Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Superspright]

Uptilt also can hit Fox if he commits to a sweetspot recovery with firefox, but you have to start the utilt 10 frames before he starts his max range UP-B. It's a judgment call, but it's technically a frame trap once he commits to the up-b against the utilt. Unless he does it perfect perhaps.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Try doing a reverse wave land of the ledge, edge cancel double uair. **** is godlike vs spacies/c-falcon/Ganon/Sheik. Haven't tested it on any of the other characters. (I don't have a cube, so someone here can try on the rest of the cast for me: Renth?) Oh where were you? You know I got you on the Falco MU

I'm also down to do that Ganon tech vid. Bizzaroflame stealing all my tricks.

That sounds real flashy, but idk what's the point of the edge cancel if you're not going to hit with the first uair. Seems p situational to me.

 

[Superspright]

You do connect with the first uair, and then the second. It's very situational, but it stuffs people if you touch with his toes to knock them gently into a harder uair that's coming down on them. I prefer to smack people with Ganon's thighs off stage...it just kills. His example kills as well, but is probably impossible for an opponent to react to or get around if he does it right.

 

[Linguini]

lmao yeah the utilt is actually legit in terms of edgeguarding a shiek. They have to be forced to commit to the full length of the up-b though, so don't try it if you don't have the timing down!

yo griceson i'll see you during my break and at that tourney on march 9th. gonnna win that ish my n!gga

 

[Renth]

Uptilt also can hit Fox if he commits to a sweetspot recovery with firefox, but you have to start the utilt 10 frames before he starts his max range UP-B. It's a judgment call, but it's technically a frame trap once he commits to the up-b against the utilt. Unless he does it perfect perhaps.

If fox commits to a sweet spot recovery just grab the ledge.

I got a bunch of friendlies with shizwiz today, was a good time. - Learning that Falco match up so I can feel like a real florida ganon

 

[Superspright]

You can always do that, but it's funnier to utilt them. I go with what works, and if I can do something weird that works I'll try it. Grabbing the ledge and stalling is always the best option against him if he has to recover to ledge.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

So I just thought of an interesting way to techchase with Ganon.

First what I'll do when I downthrow for the first time is see what direction they DI in and what direction they tech. I will stand in place or in the area that I downthrowed and I will dair in the spot that would hit my opponent if he DI's away, but techs back. This would be the only option that I couldn't cover in what I'll explain in a bit. Basically with this first throw, I'm trying to condition/manipulate my opponent into thinking "Okay, don't tech that throw like that or you will get punished badly." This will go into the person's head whether I hit the dair or not. It might be more occurrent to them if I hit them, but that's still what I want to put in their head, that that option to DI away and tech back is a bad idea.

Here comes the next part. I will downthrow them again. This time, I will cover the 3/4 options by dashing in the direction that my opponent DI's in (which is reactable) and then jump. Right as I'm jumping is when I should see where my opponent teched or if he teched at all. If he techs froward, then I continue my jump forward and land a fair where their tech roll ends. If they tech in place, I hold back after the jump and bair them. If they don't tech, they can't getup attack quick enough to combat my bair, so I'll also bair them in this position.

The only way they can get out of that tech chase is if they DI away and back, which I manipulated in their head that they shouldn't do that. So I could screw with my opponent by doing the dair techchase first, then the one that covers 3 options, then back to the dair one. People tend to think one step at a time and tend to go back and forth or repeat things twice or more. So if I hit with the dair techchase first, then they immediately change their DI and tech, I can predict they'll do that and adjust accordingly. If they DI and tech the same, then I can keep using the same way to chase until they change it or until I feel like they finally have it occurred to them that the way they are DIing and teching isn't working (which is usually the 3rd or 4th time in a row, not to say they won't go back and do it again.)

Just something I thought I'd share that I kinda learned today about techchasing with Ganon. Sure, there are other ways like with side-b, but I think this one is unique to me, plus I don't have trouble executing it. Maybe I'd like input or maybe I just want to have this written down in case I forget, but this is just one of the few examples of theorycrafting that I do in my head with Ganon.

Of course this is against spacies and heavy characters.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Good ****. I'll definitely implement that tech chase. I've noticed a lot of ganons dthrow to dsmash often. Thoughts?

 

[Renth]

Good ****. I'll definitely implement that tech chase. I've noticed a lot of ganons dthrow to dsmash often. Thoughts?

Do they? I don't see many use it other than myself.

 

[Coastward]

i techchase with my side b alot, usually follow it up with bairs/fairs depending on their choice of movement. ganon's punish from techchasing is really fun, you have so many options and it feels good hitting your opponent hard for messing up a simple tech. dthrow > wizards foot is the best.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Do they? I don't see many use it other than myself.

linguini seemed to do it a lot from the videos i've seen of him on youtube

dthrow > wizards foot is the best.

dat reverse hitbox tho

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

video of someone doing that? i don't think i've ever seen a ganon do that before.

it's so easy and super free most of the time. just try it for yourself.

oh btw i found matches of me that aren't too old. completely forgot about them. check it out. there's some nice stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6IeukkAxRo

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Downthrow downsmash can be used multiple ways. You can do just a straight d-throw dsmash at a high enough percent to where it's free, that can lead into a fair for a stock. At lower percents, you have to read that they'll DI behind you and tech forward, or vice verse, and downsmash accordingly. Sometimes, to throw my opponent off, I'll d-throw, and then do a dsmash in the other direction. I basically hold in the opposite direction that I'm facing and it will cover them if they DI backwards.

Tech-chasing with side-b is guarenteed at like 40% because fastfallers don't hit the ground in time from a d-throw to tech, so you can infact do this twice with side-b before finishing with a bair or fair.

Tech-chasing with Wizards Foot is really only necessary for a hard read and to take your opponent's stock, or to get them really far off stage and then hit them with an upair. The reverse hitbox is pretty cool too, but don't expect to hit it all the time, it only works when your opponent DI's backward. It is true that Wizard's Foot can Tech-Chase someone who DI's away and techs away, but it's risky cause it may not hit and your opponent could get up quickly enough from the roll and shield it. It's really only for a hard read.


EDIT: I'd also like to point out that I think upsmash is underrated/underused. I think a tech-chase dair to a fully-charged or semi-charged upsmash would do a ****-load of damage, especially if you hit with both hitboxes. Plus the crotch hitbox sending your opponent outwards is glorious. Upsmash can also catch your opponent when they double jump and try to come down with an aerial.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

So guys, i pulled off an u-tilt tech chase on a fox in tournament. Right when I d-aired the fox after a short hop, I moved as far away from the fox as possible with my aerial movement (to prevent the get-up attack from hitting me) and started u-tilt right away. the u-tilt traded with the first hit of fox's get up attack and still killed the fox. Get at me!

Not recorded though

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i'm gonna steal that from you, jason. good ****.

up smash is amazing vs peach btw

you guys better watch my matches.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

how to use up smash against peach except for d-air (non-DI) > up-smash?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

through any platform, after dthrow with no di, when they're coming into you and not expecting it at higher percents. i've had other applications but i love it vs peach and lighter characters. renth can attest. he uses up smash really well and randomly lol

 

[Superspright]

Dair [Edge-canceled] into pivot up-smash is hilarious on platforms. If they are around 40-70% they just eat the usmash immediately.

Usmash is highly underrated. If your opponent is going to just jump on you then it's one of the best walling moves I've ever seen. It's a straight up wall of manly ass thighs and **** blasts.

 

[Coastward]

the only time i really use usmash is when a fox is recovering over the ledge with firefox. half of the time a fully charged one doesnt even kill.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

the only time I use Usmash is when I **** up a SH Upair and JC Usmash instead.

Then I laugh when it kills them

 

[RedmanSSBM]

i'm gonna steal that from you, jason. good ****.

up smash is amazing vs peach btw

you guys better watch my matches.

Yeah Ian the matches you linked were pretty nice. Solid play. Will take notes.

I wanna try that utilt tech-chase now as silly as it sounds lmao

 

[Coastward]

RIP Kage, hasnt posted in the longest time LOL.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I'll use usmash to punish people that recover high on platforms if I think I can get the KO or they're at low percentage, in which case I can often link the usmash into a an arial. Doesn't happen too often though. The most common time I use usmash is I read a tech when I'm below someone. But sometimes I won't go for this because a fair is often a better option and will kill.

it's so easy and super free most of the time. just try it for yourself.

I have. It's just not working. I either have to up-b after to regrab or I can land it on the stage l-canceled. Could someone help me with the timing or show me a video? As vague as this question sounds, you guys have helped me out pretty well so far.

 

[Linguini]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZVCq6uGXyc

tommy tipper!!! warlock punch @ 2:50

 

[Upke]

RIP Kage, hasnt posted in the longest time LOL.

He just showed up online. Pretty swag.

 

[Coastward]

my voodoo summoning chants brought him back from the dead, thank you great kami-sama.

 

[Renth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZVCq6uGXyc

tommy tipper!!! warlock punch @ 2:50

Sensei Tipman. I was very happy when I met him. I've got a few new tricks up my sleeve recently also emilio, looking forward to the next time I see you. Shiz has been coming to my house lately - learning this falco match up so I can be a "Florida Ganon"

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i'm becoming increasingly depressed at how unrepresented we are in europe.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

You guys are gonna wanna watch Kage play on Melee Netplay, he talks about Ganon and whatnot. Worth watching. http://www.twitch.tv/kagethewarrior

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I tried to get Kage to ledgehop uair regrab on the steam. He messed it up three times and moved on. It's deceivingly hard and I'm not seeing any ganons do it :/

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I tried to get Kage to ledgehop uair regrab on the steam. He messed it up three times and moved on. It's deceivingly hard and I'm not seeing any ganons do it :/

i just did it 10 times in a row and i never practice it. i wish i had a stream.

kage isn't a technical ganondorf. in fact, of the good ganondorfs, kage is the LEAST technical. i promise you it's a lot easier than you think. i wish i was better at explaining technical aspects of the game.

basically, you shouldn't be trying to do it too close to the stage. think of it almost as a retreating uair from the ledge. you need to do it just far enough that the ledge grab box is able to connect with the ledge.

 

[-ACE-]

I roll the stick from away to up and hit C-up then drift back. Out of practice I get it about 3/4 of the time.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

i just did it 10 times in a row and i never practice it. i wish i had a stream.

kage isn't a technical ganondorf. in fact, of the good ganondorfs, kage is the LEAST technical. i promise you it's a lot easier than you think. i wish i was better at explaining technical aspects of the game.

basically, you shouldn't be trying to do it too close to the stage. think of it almost as a retreating uair from the ledge. you need to do it just far enough that the ledge grab box is able to connect with the ledge.

oh so push the control stick away from the ledge, jump uair and drift back in but just really fast?

and yeah i've noticed that about kage. out of the big three ganons (kage, linguini and bizarro) there seem to be three levels of tech

kage - low tech skill relative to the three but the best from extremely smart/aggressive gameplay and heavy punish game. i watched (by watch i mean analyze by pausing the video to see exactly what he's doing) him a lot when i first started playing ganon just to learn spacing and smart play in general. ironically, i think he's a lot easier to follow then the other ganons for beginners. this really isn't true of most characters. like i would never tell a new fox to try and analyze mango lol.

linguini - medium tech skill relative to the three. big emphasis on spacing and ledge play. i've been watching him more in the last few months to start developing my technical skills better. it's been very helpful so far.

bizzaro - extreme tech skill. emphasis on edge cancels, pivots and lots of small technical maneuvers that catch people off guard. does bizarro shield drop much? i feel like that's an underused thing in the ganon meta. i've watched most of his matches on youtube, but i haven't really "watched" (analyzed) them a lot or tried to replicate much of what he does because it's simply beyond me. once i master much of what linguini seems to do a lot i'll probably move on to bizzaro and start practicing the edge cancels and pivots he pulls off.

i also have watched a bunch of mangus to learn some defensive play and sheit man that's some hard stuff he tries to pull off on a regular basis. power shield jabs are something i don't think i could do on a regular basis but i will probs try to learn that stuff better around the time i'm learning edge cancels.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

oh so push the control stick away from the ledge, jump uair and drift back in but just really fast?

something like that. when it comes to explaining my passions, i fail pretty badly. sorry :с

and yeah i've noticed that about kage. out of the big three ganons (kage, linguini and bizarro) there seem to be three levels of tech

kage - low tech skill relative to the three but the best from extremely smart/aggressive gameplay and heavy punish game. i watched (by watch i mean analyze by pausing the video to see exactly what he's doing) him a lot when i first started playing ganon just to learn spacing and smart play in general. ironically, i think he's a lot easier to follow then the other ganons for beginners. this really isn't true of most characters. like i would never tell a new fox to try and analyze mango lol.

linguini - medium tech skill relative to the three. big emphasis on spacing and ledge play. i've been watching him more in the last few months to start developing my technical skills better. it's been very helpful so far.

bizzaro - extreme tech skill. emphasis on edge cancels, pivots and lots of small technical maneuvers that catch people off guard. does bizarro shield drop much? i feel like that's an underused thing in the ganon meta. i've watched most of his matches on youtube, but i haven't really "watched" (analyzed) them a lot or tried to replicate much of what he does because it's simply beyond me. once i master much of what linguini seems to do a lot i'll probably move on to bizzaro and start practicing the edge cancels and pivots he pulls off.

i also have watched a bunch of mangus to learn some defensive play and sheit man that's some hard stuff he tries to pull off on a regular basis. power shield jabs are something i don't think i could do on a regular basis but i will probs try to learn that stuff better around the time i'm learning edge cancels.

bizzaro and spider sense are the ultimate tech skill ganondorfs. then renth and myself probably follow closely behind. linguini is pretty technical, but he doesn't play anymore, so i wouldn't put him on any lists.

magus is good for learning a few things yeah, but most of his stuff is pretty old at this point.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

bizzaro and spider sense are the ultimate tech skill ganondorfs. then renth and myself probably follow closely behind. linguini is pretty technical, but he doesn't play anymore, so i wouldn't put him on any lists.

magus is good for learning a few things yeah, but most of his stuff is pretty old at this point.

I watch mainly Linguini's stuff from 2008-2010ish. It's old but he was the best ganon before Kage so I still think he's important to learn from.

Hmmm never really watched spider sense. I'lll have to check him out. And you guys too I guess.

 

[-ACE-]

Spider sense is the most technical (and flashy) Ganon to ever live.

Imo, kage is quite technical. He's just not flashy. Tech skill to me, is like 50% the ability to do what you want to do with your character, and 50% flash/ability to perform difficult techniques. Although it's true there are some techs kage can't do as well as someone like bizz, most of that is because he chooses not to do it (either because he knows he doesn't have the tech down yet and doesn't want to make himself vulnerable by making an error, or because he doesn't see the tech's usefulness in a given situation). He has complete control over his character and that speaks a lot for his tech skill imo.

RockCrock is not flashy but very technical too, imo, for example. You can't have spacing that good without having complete control of your character.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

idk ace. have you played bizz before? I've played them both and i'd say it's pretty close, if not slightly in bizz's favour.

 

[-ACE-]

No. I haven't. But I've seen his combo vid and lots of others. I'm a fan.

Btw, didn't you say the time we went down to Miami it was your first time? Never seen anyone as smooth an consistent as Jason, just saying. I don't live in cali so there you have it

Also, I'm obviously the most technical.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnXY5HAIGNg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Lol

 

[Coastward]

man, i'm starting to get disappointed with my play.

i know the habits that i need to break so that i can further my play and improve, but i keep repeating the same mistakes and losing games. i feel like an idiot half of the time.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

No. I haven't. But I've seen his combo vid and lots of others. I'm a fan.

Btw, didn't you say the time we went down to Miami it was your first time? Never seen anyone as smooth an consistent as Jason, just saying. I don't live in cali so there you have it

Also, I'm obviously the most technical.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnXY5HAIGNg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Lol

it was my first time, yeah. why?