them before they could reach the edge? could you even get out a tilt in time? this would be a far more optimal way to punish someone shielding your fairs/bairs as they try to get back on the stage.

 

[Coastward]

got 13th in singles today and 4th in doubles with n0ne, coulda got 3rd but i kept killing him lmao. IM SORRY BRO

figured out my weakpoints: defensive/shield options suck and i need to set up my walls better.

the only reason why i think i hate falco is because of how much i get pressured, and all i do is shield grab. im trying to break the habit of it but i just cant do it right now. im gonna sit in the lab until bh4 and just practice WDOOS and shield drops.

 

[n0ne]

got 13th in singles today and 4th in doubles with n0ne, coulda got 3rd but i kept killing him lmao. IM SORRY BRO

figured out my weakpoints: defensive/shield options suck and i need to set up my walls better.

the only reason why i think i hate falco is because of how much i get pressured, and all i do is shield grab. im trying to break the habit of it but i just cant do it right now. im gonna sit in the lab until bh4 and just practice WDOOS and shield drops.

Np , was first time teaming anyways, just remember dorfs massive hitboxes are his downfall sometimes in dubs, yea, shieldgrabs are really punished, better to wavedash back and ftilt or instant dash attack

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I can't wait for big house to come around the corner.

Looking forward to all the money matches! (Aka when I pay bizzarro flame using coast's money )

Mandatory shots until we die after day 1 of the tourney in the ganon room (wherever that may be- gotta ask Ripple about that).
@Bizzarro Flame
@ Coastward
tm (couldn't tag you)
@ RedmanSSBM
@ n0ne
@ cptjiggles69
@ Moy

This means y'all. I may not be able to outplay you guys, but I'd put money down that I can drink you all under the table

 

[Divinokage]

I can't wait for big house to come around the corner.

Looking forward to all the money matches! (Aka when I pay bizzarro flame using coast's money )

Mandatory shots until we die after day 1 of the tourney in the ganon room (wherever that may be- gotta ask Ripple about that).
@Bizzarro Flame
@ Coastward
tm (couldn't tag you)
@ RedmanSSBM
@ n0ne
@ cptjiggles69
@ Moy

This means y'all. I may not be able to outplay you guys, but I'd put money down that I can drink you all under the table

Didn't you fail that test with me and Mango? Lol.. Too beast for you!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Didn't you fail that test with me and Mango? Lol.. Too beast for you!

If you recall correctly, he woke up in my basement floor butt naked after missing his flight out that day because of the obscene amount of alcohol he consumed the night before.... Lmao. I guess if you wanna call that a win, be my guest. FC, man. Good times. Wish you could come out to big house, Kage! It's been such a long time since we've played.

By the way, for all of you reading this, the above is a 100% completely true story. I had been acquainted with mango for all of maybe 1 hour at the time and that dude knows how to party lol.

 

[tm]

I can't wait for big house to come around the corner.

Looking forward to all the money matches! (Aka when I pay bizzarro flame using coast's money )

Mandatory shots until we die after day 1 of the tourney in the ganon room (wherever that may be- gotta ask Ripple about that).
@Bizzarro Flame
@ Coastward
tm (couldn't tag you)
@ RedmanSSBM
@ n0ne
@ cptjiggles69
@ Moy

This means y'all. I may not be able to outplay you guys, but I'd put money down that I can drink you all under the table

Lmao, you got me there (I don't drink) but we need to chill. And you probably can still outplay me (You gotta belieeeve!)

Wonder why tagging me doesn't work, kind of annoying. Maybe that it's only two characters

 

[-ACE-]

Mango is such a light weight lmao

 

[Moy]

I can't wait for big house to come around the corner.

Looking forward to all the money matches! (Aka when I pay bizzarro flame using coast's money )

Mandatory shots until we die after day 1 of the tourney in the ganon room (wherever that may be- gotta ask Ripple about that).
@Bizzarro Flame
@ Coastward
tm (couldn't tag you)
@ RedmanSSBM
@ n0ne
@ cptjiggles69
@ Moy

This means y'all. I may not be able to outplay you guys, but I'd put money down that I can drink you all under the table

I've never had a drink before, but I do turn 21 the Thursday before the tournament lol.

 

[Divinokage]

Mango is such a light weight lmao

But we downed a huge bottle of whisky only us 2.. It was rough returning home that day.. lol. And yes Mango was butt naked.. *sigh* But I got to friendly him like 5 hours that time, too good.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Haha, you guys don't need to drink at all, it was merely a suggestion. Definitely not trying to pressure and I don't wanna be responsible for an influx of drunk ganons

Yea, tm, it's most likely because of the two-letter thing. After changing your name from tmtmny, you got much more difficult to tag lol.

But we'll chill for sure.

Yo kage don't even try to play that off lololol I remember you on the whiskey, me on that ****ty polish vodka, and mango with whatever he could get his hands on... while making fun of me for being so bad at smash (which, admittedly, I was at the time. Just awful) and beating my ass while he was hammered. But I was more than keeping up and chasing with water (because I'm an idiot and forgot to buy chaser).

Kage, I was really looking forward to that Kage-Mango team after that night hahahaha.

I can't wait to see mango again... In the words of Trail, he's "out of control." Fun guy. This should be a hell of a tourney

 

[-ACE-]

But we downed a huge bottle of whisky only us 2.. It was rough returning home that day.. lol. And yes Mango was butt naked.. *sigh* But I got to friendly him like 5 hours that time, too good.

I guess it depends on your definition of a huge bottle.

Joe, you've inspired me.

http://youtu.be/6HGXs4InXhw

Mandatory Ganon taunt lmao

 

[PseudoTurtle]

LMAOOOO Dave, I love it.

Nice choice on the Dewar's by the way. I'm also mildly impressed by your ganon impression.

 

[-ACE-]

Dewar's is legit lol (No bs $28.99 for 40 shots in FL, and smooth enough to drink straight ez). Also if you think my Ganon impression is legit, try Jason's (ss) wtf that guy sounds exactly like Ganon haha.

Also kage I've drank with mango before more than once, he was probably pouring whiskey out when you weren't looking (jk, but he cannot hold his booze) Marquez if you name search this, you owe me 6 beers from pound 5 lmao. Good times at mlg tho haha.

 

[-ACE-]

BTW. I've been working on the techchasing thread. It's going to be more expansive than my OP led you to believe. Chaingrabbing also. This is all on a notepad app on my phone so bare with me guys.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

This is all on a notepad app on my phone so bare with me guys.

Top tier dedication

 

[Coastward]

do you guys have any mario tips? anything helps since i actually don't know **** against the ****ing plumber.

 

[Superspright]

out-range him...

 

[-ACE-]

Lol I have been playing some mario lately. He's basically been my secondary for the past month. He has so many options vs Ganon it's absurd. You can't sleep on any of the plumbers as Ganon.

Remember that he's weaker when he's facing you because of his fair. And his bair blows @$$ compared to Doc's (Doc's bair sends you much lower and has more stun... deadly even with perfect DI). His utilt going to pop you straight up (Doc's sends you up and out) so be ready to DI that away unless it puts you far offstage, since going offstage is insta-death (Cape). Mario also has great combo's vs Ganon out of dthrow (even uthrow at low%) and also can chaingrab ganon at really low% and then combo. Be patient and savor your grab opportunities (dthrow to uair). In general, face backwards against him and wall him out with well-spaced bairs, without making it obvious that you rely on bair. Uair works every time he is above you, all mario can do when he is above you is dair (uair will trade with this and you profit) or try to drift away from you and space a bair. Remember he can also cape when above you to suspend himself temporarily, which can bait your uair and get him a punish. In the neutral game he can sh bair and waveland afterward which is sneaky, and so is his uair approach, which you must DI away. Never get greedy edgeguarding him. Abuse your ledge invincibility to the max with invincible ledgedrop uairs when goes low, and invincible ledgehop uairs when he gets over-confident with the priority of his up-B.

 

[Ripple]

I've never had a drink before, but I do turn 21 the Thursday before the tournament lol.

I'm buying you all the shots

 

[Linguini]

All ganon mains smoke bud...that's a pre req. Remember kage at tipped off on that hill LMAO

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Good info, ACE. My first tournament win was against a mario, but he wasn't the best lol. I've never actually had to play a decent level mario... I actually have an unsettling lack of experience vs. Mario and his pill-popping counterpart.

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that dthrow can also lead to fair and upsmash (at certain DI's and percents).

Yo Dave, when that tech chasing thread is out, I'm probably gonna look at the chain grabbing section until my eyes bleed. I lose to the WORST sheik players. Like embarrassingly bad sheik players. This needs to stop happening.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

All ganon mains smoke bud...that's a pre req. Remember kage at tipped off on that hill LMAO

If we're ever in the same area, I'm gonna light you up and money match you until I'm good vs space animals.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Happy to say that I played a scrubby sheik in tournament at Tipped Off 10 and I didn't lose easy peasy.

Good sheiks are hard as **** though dear god.

I learned a lot at Tipped Off 10. Here's hoping the next 2 weeks I can get my tech-skill and neutral game to be much better for Big House 4.

 

[Moy]

I'm buying you all the shots

Thanks man lol.

Back to fighting Marth again, I've made friends with a pretty decent Marth player on campus (the only person I've found who plays Melee competitively), and spent a good 3 hours yesterday playing friendlies.

Made it a priority to focus on edgeguarding, I see what you mean by the effectiveness of marth killer @ PseudoTurtle . Of course, his recovery was pretty predictable, so he never really mixed it up too much to rely on ledgedrop uairs.

Basically, I'm working on crushing the soul of every Marth player I face. My record against him lately hasn't been up to par.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

That's good to hear, Moy haha. Marth players need to learn that recovery is not free vs. ganon. I strongly believe that Marth is ganon's easiest edge guard-able character besides ganon/falcon. You'll start to realize that once you have a strong edge guard game vs. Marth, the matchup becomes wildly easier. Once I was able to edge guard Ripple with decent consistence, I stopped losing to his Marth as often as I did. It's actually one of his characters that I can now go near even with, along with his Samus... I still have problems with his spacies, shiek, and DK though lol go figure.

Another thing I may have forgotten to mention- uair. Learn how to do an auto-cancelled uair and be as fast as you can with it (without accidentally upsmashing). No more fair/nair spam on your shield when you have a quick and solid uair game.

Yea, Marth killer is sweet. One principle I always rely on in this game is if your opponent hasn't proven yet to you that he's smart, don't assume so. If he can't adapt to your lightshield edge hog, there's no need to switch it up. But not all opponents are like this dude you met on campus, and most of them will find ways around the Marth killer. In my opinion, it's only a good tool to use when your opponent is going to have to sweet spot (or come close to it) because most players will know how to avoid it. Other times, you'll just want to use the uair spike/ledge drop uair.

Keep me posted on your Marth progress, I'm happy to be your Midwest Marth consultant lol... Trail sucks vs Marth as ganon lmao... but if you have questions regarding space animals, I'd defer to him on that one.

 

[Moy]

Thanks man. I appreciate the advice; it's also nice to have someone here who has a lot of experience against Samus.
Since Pooch is my main training partner right now, I also want to be well versed in that matchup - edgeguarding, getting around missiles, all of it.

When you say auto-cancelled uair, you mean out of shield right? Does it still work when they throw the nair/fair really low to the ground and space it well? Half the time I feel like when they do that, they're already crouching for a dtilt or gotten out a grab before I can do anything.

I would talk to Trail about matchups, but I don't see him on the boards and he hasn't been to the weeklies at EXP lately.