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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Clocked

Clocked

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Do you guys have secondaries? I feel like there are some matchups where my Ganon just doesn't cut it and I'm wondering if I should put more work into my Sheik or my Falco, or just power through with Ganon. Any of you ever feel like that?
 
Clocked

Clocked

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Eikelmann said:
I don't know why I don't get notifications for this thread. The new smashboards sucks pretty hard. Quite the pain in the *** having to come back and scroll through 4+ pages every time I come back here =/ Please pardon my inactivity.

Anyway, now that superspright is dealt with, hopefully this forum will be less toxic. All of the bull**** that occurred recently was unacceptable for us as a group. Shoutouts to @Shaya for the snipe.
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Have you double checked if this thread is watched by you? That fixed it for me.
 
Renth

Renth

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Clocked said:
Do you guys have secondaries? I feel like there are some matchups where my Ganon just doesn't cut it and I'm wondering if I should put more work into my Sheik or my Falco, or just power through with Ganon. Any of you ever feel like that?
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I've been practicing falco to fight falco cause **** falco
 
Renth

Renth

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-ACE- said:
Ban ?
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Every other match up I feel like I have a formula, a standard understanding... No matter how much falco I play including vs. dashizwiz and others I cannot get a core what to do or do not want to do. I'm tired of not doing well even against the worst of falcos.
 
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Divinokage

Divinokage

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You need a sick ground game vs Falco. If you get hit a lot it's typically because they catch you when you are already in the air.

As for secondaries.. they are only important once you reach top level understanding of smash if not you'll always encounter someone that can beat you just because you have plenty of player weaknesses to exploit regardless of your character choice.
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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Yeah I got hit by the same "No Notifications" that Eikelmann was hit with, but it was nice seeing some new Ganon footage.

For a secondary, I'm working on getting my Sheik to be better, as I see her being more fit for tournament than my Falcon would be, but of course I still want to develop my Ganon.

My friend is coming over today and we'll be recording a whole lot.
 
Clocked

Clocked

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Should be. The platforms really mess up his pillar game, and the high ceiling doesn't mean anything bad for Ganon, but it does make Falco's U-smash worse.
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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Hey Coast, IC's are a great secondary to ganon. I don't have the time or patience to learn a new character, at least not until my ganon can truly **** ******* up (so close). If trail ever comes back here (he usually drops in to talk ****), he'll tell you all about it. But IC's good matchups (falco, shiek) are ganon's bad ones. And ganon can keep up with peach, which is a bad matchup for the climbers, though I still get ****ed up by the scrubbiest peaches. The only 2 matchups that are bad for both are fox and falcon, and ganon/falcon is definitely doable and mad fun, 60-40 I would think.

I actually enjoy the spacies matchups now except when Kels uses fox. **** that ****. But you can bop them both pretty good.

A tip for falco: roll towards him if he comes at you with an areal, don't even let it hit you. It resets your positioning in ganon's favor most of the time. I know it seems pretty obvious, but it's pretty useful and not enough people do it. Coast, while watching your set vs that falco (good job), you have to use platforms more to get out of the laser game. Even if you're not wavelanding and being fancy on them like us scrubs who think it's fun, it forces him up there even if he wants to laser camp- he has to full hop or double jump to reach you with his lasers and at this point, you can just run off the platform and eat up some space because now he's above you.

ACE lollllll dude and I thought I was cool for opening up my beer with my car keys (still a cool party trick for some reason)
 
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cptjiggles69

cptjiggles69

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I think as ganon fod should be a stage to practice on, except against marthi think its pretty decent to limit other characters movement such as falcon? Not sure how it would be with shiek though. Definitely need some smash pros experience sometime soon
 
cptjiggles69

cptjiggles69

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Kage do you play other characters at all for just messing around or is it strictly ganon no matter what?
 
cptjiggles69

cptjiggles69

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I dont see why. You dont have to move much. Most people suck at it or don't like it. It does limit ganon's movement like his fairs and bairs. I think if you learn to play around it it should be fine
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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falco ***** on fod. shiz anyone???

platforms do not mess up his pillar game, but they do limit ganon's shffl's.

joe I can help you with peach. my luigi needs peach practice.... ganon I'm good (I've always had close matches with dop.... got only 1 stocked twice by macd the only time I played him years ago). I'll pm you.

Also the best rolls against falco are done when you have thrown off falco's neutral game enough for him to mis-space an approach. wait until he hits your shield (mis-spaced), then buffer a roll. if he shines you, DI BEHIND HIM. Eat the Bair and live to ganon another day. If he's able to space an approach directly in front of you, and you think he's going to dair + shine, shield the dair and begin holding down + away (away is best but down + away is easier and works most of the time) and input grab the instant the shine comes out. he will be grabbed immediately after shining your shield.

simply rolling before the approach has landed can work as a mixup but don't get predictable. It's easily punished if falco notices a pattern.

Edit: trying to find a gif that illustrates the grab after dair + shine with proper shield ASDI.... my age old photobucket page seems to be missing quite a few gems. I found this gif, however, which highlights the true potential of SDI.

 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

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Magus420 said:
Generally speaking, if you're going to roll, don't do it between the d-air and shine. Same with shieldgrabbing unless the d-air hits high up on your shield and they haven't reached like top speed on their fastfall.

Oh yeah and if you do try to shieldgrab, something that helps to get the grab out the 1st moment possible is to hit A while shielding then immediately after hit Z. Kind of like JC grabbing except A instead of jump. That way you get a small room for error to time it perfectly. Again, do it while holding away if you do.
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had to ressurect this. to be honest I don't ever remember reading it.

EDIT. FOUND IT

 
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Divinokage

Divinokage

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Coastward said:
id rather play falco on FD than FoD lmao. **** that stage.
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WHAT!! Seriously?

I agree that Falco's pillar game can be even more disgusting because on FoD Dair into drop the platform Dair is a true link on shield which can really kill you fast. But I kinda like the platforms on FoD because Ganon can also aerial ledge cancel + another aerial or grounded move which is also a true link on shield.. all depends how high the platform currently is. If you can adapt to it, the level can really increase Ganon's pressure game which will enable you to auto-corner someone a lot of the times. The stage is so small!

-ACE- said:
had to ressurect this. to be honest I don't ever remember reading it.

EDIT. FOUND IT

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Shield DI ftw? Need to master that ****!
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

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kage just be holding out when shine hits. You have to shield asdi the shine away. if done correctly his only option is full jump out of shine. It only works on Falco.... For those that didn't know, fox's shine has more range.
 
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L

Linguini

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OH **** THE GUINI GRAB. lol I was doing that since like 07. I played forward back then and he didn't understand why I was grabbing him so much lmao...
 
PseudoTurtle

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So right after you get hit, hold down and away (or just away?) And grab after the shine? I've been trying to figure out how you do that for years, linguini. Secret's out!

Another linguini secret I've been applying: when you expect a jab from your opponent, crouch cancel it and immediately jc grab (can't grab in the crouch position). Awesome for falcon. After they knee/nair your shield, shield grab (you most likely won't get the grab here, this is only to make you drop your shield) and crouch. Wait for the jab (they allllll do it) and then jc grab. Free grab on falcon (ie the way you beat falcon).
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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PseudoTurtle said:
So right after you get hit, hold down and away (or just away?) And grab after the shine? I've been trying to figure out how you do that for years, linguini. Secret's out!

Another linguini secret I've been applying: when you expect a jab from your opponent, crouch cancel it and immediately jc grab (can't grab in the crouch position). Awesome for falcon. After they knee/nair your shield, shield grab (you most likely won't get the grab here, this is only to make you drop your shield) and crouch. Wait for the jab (they allllll do it) and then jc grab. Free grab on falcon (ie the way you beat falcon).
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When you are being hit by the shine, If you have away held, you move far enough away to not get hit by additional multi-shines. Down and away (how guini always did it) is easier, and very useful, but not prefect (honestly no one does it perfectly yet - which would be fully away shield SDI + shield asdi in the same direction). Personally I do it the same way he does (shield ASDI, but with downward force... holding down + away vs holding away), so you get a semi-crouch-cancel effect which keeps you from moving far (this is VERY good vs a marth sh fair'ing you, in which case you'd hold down+forward and shieldgrab a well spaced fair) but still gets you more grabs. It's just a habit. I haven't practiced using full away shield asdi/sdi much but when you get the sdi input the extra "push" you get is very obvious.... And I believe that is the only guaranteed way that works every time (and not just most of the time).

You want to input grab as soon as he has shined your shield. timing the grab is everything.
 
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cptjiggles69

cptjiggles69

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So after crouch canceling do you immediately stand up to do JC grab? Sorry alot of info to take in but want to make i do it right
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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cptjiggles69 said:
So after crouch canceling do you immediately stand up to do JC grab? Sorry alot of info to take in but want to make i do it right
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No crouch-cancelling actually, just asdi down (but you want to be doing it away more so than down... FULL away is best). Crouch canceling is comprised of asdi down (grounded effect, extra traction) and crouching itself (cuts hitstun in half).... which you dont need here. You just get pushed back when the shine hits your shield, then just do a regular grab immediately.
 
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RedmanSSBM

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What do you guys think is the potential of ledge-hop nair? If done quickly, you can retain full invincibility and only the first hit of nair comes out, meaning that can lead into a combo from the ledge! I definitely think it has its potential.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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I was talking to spider sense the other day about how cool it would be to be able to ledgehop nair + grab. Unfortunately it would be super situational, and to make the grab easier you'd want to delay pressing A for the nair by a few frames... not sure if it would be invincible then. I'd like to see it (nair itself... not this wannabe tech) put to use though.
 
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