Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RaphaelRobo]

Your doc sucks.

Didn't you beat Sprankles? The only relevant Puffs in NC are me and him and Brad.

Come to Raleigh and I'll teach you how to fight Puff.

 

[spider_sense]

I'll do a write up about extensive Puff play sometime in the near future whenever @ -ACE- makes his thread. Btw, I see you lurking Dave. Hmu I'm bored! lol

 

[Divinokage]

The summary of the Jiggs matchup wasn't enough? Whats the main problem for you then Locke?

 

[spider_sense]

Honestly, I just realized I have a lot of trouble with fighting floaties (except Peach, she's one of my best MU imo) so I think figuring the schematics and floaty mechanics of say Puff, Samus, Peach, Luigi (especially Luigi lol) would help us all out. Those characters can't be comboe'd like the majority of the cast, so let's figure out our moves of choice and discuss the neutral game. Ganon should be dominating most of the floaties not getting bodied.

 

[Coastward]

i swear everyone is good against peach except me.

besides her, i think i fair pretty well against floaties.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

The summary of the Jiggs matchup wasn't enough? Whats the main problem for you then Locke?

I'm not patient enough. I keep trying to go in thinking that I got him figured out but then that doesn't become true. He keeps getting away with bair and then retreat. I mess up my grabs a lot, I allow puff to get in too much and I don't space myself well. I get easily frustrated when my lead is quickly taken by a rest. Whiffing anything and getting punished for it feels like a freight train hitting me because getting in those hits is crucial. It's so annoying to throw out like 5 aerials and none of them hit and then you just get baired and ****. I have better patience with most characters except puff. I want to play this matchup better, but God does it really test my patience. I am almost always guaranteed to lose to a Puff if I'm not in the correct mindset to be patient.

It wasn't a "real" match per say, cause it was a ladder match. The real matches are if we meet in tournament. I've beaten him so far, but it makes me worried about other Puffs who are probably better than him.

 

[Moy]

Been going to the weekly tournaments at EXP Gaming in Oak Park pretty consistently all this year, and have been going all Ganon recently. Unfortunately, lost in losers a second time to Ten, a Marth player (she's also Kels' girlfriend, for anyone who doesn't know).

First time I played her, she loved dtilt as an approach option. However, this time she just dash danced a whole lot and came in with fairs and grabs following my whiffed approaches.

Any advice to deal with Marths that don't like to be the aggressor? I can understand her patience - she's gotten scared of Ganon's punish game from playing against Trail.

 

[tm]

Any advice to deal with Marths that don't like to be the aggressor? I can understand her patience - she's gotten scared of Ganon's punish game from playing against Trail.

I'm not the most experienced but against marth it's important to know what they're going for. If they're DDing and just looking for a grab, you can probably psyche them into a committal with good movement, or waveland in to jab / ftilt if they don't expect it. You can punish fsmash and fair if you shield it, but use shield sparingly because his grab is so ****. Try to stay mostly grounded as marth will destroy you when you're above him, but you can destroy him if he's above you.

If you get a grab it's possible to chaingrab up to ~15%, and higher against people who don't DI up and try to jump out. after that you have a guaranteed aerial from dthrow which can lead to easy kills at high %.

I guess that was all just general advice not campy marth advice. If they like to shield a lot, bair is good for poking and the 'kage special' (downair shield poke his feet) works well if you know they are just going to sit there. If they are really super dash-dance campy, you can just take the stage space and slowly pressure them to ledge. Marth has no super fast attacks to initiate like fox and falcon do, so don't be afraid to stand there until he does something. Make him commit before you do. Hope some of that helps, and everyone else feel free to disagree with anything I said.

 

[n0ne]

i love it when ppl dont approach u cuz theyre scared of the power of the dorf

 

[tm]

so i went to A&C yesterday and went a bit more Dorf this time around instead of Falcon, check out my matches and let me know what u think.

vs Toast (Peach): http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=2h49m7s
vs idea (Puff): http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=3h46m10s

i also go Dorf on the 3rd game vs Raynex here: http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/569286987?t=4h13m0s
btw that up b was an error, was going for Bair.

Also, just registered for TBH 4, so hyped to play all u american players there, 1st american tourney attendance btw

What the ****, dude your play is insane, instantly one of my favorites to watch.

Brb, stealing all these tricks.

Also, I never realized that full hop bair actually has a good option select (2nd bair to stuff them if they approach, waveland if they don't, or DJ-> whatever). Definitely going to try that out

 

[spider_sense]

I think once I find stable work and save up I might start traveling the country and go to random locals. Time to bring out my inner Ryu.

N0ne, Blea was telling me about you, you're one of the best in Nicaragua right? Holding it down for my people?

 

[n0ne]

I think once I find stable work and save up I might start traveling the country and go to random locals. Time to bring out my inner Ryu.

N0ne, Blea was telling me about you, you're one of the best in Nicaragua right? Holding it down for my people?

yea, thats me. Was gonna go to FL but it didnt work out and went to Costa Rica instead to play, and now i moved back to Canada.

"holding it down for my ppl" ? are u nica too?

@ tm yea, theres a lotta stuff we do with Falcon and Dorf that arent done in NA, even the Costa Ricans were flipping out when they saw them

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Apparently I'm not "in the know" lol, I completely ignored your post about being gone for a while since melee is like crack. why no smash? You still in FL?

got fired, girlfriend leaving, roommate is being stressful, mom is trying to move back in and idk how we're going to accommodate her anymore. tons of **** went down and i had to cancel going to tipped off, tfc, AND big house. there's just no room for smash now.

luckily, landed an interview for a decent job in a couple days, so i hope to be making money soon.

still in orlando, yeah.

btw @ n0ne doing uair regrab probably would've worked better. idk. a shame your up b didn't grab him lol

 

[n0ne]

got fired, girlfriend leaving, roommate is being stressful, mom is trying to move back in and idk how we're going to accommodate her anymore. tons of **** went down and i had to cancel going to tipped off, tfc, AND big house. there's just no room for smash now.

luckily, landed an interview for a decent job in a couple days, so i hope to be making money soon.

still in orlando, yeah.

btw @ n0ne doing uair regrab probably would've worked better. idk. a shame your up b didn't grab him lol

Yea i wanted a bair but somehow my finger touched B and up at the same time and since i do ledge aerials manually somehow the up b went the other way lol it wouldve been cool if it connected but he wouldve gotten back to stage anyways

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yeah n0ne your play is very original. You have your own style.

The coolest thing was definitely the movement. Are you using pivots in your dash dance? It looked like you were using a combination of dash dance, moon walks and perfect wavedashes to move around FD. Because your videos were on stream, I couldn't really tell if you were actually pivoting or not sometimes. Going back on a twitch video is such a hassle.

Also I've been practicing some unique movement options lately. On platform stages I've been training myself to waveland and throw out attacks out of a running shield drop. I've noticed a lot of ganons will take to the platforms and simply drop through aerial or waveland. The running shield drop makes those set ups so much faster and unpredictable because I can dash dance straight into the drop.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

i swear everyone is good against peach except me.

besides her, i think i fair pretty well against floaties.

Why are people ignoring this post?

Don't worry Coast I still care!

 

[Divinokage]

Why are people ignoring this post?

Don't worry Coast I still care!

Because it doesnt really mean anything? lol. Need to be way more specific.

Whoa Ian.. hope everything works out. Life is full of surprises isn't it..

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah bro (Ian) hope everything works out.

 

[n0ne]

Ian just be positive about stuff. The more positive u are, the more everything will work out and u will even feel that time will fly faster.

Next thing u know, ull be back in smash way before big house 5

 

[spider_sense]

Ian just be positive about stuff. The more positive u are, the more everything will work out and u will even feel that time will fly faster.

Next thing u know, ull be back in smash way before big house 5

Yeah Ian, I know how **** can get. You know you can hmu if you need someone to talk to and get some things off your chest.

@ n0ne Nah, I'm not Nicaraguan lol I just say my people because of the same dark skin. I'm 1/4 Cuban if that helps.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Been going to the weekly tournaments at EXP Gaming in Oak Park pretty consistently all this year, and have been going all Ganon recently. Unfortunately, lost in losers a second time to Ten, a Marth player (she's also Kels' girlfriend, for anyone who doesn't know).

First time I played her, she loved dtilt as an approach option. However, this time she just dash danced a whole lot and came in with fairs and grabs following my whiffed approaches.

Any advice to deal with Marths that don't like to be the aggressor? I can understand her patience - she's gotten scared of Ganon's punish game from playing against Trail.

Ahem. Trail and pseudoturtle. Yea she's pretty solid, especially with that kels training, but she has trouble with ganon I think.

Non aggro marth isn't that difficult, really. Just play a non aggro ganon lol. I know she, especially, really has trouble dealing with me when I waveland all over the place. Try to put her in her shield and you've automatically got the upper hand. Conversely, don't get stuck in your shield too often (can be good sometimes, but use it sparingly). If she approaches with dtilt, full hop whenever you think she's coming in and if she throws out an unsafe move, fair that ****. Full hop will get around fsmash and utilt too, by the way.

You say she comes in and grabs your whiffed approaches? Don't whiff approaches lol. It should be relatively obvious when she's baiting out a fair, so don't oblige... Instead, try and bait out her moves. Ganon really doesn't have to approach much in the marth matchup. A good tool is an empty hop into ftilt. Also, work on your crouch cancel game.

In terms of fair-friendly marths, bair beats it. Quick uair is also a really good move, and you get a FREE uair after she either whiffs a fair completely or fairs your shield. Don't be fooled, marths fair is NOT a safe move.

Work on edge guarding as well. ACE has an awesome edge guarding thread and the marth advice is especially spot on.

Remember what I kept doing to oro? I remember you commentated that match. I definitely lost lol, but my edge guarding was pretty on point with the ledge drop uairs. Ledge drop uair (with invincibility) will beat out marths recovery 100% of the time. Also light shield edge hog is good. Even if they land on stage, just ledge hop --> grab --> bair and reset the edge guard situation (although I remember ****ing this up). Don't ever let marth back on stage.

Marth used to be my most hated matchup, but now its probably my favorite alongside falcon. All that ripple practice has definitely paid off (he taught dart how to play marth years ago fyi)

edit: Ian, best of luck with everything, man. It's a shame I don't get to chill with you at big house, but life johns are life johns and I hope you don't have to sit through this for too long.

And coast, peach is my worst matchup, along with sheik. Don't expect any sympathy from me.

 

[Divinokage]

See.. now we have something in common. Marth/Falcon are also my favorite matchups. =)

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I love the spacing game. And I think marth, falcon, and dittos are the matchups in which your spacing needs to be absolutely on point to succeed.

Really, you should be able to keep your spacing consistent in all matchups, but I feel that it makes the largest difference in these three matchups.

 

[Divinokage]

I love the spacing game. And I think marth, falcon, and dittos are the matchups in which your spacing needs to be absolutely on point to succeed.

Really, you should be able to keep your spacing consistent in all matchups, but I feel that it makes the largest difference in these three matchups.

Nah Peach and Jiggs are far more annoying to fight as they have "special" jumps so the spacing game is unusual. You have to play quite defensive to win it properly. It's far easier to get caught committing to a move I mean and it's easier for them to trap you. A good player will not miss those opportunities where you whiff.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

thanks so much everyone. i love you guys to death lol

hopefully i'll be back in action next year.

falco, peach, and marth are my favourite matchups of the good characters.

i like playing against jiggs as well, but it's an odd situation because the only real jiggs out there is hbox.

 

[n0ne]

So what ganons are going to big house?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Me, tm, coast, bizzarro flame... are you? That'd be sick.

 

[n0ne]

Me, tm, coast, bizzarro flame... are you? That'd be sick.

I am actually

 

[Coastward]

so far its:

turtle
locke
me
bizz
n0ne
jiggles
trail?
renth?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Forgot about jiggles and locke... my bad (I promise I don't hate you guys).

I don't think trail can make it, and @ Renth ... any updates?

@ n0ne awesome dude! It'll be great to meet another ganon. And your ganon is ****ing sick judging by the last videos you posted.

 

[n0ne]

Forgot about jiggles and locke... my bad (I promise I don't hate you guys).

I don't think trail can make it, and @ Renth ... any updates?

@ n0ne awesome dude! It'll be great to meet another ganon. And your ganon is ****ing sick judging by the last videos you posted.

ive been leaning a bit on my falcon and have my mario a bit forgotten but im definatly thinking of mixing it up with my dorf and mario on my matches at big house.

 

[Moy]

@ tm @ PseudoTurtle thanks for the advice fellas. I definitely need to work on my edgeguards vs marth. She always does the weird double jump under ledge and then side b's to get me to give up ledge. Then comes back for free.

Sorry turtle, I didn't know you'd fought her before.

I'll be at big house, but I'll probably be using ganon and falcon depending. I'm also pretty mediocre too.

 

[Superspright]

Marth is a guy...is this 2001?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Marth is a guy...is this 2001?

I believe Moy is referring to the specific Marth player that's giving him trouble

Unfortunately, lost in losers a second time to Ten, a Marth player (she's also Kels' girlfriend, for anyone who doesn't know).

 

[Coastward]

n0ne, you still down for teams tomorrow?

 

[Duel]

so far its:

turtle
locke
me
bizz
n0ne
jiggles
trail?
renth?

I will be there representing the very few Ganon mains we have here in Michigan, I look forward to meeting you guys and trying to absorb as much ganon info as possible.

 

[Renth]

I will not be there work johns as usual. All of you come to a Florida event t.t

 

[n0ne]

n0ne, you still down for teams tomorrow?

What time does it start

Btw: mario/dorf is a good dub combo

 

[Coastward]

What time does it start

Btw: mario/dorf is a good dub combo

dubs is 12, and that sounds d0pe.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

@ tm @ PseudoTurtle thanks for the advice fellas. I definitely need to work on my edgeguards vs marth. She always does the weird double jump under ledge and then side b's to get me to give up ledge. Then comes back for free.

Sorry turtle, I didn't know you'd fought her before.

I'll be at big house, but I'll probably be using ganon and falcon depending. I'm also pretty mediocre too.

Dude, just marth killer that ****. If ever a marth is going to try to mess with your timing like that, the only option your opponent has left is to sweet spot. Even if ten doesn't sweet spot the ledge, just ledge hop --> grab --> dthrow --> bair.

I attempt to do that here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbIte-ERkKc&t=3m32s

But I am a scrub and can't even perform a simple task, like pointing the control stick in a downward direction. I end up throwing him right (WTFFFFF... this actually happens to me a lot).

...But you get the idea. If I wasn't such a noob, I would have won that game, easy.

Definite first-time-playing-on-stream johns.