Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[DrWorm]

this may have already been mentioned but is anyone planning on going to tipped off 10? I'm going and I'm looking forward to seeing some other good Ganon players and to some dittos possibly

 

[spider_sense]

If I get cash someone between now and next weekend, I'll most likely go. Even though I'm dreading the drive from Florida to Georgia. I wish my sponsorship covered food/housing.

 

[-ACE-]

I'm in FL right now. Is tipped off this weekend? I got non - smash related plans through Tuesday. Then I think I'll be working in Savannah, GA next. Could be there for a year.

Edit: 10 days? I might make it, but I doubt it.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

He and I both had some obvious mistake moments however, everything you should need to know are in these videos + the information i typed out in the other thread.

were you going for fancy edgeguards in these sets on purpose? it looked like you were trying to style a lot.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

So I played vs. my Falco friend (a different Falco friend of mine, a good personal friend as well) In two sets for a Ladder Match. First set I played pretty damn well and went 3-1, but the second set I went 0-3, and got bopped on Yoshi's Story. I had to win both sets to take his place on the ladder.

I'm starting to think that taking Falco to Yoshi's can be a bad idea by just how hard he combos you there. I'm thinking that FD could be a possible good counterpick, or maybe I just need to work on the matchup better. Yes, both sets were recorded and I hope my friend will have them up once the weekend is done.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

were you going for fancy edgeguards in these sets on purpose? it looked like you were trying to style a lot.

this guy's primary objective is styling, and it has been for like 7 years now.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Just won the Versus weeklies today.

http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/b/567309676

VS| Porkchops (Falco) 5:28

Wes Jr /Grand Finals (vs Samus) 6:03:41

My match with HuGs finally got uploaded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drB2GXi-dxQ <---This one needs critique, so please comment.

clay losing to wes jr 3-0 in losers finals is pretty absurd. i feel like he's lost to every florida secret boss now at this point. poor clay.

 

[-ACE-]

Too much counter strike. Kid is getting complacent.

Locke, YS is so good for falco. If the falco has put any practice at all into continuing combos through platform movement on that stage, their punishment game is going to be solid. The platforms are just very close together and they hang over the ledge. Mix this with shallow blast zones, and falco has a lot of options. Of course it is not a bad stage for ganon and can still be a good a good CP (cp'ing is based on more than just matchups), you just have to be weary/aware of what the stage offers.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Thanks ACE. Next time I play him in a best of 5, I think I'll try the FD counterpick. It really limits a lot of what Falco can do.

 

[Coastward]

why wasnt i getting any notifications from this thread?

i was ready to remove cobwebs.

 

[Renth]

Eikelmann and I are teaming this weekend hype

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

this is the only practice i'll be getting for big house, so yeah hopefully it goes well.

 

[-ACE-]

Thanks ACE. Next time I play him in a best of 5, I think I'll try the FD counterpick. It really limits a lot of what Falco can do.

I like your thinking. FD vs falco isn't a matchup that is learned overnight, but you're right. You should practice vs Felipe or whoever else is close just to UP your techchasing game (everyone needs work on techchasing). FD gets fun when you are good at punishing hard from a techchase.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I like your thinking. FD vs falco isn't a matchup that is learned overnight, but you're right. You should practice vs Felipe or whoever else is close just to UP your techchasing game (everyone needs work on techchasing). FD gets fun when you are good at punishing hard from a techchase.

Yeah that's something that Keith (the Falco friend) told me to do, that I was only getting like 20% of the tech-chase reads on him, and if I got at least 60% of the reads, that I could consistently beat him. This means that I do end up getting a lot of grabs, I'm just not capitalizing on them hard enough. I gotta get into my opponents mind better. Is there like a system to reading techs? Or do I have to do it by basing what my opponent's tech habits are? Can I determine their pattern from the first three techs that they do? Should I try to go for the regrab more?

Getting the grabs is one thing, properly reading is another, I still don't think about it enough.

 

[-ACE-]

There are a lot of things that go into techchasing... can't really go over all of it right now though. If you are really good at getting grabs you could punish under 50% of techs and still beat a high level player. Getting grabs means a lot too. It's almost like getting more rebounds in bball. Another chance!

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I know about your tech-chasing thread, ACE, but I'm talking about getting into your opponents head and manipulating them to tech the way you want them to, or at least getting the reads most of the time. If you could elaborate on that at all when you have time, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Divinokage]

this is the only practice i'll be getting for big house, so yeah hopefully it goes well.

Should probably let Renth and Bizz edgeguard off-stage while you stay on stage if ever that opportunity presents itself in general. I'm going to guess they are both pretty offensive all together so they would need a support/tank. =P

 

[Coastward]

might actually not be able to come to big house

money is looking really tight right now with school and stuff, and one of my buddies bailed on the trip making it more expensive for me to go. i'm still gonna try my very best to come, i can get a straight answer thought soon.

 

[Renth]

@ Эикельманн [РУС] I tried to respond to you on Facebook but it would not let me. The answer to your question yes

Also, email is strenkomark@yahoo.com

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

not going to be around for a while. should be back in time for smash 4. hold it down for the dark lord, guys.

 

[Renth]

GG.

Boss called me into work no tournament for me.

 

[Superspright]

I hate that ****. I had one guy tell me he was gonna need me the weekend of Zenith and he never called me. I wanted to break his neck.

 

[-ACE-]

I know about your tech-chasing thread, ACE, but I'm talking about getting into your opponents head and manipulating them to tech the way you want them to, or at least getting the reads most of the time. If you could elaborate on that at all when you have time, that would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah bro I know. I can go more in depth but I'm busy and only have my phone. You are motivating me to make a thread on techchasing metagame/theory.

@ spider_sense I'm miami bound bro. Call you later

 

[s0teric]

Yo played in a tournament today. I'd say I'm progressively getting better. Made it out of my pools and at least won one bracket match. Had close matches otherwise, too. Took 2 stocks off of darkatma's peach, but idk if he was trying too hard. Unfortunately no recordings, but I feel encouraged to improve!

 

[-ACE-]

So, if I had a keyboard (I'm the king of johns) I would have a rough draft already typed, but this is the general layout of the techchasing thread I'd like to create in the near future. Like any other thread I've made, I encourage comments, questions, or really any contribution. Section 1 would need some specifics on knockdown percentages (@ S Superspright @n0ne your help would be appreciated) and Section 2 will need specifics on techchasing metagame and theory (@ Renth @ Divinokage @ Эикельманн [РУС] @ spider_sense @PseudoTurtle and anyone else, feel free to suggest anything). It would lead to some good discussion and benefit everyone I believe).

1. Creating techchasing opportunities

.....a) Grabs (dthrow/uthrow)

.....b) Jabs/tilts

.....c) Dair, nair, and other aerials


2. Making the best of each opportunity

.....a) Understanding your opponent's options

.....b) Decision making (HUGE)

..........i) Recognizing your opponent's habits

..........ii) Multiple option coverage versus hard reads: when and why

..........iii) Hard reads: How to make an educated guess when you must guess

..........iv) Conditioning your opponent: leading them into a false sense of security to influence their decision making

.....c) Maximizing punishment

One thing is for sure, I want this thread be thorough. What do you guys think? Potential?

 

[tm]

*snip*

****.
YES.

please.
so much

 

[-ACE-]

tm I will need your help also. Whenever possible I'll include video examples to eliminate any confusion. I encourage others do do the same when they feel it is necessary.

 

[Superspright]

Knockdown percentages for what? Crouch-canceled attacks, or just like the tilts and whatnot with neutral DI? I don't have access to a copy of melee at the moment. We do need to have a reference point to work from.

Let's get down some specifics so we can start working on this compendium.

 

[-ACE-]

It's not all up to me. You are asking the right questions. I need stuff like that so I don't forget ****. If this thread was all my words and input, it would be a minor success at best, and I'd like it to be a major one for the G boards. I want anything and everything. It'll be a bit before making the thread.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Linguini could add to this too right? Maybe get tipman as well? And yes -ACE- This is what we need!

 

[Superspright]

So I guess you're basically asking for an info-dump...and then we'll sort through it and then we should polish something up. Okay. I'll see what I can do ASAP. I'll have my friend come over with his copy tomorrow and test stuff out.

 

[-ACE-]

I mean, I'm sure RockCrock could help too but I'm targetting the people that post. Of course (@ L Linguini ) Emilio could provide insight, he may be rusty but he has a bigger bag of tricks than any other ganon imo (shutouts to tipman, but I don't think we'll be seeing him really soon).

Yes, SS. info dumps is what people like lol. It'll be a work in progress once it is created.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

So yesterday I got 3rd at a local tournament and made a bit of money because of it, only losing to $mike's Marth (he didn't play Falcon for some reason, but I did take a game off him) and I lost to a really good Falcon player from WCU named Nebs.

The only real significant victory I had in the tournament was over Ocean, an ICs main from Boone. I met him first in Winners and 3-stocked him game 1 and 2-stocked him on game 2. I played the ICs matchup pretty well and when I separated the climbers I was pretty good to keeping them managed.

When I met Ocean again, he went Mario instead and took the first game off of me even though it was very close and down to the last stock. Then I figured him out and did retreating fair a whole lot and kept hitting him for coming in. The last game I 3-stocked him finishing with an uptilt

I then played against Nebs and he rocked me hard game 1 with a 4-stock. Game 2 was much closer cause I took him to FoD and almost had a comeback, but then Game 3 on Yoshi's I got bopped again and got 3-stocked. His punish game was really on point when he got a hit in the neutral game. I'm thinking of a Sheik counterpick for Falcon if I run into trouble with a Falcon again.

Yeah bro I know. I can go more in depth but I'm busy and only have my phone. You are motivating me to make a thread on techchasing metagame/theory.

That'd be great man. Hope you can get to a computer sometime soon.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol I remember nebs from like 8 years ago. I'd love to play him now.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ -ACE- I started a knockdown percentage thread back in July, but I only did it for Fox. You could use that as a reference. Want me to also do it for Falco and Falcon?

 

[-ACE-]

@ RedmanSSBM Locke that would be sick. Greatly appreciated. Compile some info and get it ready. You've got time.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Maybe we could get like jab on shield vs empty jab frame difference, or hoe fast the jab is vs other quick moves? Also any tips for hax dashing with ganon?

 

[Linguini]

In terms of precise percents and anything having to do with frames i'm clueless lmao. For techniques tho I can def. provide some input.

Most of that tech info is on the boards already you just gotta look for it.

 

[-ACE-]

I'll add a little twist to this thread don't you worry :evilgrin:

 

[Renth]

Watching a lot of Kage videos

A lot of our arrogance is really unwarranted. If you combine all other Ganondorf mains accomplishments and match them next to kages his credentials will probably blow the whole lot of us away.

#timetostartpayingrespect