Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[cptjiggles69]

Against puff dthrow can lead into up smash! This is assuming no di or upair if she dis. At close to zero i think the upsmash after is almost guaranteed? Ftilt upwards is not very safe, she can throw out another aerialwhile staying out of that zone. In a sense she can stay out of ganons hits above, by being almost in ganon. Aerials must be extremely spaced. Up air back hit box is good for zoning when doing double aerials. Honestly i think a smart ganon will do just fine if he maximizes his zoning, and keep note platforms help jigs escape, fd works great as a counter

 

[cptjiggles69]

By escape i mean she can retreat to a platform and you lose options when she tries to combo you

 

[Divinokage]

Sure kage, high ftilt has it's place, more so with Jiggs than most other matchups since he's almost always approaching with aerials/playing aerial footsies. Its weaknesses are obvious, it's like a regular ftilt in most other matchups.

You should drunk rant more often. That summary of the jiggs matchup is very accurate.

Haha, perhaps I should.. I feel more open when I'm this way. No filter =D

Jiggles, if she whiffs and fades back. Why would you jump forward and challenge her?

 

[cptjiggles69]

Umm why would i challenge her? That just results in a ko....

Haha, perhaps I should.. I feel more open when I'm this way. No filter =D

Jiggles, if she whiffs and fades back. Why would you jump forward and challenge her?

 

[cptjiggles69]

Im pretty sure i never said to do that since she just wall of pains you off stage.

 

[Renth]

If Jiggs is in your face you are losing.

space her out. e z p z.

if shes close roll away she can't catch you, your roll is your best move. Ganondorf roll OP

 

[-ACE-]

I agree with everything except for e z p z. Lol

 

[Divinokage]

Umm why would i challenge her? That just results in a ko....

Well you said if you whiff an ftilt then she can hit you again which is true but theres also nothing really safe you can do in the first place. You have to take risks and trades because if you do whiff only 1 attack, that's basically the cue for her to get in pretty easily. So its not really about whiffing an attack, you have to make sure to know her tendencies and how she wants to approach you. If high ftilt will hit a certain angle Bair cannot hit for example, you should use it. But in general you need sick accuracy and you also cant really afford to get cornered close to the ledge, it really sucks. lol. Thats why the spacing game is tough, you have to be able to be precise enough where you dont give much room but at the same time she cant get close. Her hitboxes are deceptively good too, youll have to trade because beating her straight up is extremely tough since she would have enough time to weave in and out easily.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Agreed. Puff players vary in their approaches and hungrybox is god tier

 

[PseudoTurtle]

If Jiggs is in your face you are losing.

Renth, I'm actually not sure I agree with that statement. Obviously, your first line of defense is a spaced fair, upward-angled ftilt, or a bair.

But I've been playing Bieber almost since I started (easily the best puff in the midwest, hands down- kid's got results) and I've noticed that puff really doesn't have the best pressure options when she's in the air (always) and you're in shield (she's one of the few characters). I find that you can let the jiggs hit your shield and then you kind of have to guess where your opponent is gonna be/what he's gonna do, but it's an educated guess. Hard to explain, but one of your areals can hit and beat out whatever form of pressure is being applied- it's kind of like rock paper scissors.

I've noticed that he likes to just spam bair on my shield and that's a free fair out of shield for the hard read or a free uair that will either beat it out if you're quick enough or trade at the very least.

I'm doing a pretty poor job of explaining this, but
TL;DR I've never felt helpless/like I need to roll when my shield is being hit by puff's areals.

Also, from the ledge: waveland in --> buffered roll is god-like for regaining center stage.

 

[n0ne]

so i went to A&C yesterday and went a bit more Dorf this time around instead of Falcon, check out my matches and let me know what u think.

vs Toast (Peach): http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=2h49m7s
vs idea (Puff): http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=3h46m10s

i also go Dorf on the 3rd game vs Raynex here: http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=4h13m0s
btw that up b was an error, was going for Bair.

Also, just registered for TBH 4, so hyped to play all u american players there, 1st american tourney attendance btw

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i miss smash so much. someone buy me a drink. this year is going to be rough.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Haha ill be reppin canada over there! Hope i run into you man. Kind of wishing i signed up for doubles

so i went to A&C yesterday and went a bit more Dorf this time around instead of Falcon, check out my matches and let me know what u think.

vs Toast (Peach): http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=2h49m7s
vs idea (Puff): http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=3h46m10s

i also go Dorf on the 3rd game vs Raynex here: http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=4h13m0s
btw that up b was an error, was going for Bair.

Also, just registered for TBH 4, so hyped to play all u american players there, 1st american tourney attendance btw

 

[Superspright]

Kage just has the ugliest Ganondorf hands down. It works though. It does good stuff most of the time, or it gets train-wrecked ****rolled by a few players.

Locke it completely depends on platform(s) location(s) relative to where you are on stage, as well as how far away you are from the ledge. Obviously the CG is a test of your reaction speed to DI, so you set your own limit. Like say, if you we're only fast enough to CG falco once he reaches 100%. This reduces your options, but if you grab falco at 100% anywhere near the center of FD or DL64, taking them up to 140-145% and giving them the purple boot is a given KO and should always be used. 65-70% is where I could start CG'ing at when in practice, which helps. Also I believe >65% is the line where turnaround grab no longer works for DI behind, so I could just jc grab in the direction of their DI. Oddly most people DI straight left/right while being CG'd but you must be ready for partial DI also (jc grab will overshoot/whiff).

Fox same thing but harder from being #1 in fall acceleration and the fact that he doesn't pop up as high as falco when hit. It's insanely hard really. Once fox is at a % where you can CG him he should have already been dead, essentially.

Your use of the CG should depend completely on how well you have mastered it. If you feel you may drop a grab, it's best to take kage's advice and opt for an easy techchase into edgeguard.

I thought it was >59% for turnaround grab.

Renth, I'm actually not sure I agree with that statement. Obviously, your first line of defense is a spaced fair, upward-angled ftilt, or a bair.

But I've been playing Bieber almost since I started (easily the best puff in the midwest, hands down- kid's got results) and I've noticed that puff really doesn't have the best pressure options when she's in the air (always) and you're in shield (she's one of the few characters). I find that you can let the jiggs hit your shield and then you kind of have to guess where your opponent is gonna be/what he's gonna do, but it's an educated guess. Hard to explain, but one of your areals can hit and beat out whatever form of pressure is being applied- it's kind of like rock paper scissors.

I've noticed that he likes to just spam bair on my shield and that's a free fair out of shield for the hard read or a free uair that will either beat it out if you're quick enough or trade at the very least.

I'm doing a pretty poor job of explaining this, but
TL;DR I've never felt helpless/like I need to roll when my shield is being hit by puff's areals.

Also, from the ledge: waveland in --> buffered roll is god-like for regaining center stage.

Shielding is very important in this match up, but does your friend ever exploit her disgusting crouch against you? Aerially the matchup isn't so crazy on paper--it's when you add her ground options against Ganondorf's that it gets disgusting.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

@ n0ne your ganon is a ****ing monster. Keep playing on stream so I can watch more. Holy **** how have I never heard of you before?

@ S Superspright yes he does and I hate it. But it's nothing that a downward angled ftilt can't fix. I also like to empty hop (to put him in his shield and stop him moving) and then high angled ftilt when he jumps out to areal me. Or just do whatever when he shields, but I would rather anticipate the areal than go for the grab because of spot dodge --> rest.

@ Эикельманн [РУС] this message is good for one drink the next time I see you.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

so i went to A&C yesterday and went a bit more Dorf this time around instead of Falcon, check out my matches and let me know what u think.

vs Toast (Peach): http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=2h49m7s
vs idea (Puff): http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=3h46m10s

i also go Dorf on the 3rd game vs Raynex here: http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=4h13m0s
btw that up b was an error, was going for Bair.

Also, just registered for TBH 4, so hyped to play all u american players there, 1st american tourney attendance btw

Yo n0ne how do you do the full-hop bair to bair so fast? I'm not sure if that I'm not hitting the buttons quickly enough, but for me to bair that fast I have to hit Y and then immediately hit the control-stick and A and the same time really quickly, and just do that again for the second bair. What are you inputs for it? Cause that **** looks cash against Puff. That movement was amazing too. Sometimes a little unnecessarily stylish, but most of it was damn good.

 

[Divinokage]

Yo n0ne how do you do the full-hop bair to bair so fast? I'm not sure if that I'm not hitting the buttons quickly enough, but for me to bair that fast I have to hit Y and then immediately hit the control-stick and A and the same time really quickly, and just do that again for the second bair. What are you inputs for it? Cause that **** looks cash against Puff. That movement was amazing too. Sometimes a little unnecessarily stylish, but most of it was damn good.

Why do you press A? It's slow! C-stick plz!

Kage just has the ugliest Ganondorf hands down. It works though. It does good stuff most of the time, or it gets train-wrecked ****rolled by a few players.

What does that mean? Of course there are players that would destroy me, it's true for everybody. Controlling the outcome of the match is literally impossible because the game is too complicated. Sometimes I get styled on players much worse than me but then I perform a comeback every single time. If you aren't the best in the world, everybody will get ****ed hard by particular players, no escape.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Kage just has the ugliest Ganondorf hands down.

You've never seen my Ganon though

 

[Mongoose132]

Yo n0ne how do you do the full-hop bair to bair so fast? I'm not sure if that I'm not hitting the buttons quickly enough, but for me to bair that fast I have to hit Y and then immediately hit the control-stick and A and the same time really quickly, and just do that again for the second bair. What are you inputs for it? Cause that **** looks cash against Puff. That movement was amazing too. Sometimes a little unnecessarily stylish, but most of it was damn good.

I personally would use the z button for a quick aerial. You don't have to work as hard with moving your fingers. Provided you can do this without accidentally jc grabbing.

 

[n0ne]

Yo n0ne how do you do the full-hop bair to bair so fast? I'm not sure if that I'm not hitting the buttons quickly enough, but for me to bair that fast I have to hit Y and then immediately hit the control-stick and A and the same time really quickly, and just do that again for the second bair. What are you inputs for it? Cause that **** looks cash against Puff. That movement was amazing too. Sometimes a little unnecessarily stylish, but most of it was damn good.

i do it manually with control stick and A, just in case i decide to last minute bair to waveland grab for example. If i switch to c stick i cant really mix it up afterwards when i need to. Remember not to fastfall, and do the first bair as early as u can.

Oh, and i jump with Y, haha had to go check my pad cuz i always confuse Y and X despite so many years playing smash. My L and X buttons are for decoration only and for actual repair use cuz i can swap their parts with R and Y respectively after wear and tear

@ cptjiggles69 , i just registered for tbh4 yesterday, and doubles was already capped.

 

[Divinokage]

I watched vs Idea, Im kinda surprised he got hit so many times when you whiff a bair then go for another one. lol. Did he think he was safe or something? Maybe he was paying attention to one particular mixup too much then you got him a lot with waveland in grab. Other than that you overshot a few hits here and there, pretty solid otherwise. Harder to critique when you out skill someone though because he doesn't punish everything, still seems like he guesses at random almost.

 

[n0ne]

I watched vs Idea, Im kinda surprised he got hit so many times when you whiff a bair then go for another one. lol. Did he think he was safe or something? Maybe he was paying attention to one particular mixup too much then you got him a lot with waveland in grab. Other than that you overshot a few hits here and there, pretty solid otherwise. Harder to critique when you out skill someone though because he doesn't punish everything, still seems like he guesses at random almost.

i guess he was surprised of the defensive bair playstyle, guess he wasnt used to it cuz i lost afterwards in the rematch although i went falcon all the way that time

If u watch vs Toast i played a lot more offensive so i guess that actually might be the reason, cuz of the playstyle mixup

 

[cptjiggles69]

Well i'll see you there at least. Maybe we might be able to register for project m when we arrive if they don't get a lot of people

i do it manually with control stick and A, just in case i decide to last minute bair to waveland grab for example. If i switch to c stick i cant really mix it up afterwards when i need to. Remember not to fastfall, and do the first bair as early as u can.

Oh, and i jump with Y, haha had to go check my pad cuz i always confuse Y and X despite so many years playing smash. My L and X buttons are for decoration only and for actual repair use cuz i can swap their parts with R and Y respectively after wear and tear

@ cptjiggles69 , i just registered for tbh4 yesterday, and doubles was already capped.

 

[n0ne]

Well i'll see you there at least. Maybe we might be able to register for project m when we arrive if they don't get a lot of people

i actually did register for lulz for PM. Placed 2nd at a tourney in Costa Rica with no knowledge of the game. Im glad Dorf is much better in PM. Waveland to sparta kick is OP

 

[Divinokage]

i guess he was surprised of the defensive bair playstyle, guess he wasnt used to it cuz i lost afterwards in the rematch although i went falcon all the way that time

If u watch vs Toast i played a lot more offensive so i guess that actually might be the reason, cuz of the playstyle mixup

I suppose he wasn't however vs Jiggs you kinda have to play that way mostly. Im surprised because I have played Idea here and there before plenty of times and he STILL hasn't found a proper answer. I would think KK would help him or something. He's basically the only one that found a surefire way to own Ganon at that level anyway.. Like I said you are probably more skilled than Idea from the looks of it. lol.

Theres also no reason to go Falcon vs Jiggs, its a waste of potential in the matchup if you already know Ganon much better =P

 

[n0ne]

I suppose he wasn't however vs Jiggs you kinda have to play that way mostly. Im surprised because I have played Idea here and there before plenty of times and he STILL hasn't found a proper answer. I would think KK would help him or something. He's basically the only one that found a surefire way to own Ganon at that level anyway.. Like I said you are probably more skilled than Idea from the looks of it. lol.

Theres also no reason to go Falcon vs Jiggs, its a waste of potential in the matchup if you already know Ganon much better =P

The thing i AM having trouble with is WHEN to do bad DI on purpose after a rest so that u can come back quickly and punish puff on the next stock, cuz of fear of getting star KOed instead and not being able to do any damage. For example on the first stock i did bad DI on purpose but im not sure if it was worth it or just try to survive instead

 

[-ACE-]

i miss smash so much. someone buy me a drink. this year is going to be rough.

Apparently I'm not "in the know" lol, I completely ignored your post about being gone for a while since melee is like crack. why no smash? You still in FL?

 

[Coastward]

2 more weeks man...

2 MORE WEEKS

also n0ne, we still teaming this weekend?

 

[Aephage]

Hey, i'm a kinda new ganon player (I started playing last october) and I've a lot of troubles edgeguarding marth, or when he's starting a combo on me, I also have difficulties escaping from the pressure.
Here is an example (a recent match) of me vs marth: https.//www*youtube.com/watch?v=pmsVw0pmYeY&list=UU5H5mR_D8aYZNHxYKvL6S-w&index=3 (just watch the 2 first matchs, then I made a comeback with puff)
the "*" is a ".", I can't post link because i need to have 10 posts to send link haha

Could any one of you criticize me in this video, so I'll understand what I'm doing wrong
thanks in advance

 

[tm]

so i went to A&C yesterday and went a bit more Dorf this time around instead of Falcon, check out my matches and let me know what u think.

vs Toast (Peach): http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=2h49m7s
vs idea (Puff): http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=3h46m10s

i also go Dorf on the 3rd game vs Raynex here: http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=4h13m0s
btw that up b was an error, was going for Bair.

Also, just registered for TBH 4, so hyped to play all u american players there, 1st american tourney attendance btw

**** yeah dude. Will watch later, and we should play at BH4

 

[n0ne]

2 more weeks man...
2 MORE WEEKS

also n0ne, we still teaming this weekend?

sure, but lemme confirm on saturday if im actually going or not, apparently hangovers are really ugly in the cold and am not used to it yet

 

[Superspright]

Why do you press A? It's slow! C-stick plz!



What does that mean? Of course there are players that would destroy me, it's true for everybody. Controlling the outcome of the match is literally impossible because the game is too complicated. Sometimes I get styled on players much worse than me but then I perform a comeback every single time. If you aren't the best in the world, everybody will get ****ed hard by particular players, no escape.

Most people can hold their own if they pick a decent enough character and get good enough--maybe they won't win but they won't get 3-4 stocked. You unfortunately have the weakness of your character to deal with. It becomes apparent when people know how to fight you, and know how to fight Ganondorf. You already know this.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I like the idea of using Z to do the bair as soon as I jump, and then I can transition to the c-stick in that time to bair again. Also gotta not fast fall. So used to doing it lol.

Hey, i'm a kinda new ganon player (I started playing last october) and I've a lot of troubles edgeguarding marth, or when he's starting a combo on me, I also have difficulties escaping from the pressure.
Here is an example (a recent match) of me vs marth: https.//www*youtube.com/watch?v=pmsVw0pmYeY&list=UU5H5mR_D8aYZNHxYKvL6S-w&index=3 (just watch the 2 first matchs, then I made a comeback with puff)
the "*" is a ".", I can't post link because i need to have 10 posts to send link haha

Could any one of you criticize me in this video, so I'll understand what I'm doing wrong
thanks in advance

Just in the first match I can point out 3 things you need to work on:

1. Don't double jump so much in neutral. If you were to play a better Marth, he would have caught up double jumping and then comboed you to death.
2. Don't approach with fair. Marth can very easily run away from your fair and come back in to grab you. He did this a few times in the first game.
3. Don't run away too much when you have stage control. You're giving Marth the stage back and allow him breathing room. You need to put pressure on Marth by being close to him and spacing your aerials well.

You had a few nice moments where you did a retreating fair on the Marth approaching with a nair. That's good.

 

[Divinokage]

Most people can hold their own if they pick a decent enough character and get good enough--maybe they won't win but they won't get 3-4 stocked. You unfortunately have the weakness of your character to deal with. It becomes apparent when people know how to fight you, and know how to fight Ganondorf. You already know this.

Yes they can and will get 4 stocked, this game is highly volatile. Getting 3-4 stocks can happen with everybody just like Mango 4 stocked Leffen, Axe 4 stocking SW too for example. I also 4 stocked and gotten 4 stocked by players equally skilled. All you really need to do for that to happen is call their decisions repeatedly, you make it sound like thats not what's happening.. lol

 

[Superspright]

I mean people who pick better characters tend to on average not have that happen. Whereas with Ganondorf I pretty much see it all the time when they go up against someone who exploits the **** out of him, or their play style.

 

[Divinokage]

I mean people who pick better characters tend to on average not have that happen. Whereas with Ganondorf I pretty much see it all the time when they go up against someone who exploits the **** out of him, or their play style.

Ganon is pretty easy to exploit.. I do it to other Ganons too. We are not safe! lol.

 

[Superspright]

That's why it's so important to try to play as safe as possible. But, it's not really possible. We have to be uber precise in order to avoid attacks and counter-attack. They just have to aim in our general direction. It's not even fair lol

 

[-ACE-]

It's good to float like a butterfly but you have to sting like a bee too. Don't give up enough space to hinder your pressure.

 

[Divinokage]

It's good to float like a butterfly but you have to sting like a bee too. Don't give up enough space to hinder your pressure.

Muhammed Ali over here, haha.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I'm running out of patience playing vs. Puff. I'm really opting to just go all Doc in that matchup. My Most hated matchup.