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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Coastward

Coastward

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
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Location
Pumpkin Hill
ok cool i guess ill practice that **** with the 20XX pack

also, i remember seeing someone say that ganondorf was revived because of bizz at KOC4.



WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN HERE
 
RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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Greensboro, NC
Doing some tests on knockdown on Ganon's moves. Note that each move has no stale on it and each move is sweetspotted.

The threshold percent is the percent on average that the move will start knocking down the character regardless of how stale it is. hitting with a move above the threshold will always knock them down (if not crouch canceled)

Fox
Jab: - 38% (Threshold is 45%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 100%)
Ftilt: - 22% (Threshold is 35%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 70%)
Dtilt: - 17% (Threshold is 29%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 65%)

F-Smash: - 0% (Threshold is 20%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 40%)
Up-Smash - (Crotch hitbox): 0% (Will always knock down even if fully staled) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 49%) Note that this move hits with a different and stronger hitbox when Fox is standing up as compared to when he is crouch canceled. You cannot hit Fox from behind with Up-smash even if you are touching him.
Down-Smash: - Will always knock down even if you only hit with the second hit of down-smash even if fully staled. This move will always knock down even if crouch canceled, but only if the first hit connects.

Side-B: - Stops being Crouch Cancel-able at 46%
Down-B: - Stops being Crouch Cancel-able at 39%

Nair: First hit - 17% (Threshold is 29%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 65%) <- exact same as dtilt
____ Second Hit - 0% (Threshold is 10%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 46%)
Fair: - Always knocks down even when fully staled (Crouch Canceling stops working at 37%)
Up-air: Strong hit - 13% (Threshold is 25%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 60%)
______Weak hit - Over 100%. Forget about it. This isn't knocking down Fox anytime soon.
Back-air: - 7% (Threshold is 23%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 50%)
Down-air - Always knocks down even when fully staled (When Fox CCs this move, he is it a lot of stun, but doesn't get knocked down until 28% with a fresh dair hitting at 6%)

Well that was fun to find out things. I'll do Falco next at some point.
 
Coastward

Coastward

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
1,560
Location
Pumpkin Hill
Skytch said:
Doing some tests on knockdown on Ganon's moves. Note that each move has no stale on it and each move is sweetspotted.

The threshold percent is the percent on average that the move will start knocking down the character regardless of how stale it is. hitting with a move above the threshold will always knock them down (if not crouch canceled)

Fox
Jab: - 38% (Threshold is 45%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 100%)
Ftilt: - 22% (Threshold is 35%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 70%)
Dtilt: - 17% (Threshold is 29%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 65%)

F-Smash: - 0% (Threshold is 20%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 40%)
Up-Smash - (Crotch hitbox): 0% (Will always knock down even if fully staled) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 49%) Note that this move hits with a different and stronger hitbox when Fox is standing up as compared to when he is crouch canceled. You cannot hit Fox from behind with Up-smash even if you are touching him.
Down-Smash: - Will always knock down even if you only hit with the second hit of down-smash even if fully staled. This move will always knock down even if crouch canceled, but only if the first hit connects.

Side-B: - Stops being Crouch Cancel-able at 46%
Down-B: - Stops being Crouch Cancel-able at 39%

Nair: First hit - 17% (Threshold is 29%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 65%) <- exact same as dtilt
____ Second Hit - 0% (Threshold is 10%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 46%)
Fair: - Always knocks down even when fully staled (Crouch Canceling stops working at 37%)
Up-air: Strong hit - 13% (Threshold is 25%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 60%)
______Weak hit - Over 100%. Forget about it. This isn't knocking down Fox anytime soon.
Back-air: - 7% (Threshold is 23%) (Crouch Canceling stops working at 50%)
Down-air - Always knocks down even when fully staled (When Fox CCs this move, he is it a lot of stun, but doesn't get knocked down until 28% with a fresh dair hitting at 6%)

Well that was fun to find out things. I'll do Falco next at some point.
Click to expand...
getting info like this is super useful, good **** skytch. i was just thinking about doing something like this and just writing it all down.
 
Squidster

Squidster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
798
Location
Southern California
Hey guys. I was looking at Magus' post on DI in this thread way back:

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-...nguini-q-a-thread.215432/page-16#post-7442776

Right under the line "When rotating the stick along the outside for SDI it triggers by passing specific points depending on which direction you're rotating"

There's a picture that's no longer there. Is there any chance anyone has this picture or know of another place I can find it? Or know the info and is able to recreate it? I've been looking for that info for awhile and I finally found it but the picture is gone =[

Thanks yalls!
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
2,162
Location
Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
I also think that spidey has a really, REALLY solid ganon. Did you see what he did to lamb chops?? If not, watch that video. Only ganon to do that kind of damage to him was linguini back in the day.

That being said, Jason, you gotta get out more. Like ace said, that's literally all you need for some recognition. If I ever get rich, I'll fly you out to the Midwest so you can bop us (except trail, he's gonna win all ganon dittos).

I feel like I'm not as technical as I used to be. I can't even do basic stuff like drop down (from invincibility), perfect waveland double jump edge cancel uair, perfect waveland to the edge, RLD into edge cancel dair double jump perfect waveland insto dash shield drop bair. Wtf. But in all seriousness, I'm not as quick as I used to be
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
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The back country, GA
Looool that's right, you can beat joe.

too bad my job sucks, going to EVO could potentially f*ck me over. Maybe if evo was in cali I'd risk it, LOL.
 
MosthatedinNC

MosthatedinNC

Dorsey
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
111
Bring trail or ripple with you on your vacation joe.... trail only if he wants to get spanked in ganon dittos
 
Nevermind

Nevermind

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
51
Location
Charlotte, NC
So, I feel completely lost in the neutral game. I've been playing for about five months now, and since I started my punishes have gotten progressively harder and my edgeguards have become more consistent. And yet every time I win in the neutral it feels like blind luck. As of now my strategy essentially consists of throwing out bairs, reverse upairs, and well-spaced fairs and praying that something hits. Against faster characters with good DD's, though, everything I throw out is punishable.

So yeah, what's your guys' mentality in the neutral game? And how in the hell do you deal with dash dancing?
 
Renth

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
Nevermind said:
So, I feel completely lost in the neutral game. I've been playing for about five months now, and since I started my punishes have gotten progressively harder and my edgeguards have become more consistent. And yet every time I win in the neutral it feels like blind luck. As of now my strategy essentially consists of throwing out bairs, reverse upairs, and well-spaced fairs and praying that something hits. Against faster characters with good DD's, though, everything I throw out is punishable.

So yeah, what's your guys' mentality in the neutral game? And how in the hell do you deal with dash dancing?
Click to expand...
Just do nothing, let them be the ones throwing things out that you can punish. Ganondorf is very intimidating while standing perfectly still.
 
RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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Greensboro, NC
Renth said:
Just do nothing, let them be the ones throwing things out that you can punish. Ganondorf is very intimidating while standing perfectly still.
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Well, don't stand still. Standing still will make you very susceptible to being hit. You're going to want to move around a bunch. Moving a lot and doing nothing is more threatening than just standing there.

Also, @ Nevermind Nevermind I see you're in Charlotte. I am also in Charlotte. I hope we can meet up and play sometime and maybe teach you some things. I'll be at Rock em Sock em this saturday at UNCC.
 
Renth

Renth

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Messages
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Yes you've beaten me in friendlies at nationals, let me tell you a story about nationals.

Each one I've ever gone to in my life has been around times where I have been living in PA, for those who don't know. In PA I'm completely inactive, the nearest smasher is over 2 hours away sooo congrats, you can whoop me whenever I am months rusty :)
 
HoChiMinhTrail

HoChiMinhTrail

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
4,731
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Michigan State/Chicago, Il
Renth said:
Yes you've beaten me in friendlies at nationals, let me tell you a story about nationals.

Each one I've ever gone to in my life has been around times where I have been living in PA, for those who don't know. In PA I'm completely inactive, the nearest smasher is over 2 hours away sooo congrats, you can whoop me whenever I am months rusty :)
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Lol you don't live in the midwest. The other problem is... I'd **** on uberice too.
 
Coastward

Coastward

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so since i have a lot of free time on my hands, im gonna take down the same info skytch got for fox, but with everyone.

should take me a week or so, but once i collect it all i'll post it in a whole new thread so newer plays can take it down.

also, fox and falco share the same knockdown percentages.
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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So there's two ways that Ganon can grab the ledge really quickly:

The Easy Way: While running to the ledge, Wavedash towards the ledge, turn-around quickly, and do a backwards wavedash and then Fast Fall to the ledge by just tapping your control stick.

The Hard Way (but ultimately faster, maybe not as safe/consistent): While running to the ledge, waveland towards the ledge and turn-around during the waveland so that you grab the ledge while turned around and still having momentum from the waveland. I kept finding myself getting stuck at the ledge and not ledge-canceling, which leads me to believe that this is a frame-perfect move.


Coastward said:
so since i have a lot of free time on my hands, im gonna take down the same info skytch got for fox, but with everyone.

should take me a week or so, but once i collect it all i'll post it in a whole new thread so newer plays can take it down.

also, fox and falco share the same knockdown percentages.
Click to expand...
How about this. I do Sheik, you do Marth, I do Falcon, you do Peach (knowing when she can't CC certain things is important cause CC > Down-Smash hurts)

Splitting the data between us would be helpful. And I think we should limit collecting data to characters that are ground based and top tiers or, at most, mid-tiers as well.
 
Coastward

Coastward

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Pumpkin Hill
Skytch said:
So there's two ways that Ganon can grab the ledge really quickly:

The Easy Way: While running to the ledge, Wavedash towards the ledge, turn-around quickly, and do a backwards wavedash and then Fast Fall to the ledge by just tapping your control stick.

The Hard Way (but ultimately faster, maybe not as safe/consistent): While running to the ledge, waveland towards the ledge and turn-around during the waveland so that you grab the ledge while turned around and still having momentum from the waveland. I kept finding myself getting stuck at the ledge and not ledge-canceling, which leads me to believe that this is a frame-perfect move.



How about this. I do Sheik, you do Marth, I do Falcon, you do Peach (knowing when she can't CC certain things is important cause CC > Down-Smash hurts)

Splitting the data between us would be helpful. And I think we should limit collecting data to characters that are ground based and top tiers or, at most, mid-tiers as well.
Click to expand...
alright thats cool. also i got a little confused for a bit, whats the difference between the first pecentage and the threshold percentage?
 
RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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Coastward said:
alright thats cool. also i got a little confused for a bit, whats the difference between the first pecentage and the threshold percentage?
Click to expand...
The first percentage is the earliest percentage that the move will knock someone down because the move is fresh.

What I mean by threshold percent is this: Let's say the threshold percent is 45%. This means that if you hit with a move that when added up will equal 45%, it will knock down the opponent. Using the 45% example, a 13% damage move will knock down as early as 32%. But, if the opponent is at 32% and you hit with a stale movethat does... say, 9 percent, then the percent would go to 41%, and it would not knock the opponent down. That 45% is a magical number, and I think damage calculation is done where the percentage is added first, then the knockback/knockdown. So as long as you do a move that hits up to 45% (i.e: 32% > 45%) it should knock down. If you're low by even 1 percent, it will not knockdown. (i.e: 31% > 44% will NOT knockdown)
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Messages
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The back country, GA
Trail you couldn't sh** on UberIce if you took 50 ex-lax and his face was duct taped to your a$s.

If I last minute decide to drop money on a ticket to evo I'll make sure I crush your imaginary Ganon ditto prowess ;)
 
cptjiggles69

cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
Coastward said:
so since i have a lot of free time on my hands, im gonna take down the same info skytch got for fox, but with everyone.

should take me a week or so, but once i collect it all i'll post it in a whole new thread so newer plays can take it down.

also, fox and falco share the same knockdown percentages.
Click to expand...
Can you include yoshi in this?
 
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