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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Coastward

Coastward

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
1,560
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Pumpkin Hill
so i played loki this weekend, ganon dittos.

he knows his stuff man. like, he's so precise with all of his frames, his execution is perfect. we played a few matches and he always won, but it was really fun playing him.
 
tm

tm

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
819
Location
NWOH
I guess one of my matches was recorded... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqqGEWeP5i8

Pretty bad despite being the first matches I played that day. Try to disregard the missed sweetspots, missed l-cancels, accidental fsmashes, wrong throw directions, then give some tips if you want :p

I think when I play spacies I get nervous and just try to do stuff, and end up being unsafe, rather than waiting for them to do something and reacting to that. His combos and tech were good, and I don't feel bad for losing, but I should not have been doing the things I listed nearly as much... Perhaps I just need to play more and solidify the muscle memory.
 
S

Superspright

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
1,334
Stop spacing fair on him to zone unless you're sure he's going to dash attack or jump in on an aerial, your best zoning tool is bair and uair. You also need to try to grab more. Grabs are profit, and you sometimes went for things that couldn't work. Practice your follow-ups out of grab. Also, you hesitate a lot on hit confirms when you don't have time to wait. Ganondorf never has time to really wait. You need to get into position to edge-guard quicker, and try to use uair and bair more in the matchup. Fade back fair is really good if you're sure they are going to barrel in for something, but most of the time they can just overshoot and hit you as you are rising--that's why uair is better if you time it. Also, never go above Fox unless you absolutely need to. It's not safe. Don't jump so much against Fox it makes it easier to read what you are going to do, and he can run in and grab you before you land. At best you can uair, but you still L-cancel it and end up stuck on the ground, there is like a 12 frame gap where he can run in on you every time you jump and don't do it safely [but it's just a guessing game in the end, but mix it up between aerials and wavelands and tomahawk grabs and stuff]. That gap is when you're about to land but you can't uair, that's why wavelanding into him or behind him is good. Also, whenever your shield got pressured near ledge or in certain situations you predictably rolled. Learn to wavedash out of shield or just drop the shield and walk away. A roll is a exactly like a free tech-read. They get to punish you with basically anything they want. Don't give it up.
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
How to edgeguard Fox/Falco:

1. Knock them off stage
2. Quickly get in position (where you stand when you want to tipman spike a sweespotter).
3. At the right time, short hop but don't fastfall, so that on reaction you can uair a high illusion, bair one near ganon's waist height, or uair spike the sweespot attempt. When you jump depends on how far Fox/Falco is off stage and whether or not he has his jump. If done correctly this usually covers all options for phantasm but requires some decent reaction time
4. After the aerial, l-cancel, pivot, low f-tilt (the stank leg). This will cover a firefox attempt at going directly for the ledge even if you whiff a uair spike. At this point your opponent usually takes this option since he felt threatened/pressured enough from the sh aerial at the ledge that he didn't phantasm. But if he firefoxes high just hit him or shield and punish oos.
6. But let's be serious, most people are going to illusion/phantasm and this is basically my go-to strat... sh, wait, possible uair/bair, stank leg. Covers basically everything. While in mid air, if they illusion above you, uair. into you, bair. below you (sweetspot), uair spike.
7. That's pretty much it/random contribution
8. I'm bored
 
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PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
2,162
Location
Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
I suck at edge guarding spacies. I can edge guard falcon, ganon, marth, doc/mario, luigi, samus, dk, yoshi (yes samus, yoshi and dk...), but I can't edge guard a space animal to save my ****ing life. Maybe I'll try your method out, Dave, but it sounds kinda tricky. I was thinking for when they firefox above the ledge, maybe I could do a sh, no fast fall to bait out the sweetspot to the ledge, and then stomp them on their way to the ledge? Because I know you can't reverse uair spike them in this case. I haven't played in such a long time, I was just wondering if that would be feasible.

edit: voorhese is funny. I played that dude a couple times, he's extremely fast and technical, but doesn't always make the best decisions. I would say stop approaching as much and let him do his crazy platform crap and then full hop bair or something when he tries to come down. I didn't really watch the matches yet, but I remember that working somewhat well at FC when I played him in friendlies. He also said I was his favorite ganon. Smooth as iceeee :cool:
 
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S

Superspright

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
1,334
Edge-guarding them is pretty simple, but if they ever try to up-b at a range within your waveland fair range you should always try to stuff them. Make them honest about their recovery--if you give them the phantasm close to ledge they can shorten it or go longer and mix it up thus creating a guessing situation you don't want...if you force them to be honest they will have to go for max range, or near max range illusions/firefox. Make sure they learn quickly they can't just firefox in an unsafe zone. Once that happens Ace's method is perfect for covering everything going near ledge or just onto stage. You'll always have the time to react to it.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
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The back country, GA
joe, you have enough time to reverse uair spike. It basically comes down to timing the bair, so if he tries to phantasm through you he'll be hit. But once a certain point comes and he hasn't made a move, reverse uair, which can cover the sweetspot and slightly higher, but any phantasm coming at Ganon's knees/waist and up you should use bair (or uair if he's really high obviously).
 
dERO!

dERO!

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
84
Location
Paris !!!
Thinking of it, do you guys often have time to set up for your edgeguards ? I rarely have the time to set up properly and often end up grounded, like wavedash then angled ftilt or jab.
I think this comes with the fact that I hug the centerstage, maybe pal fair's knockback plays a tiny part in it too

anyways, is uairing/bairing that superior to tilts to you ? the fact that i can crouch if something goes bad also makes me feel a bit safer
 
spider_sense

spider_sense

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Depends of how they're trying to recover, usually the best way to handle most edge guards (assuming you already grabbed the ledge) just simply uair back onto the stage right as they're trying to recover. To edge guard spacies is also fairly simply. You can jab/tilt/uair the side-b. If you see them trying to up-b in your face just go out there and hit them with a strong sense of justice. Also down angled f-tilt and regular dtilt is pretty good as well. I usually grab the ledge and as soon as I know that they're trying to recover I'll just get back on the stage and turn around and edge guard appropriately.
 
Laharl's_Wrath

Laharl's_Wrath

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
109
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NY
Just figured I'd say "hi" here since I've not much else to say (and this is really the only active thread on the ganon boards) but after getting my ass whooped on netplay Eikelmann seemed relatively insistent upon my posting 'cause more Ganon mains and activity and all that ****

anyway
hello? I'm trash and relatively new to melee in a serious sense and almost all of my experience is over ****ty netplay (outside of getting together 'bout once a week with a friend) due to me being horribly antisocial and mentally struggling between that and the desire to play more and get better
but yeah
lurked here for quite a while, saying hi I guess, carry on I'll continue trying to leech information and get less-****
 
dERO!

dERO!

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
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84
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Paris !!!
spider_sense said:
Depends of how they're trying to recover, usually the best way to handle most edge guards (assuming you already grabbed the ledge) just simply uair back onto the stage right as they're trying to recover. To edge guard spacies is also fairly simply. You can jab/tilt/uair the side-b. If you see them trying to up-b in your face just go out there and hit them with a strong sense of justice. Also down angled f-tilt and regular dtilt is pretty good as well. I usually grab the ledge and as soon as I know that they're trying to recover I'll just get back on the stage and turn around and edge guard appropriately.
Click to expand...
true that when i can setup, i get the ledge, and just get up with an uair or drop from the ledge and uair if they upb too early/close.

so that thing about sh uair/bair stuff still sounds un-natural to me, compared to this ^
 
Эикельманн [РУС]

Эикельманн [РУС]

Banned via Administration
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Jul 17, 2009
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Orlando/Владивосток
Laharl's_Wrath said:
Just figured I'd say "hi" here since I've not much else to say (and this is really the only active thread on the ganon boards) but after getting my *** whooped on netplay Eikelmann seemed relatively insistent upon my posting 'cause more Ganon mains and activity and all that ****

anyway
hello? I'm trash and relatively new to melee in a serious sense and almost all of my experience is over ****ty netplay (outside of getting together 'bout once a week with a friend) due to me being horribly antisocial and mentally struggling between that and the desire to play more and get better
but yeah
lurked here for quite a while, saying hi I guess, carry on I'll continue trying to leech information and get less-****
Click to expand...
yesssssss hahaha welcome brother

i'll send you links to some tournaments near westchester if you'd like.

you're not that bad btw, don't worry. netplay is crazy ****.
 
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dERO!

dERO!

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
84
Location
Paris !!!
You're right, Ace thanks for your input

Yep I'll go Turtle, got a friends birthday in London that night. So you coming ?
 
Laharl's_Wrath

Laharl's_Wrath

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
109
Location
NY
Eikelmann said:
yesssssss hahaha welcome brother

i'll send you links to some tournaments near westchester if you'd like.

you're not that bad btw, don't worry. netplay is crazy ****.
Click to expand...
yeah, I'd appreciate it a lot
dunno what, if anything, I'll have the time or energy for lately but can't hurt
 
RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
RaphaelRobo said:
You still play Ganon? I thought you switched to Link. NC has fraudulent Ganondorfs.
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I haven't played Link since Apex. Been sticking with the Dorf since then (minus the last 49er fight night cause I went falcon for that one)
Eikelmann said:
that's what i'm sayin. some bitch ayuss nyukkas over there
Click to expand...
Ganon my one and only character. I've now TWICE gone 3-2 in back to back tournaments. Feeling pretty good.
 
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