Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[OliClutch117]

Wf spikes are so filthy.

 

[Upke]

Uptilt because my friend mains Jiggs and I like to almost get rested but make him miss.

 

[Divinokage]

Dair and Fair are my favorite totally. Probably because of my attachment to these moves and what other people named it for me... cool stuff. Dair through shield = my special and the double Fair in teams = the warrior. lol. Shoutouts to D1 and Gimpyfish.

And also the sound the move makes when you land it, MMMMMM!!!

 

[Jagoffian]

Bairing illusions is so ****ing satisfying, so I'll go with that.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Jabbing illusions is more fun than bairing them. Jab illusion, turn around, jump off stage and uair (works very well with falco, not sure about fox with his amazing recovery). Gawd Eddie is such a smart player, he told me he did that back in the day and it still works in 2013

 

[-ACE-]

Tilting them is even more badass to me. A lot of falco's start aiming for Ganon's knees after they get jabbed out of the phantasm a few times. Since the tilt is slower it requires a faster reaction, and it's like "yeah I got that option covered too mutha ****a" with low ftilt. And it usually kills.

 

[OliClutch117]

Tilting them is even more badass to me. A lot of falco's start aiming for Ganon's knees after they get jabbed out of the phantasm a few times. Since the tilt is slower it requires a faster reaction, and it's like "yeah I got that option covered too mutha ****a" with low ftilt. And it usually kills.

Haven't seen this done before will be trying it from now on.

 

[-ACE-]

Low ftilt and jab combined cover almost all of Ganon's body, as far as hitting the phantasm/illusion without trading. There is a small spot near his waist where normal fitlt works best (will trade the least) and up at the top of his head above jab's range, high ftilt can reach (or you can probably retreat and uair if you read this, or just crouch and punish his landing lag with an aerial).

 

[Divinokage]

My old friend joked that the Jab to ftilt link.. and then repeating that is the Chuck Norris wall. lol. You cant pass it!

 

[-ACE-]

Hahaha it pretty much is a chuck norris wall. I've always had a little bit of trouble doing some of the tilts (namely high ftilt) because I can react in time, but sometimes I hit the stick too far or too fast lol.

 

[evan56780]

Predicting some ones tech and punishing with a Dair is by far the best. On a side note I was reading the edge guarding form and noticed there was nothing on peach so like I thought I would ask here for either a link or advice on how to. My go to strategy so far is if the peach is around the edge and not high above I jump off stage Bair then jump back towards stage with Uair. It seems to cover a decent amount of options but not all just wondering if there is a better way.

 

[Superspright]

Against Peach if she's at FH height you can punish her recovery--otherwise forget it. Watch out for air-dodge onto stage through your uair/fair/bair. That will get behind you and you may get edge-guarded if you over commit to it. Your best bet is to stall her out until either her float ends and strike her off stage, or try to hit her before she up-bs...you can DD at the ledge and force her to go to ledge and wavedash off--in some instances you can roll back toward ledge and lightshield hog her if she's not clever enough to see it coming--but you have to get hit on a certain angle by the umbrella near the top of your light shield and you edgehog her. Mainly grabbing ledge, and zoning her with aerials works best if she's at FH or SH height...but if she's good she will just airdodge through most options so it's best to get her in her umbrella so she can't airdodge...good luck edge-guarding her, it's not too hard. Once she's on ledge she's very unsafe too because of her awful double jump, so use that to your advantage and zone her in. If she lets her invincibility wear off go for an edge-canceled dair and then follow up with a ledge-drop uair because most likely she's either gone on stage or double jumped back away from you. A perfect dair beats a rising umbrella, and I believe bair can get inside the umbrella as well....forget uair or fair as an option it often gets stuffed by the hitbox of the umbrella, and I imagine a good peach will drop fast and flicker the umbrella to beat bair if possible.

 

[evan56780]

Okay last question for a bit, (Its summer and I have time to practice stuff now) is there an easy way to ledge-dash or whatever you call it? Or do I just suck. Iv tried pressing away iv tried pressing down just nothing is working. Oh and I should add I can do this with all the other characters I play just not Ganon and it makes me sad.

 

[-ACE-]

you have to be pretty fast but once you have it it'll get really easy. you have to jump the frame after you drop basically. I use down (X to jump) and roll the joystick to forward and hit R.

 

[Superspright]

Technically speaking the best way to ledge-dash or reverse ledge-dash is to use C-stick away from stage [no chance to fast fall], and then jump and simultaneously DI toward the stage and then either input the airdodge or DI back toward ledge and airdodge. Your best bet to getting the timing down is to either try Ace's way or mine...but start off with just getting onto the stage from your ledge-drop air jump. Once you can get onto stage start incorporating the airdodge for the dash...once you get good at that start learning to jab/ftilt/dash attack afterward. Jab is totally safe if you do it perfect--ftilt is safe up until the last 4 frames it comes out, and dash attack can get you deep into the middle of the stage. Ledge-dash roll is totally invincible as well. If you get good at reverse ledge-dashing try to incorporate the FF into it as well...it's totally invincible if you do that perfect, and it's an amazing bait.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I do what ace does, I find it easier than ****ing around with the c stick, but do what is comfortable. Practice on temple because there's that ledge you can grab in the middle of the stage, so if you mess up, you don't die

 

[OliClutch117]

So I find it impossible to recover against Falco and Marth. I just get daired by Falco and Fsmashed by Marth. Help Me!

 

[bertbusdriver]

learn to ledge tech.

sometimes you have to recover high and eat a bunch of percentage and try to recover continuously until the mess up or kill you.

there's not much more you can do about it. ganon's recovery sucks

 

[OliClutch117]

there's not much more you can do about it. ganon's recovery sucks

No words have ever been truer.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Listen to Bert, he's a wise man. Ledge tech jump, bair or up-b. I like bair because its faster so they don't react to it and have ****ty di. It can kill on yoshis, and guarantee a safe return.

A falco dair is unbeatable, as my friend the bus driver mentioned, ganons recovery is so so so so ****ty. Never recover below stage vs falco. You just won't return.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya vs Falco, recovering high is pretty much always the best option because at least you can make him guess. So when you get hit hard, DI upwards! lol.

Dont always down-B right after you get out of stun either, delay it.. mix up fast falls and non fast falls. If you are in range to up-b to be able to get to the stage, don't down-b simple as that because if you down-B you'll likely be already too close to the ledge and you'll get hit out of it. Just watch where the opponent is going or wants to go to kill you. Know how far they can jump off-stage safely or non-safely if you are at your last stock, you have to watch that too.

If you have to recover low then.. try to sweetspot or hug the wall if you can.. then you can SDI tech the dair or dsmash.

Edit: Thats actually not a bad idea Pseudo for the ledge. Hyrule is where I learned how to tech first, you just fight in the bottom part and then you learn the timing of it pretty fast since you bounce off everywhere if you fail lol.

 

[OliClutch117]

Against Falco I think I have made it back on stage a total of 2 times.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Pretty sure I hold the record at five. Although I have beaten ONE decent falco in tournament. Due to luck. But still a win. That up-b when they're shielding on a platform dude that **** is broken.

 

[tm]

woah this thread is still active. What up ganons? (I haven't been around here for a while)

in my experience (which is quite limited) falco SHOULD be able to kill you every time you recover low with B up, but that doesn't mean they will. If they stand by the edge and SH dair or stand by the ledge and dsmash or grab the edge and ledgehop dair, you can either 1) ride the side of the stage, DI the hit in and tech, or 2) try to sweetspot =horizontally=, being just slightly out of range of the hit but still able to grab the ledge. I think this is underrated and most people don't expect ganon to be able to dodge a hit and still make it onstage (a lot like marths up b)

If you get the tech you basically have three main options:
1) if he's still close to the edge, walltechjump bair to knock him away, then up B recover while he's gone.
This seems really good but a lot of times they won't be in range of the hit, in which case you're back where you started with more damage.
2) walltech up b. (you can land onstage or on the ledge after it connects, depending on where you got him from)
This is good because it's unshieldable and fast/ hard for them to punish. Problem is, if they tech roll in after getting blasted away, they can reach the edge before you at low %s, and just dsmash / dair / whatever and you're basically dead.
3) walltechjump airdodge onstage.
I don't do this much but it might be pretty good. although it's probably really easy for falco to punish your landing, maybe try wavedashing onto the ledge and immediately sheilding/ rolling (probably difficult, but also probably worth learning)


good / experienced ganons: please analyze / critique this (good and bad)
I tend to theorycraft better than I perform, but your opinions on this would help me out a lot too.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I don't think air dodge would work. But bair and up b are good options.

 

[bertbusdriver]

I don't think air dodge would work. But bair and up b are good options.

i think it should work. It'd be the same principle as the walljump airdodge recovery that SS did pretty often with falcon

 

[-ACE-]

It's a lot harder with Ganon because of his size though and basically leaves him wide open for punishment....

 

[bertbusdriver]

It's a lot harder with Ganon because of his size though and basically leaves him wide open for punishment....

You could take this quote out of context and it would still apply to basically any discussion regarding ganon.

 

[-ACE-]

You could take this quote out of context and it would still apply to basically any discussion regarding ganon.

Not really, lol. Maybe in this particular case I should have said how ridiculously impractical it is? You are basically limited to airdodge UP+IN to get on stage because of his legs, whereas some other characters' legs just go through the stage. So they can airdodge straight or even waveland onto the stage after the walljump. Ganon just airdodges up, falls, and gets punished.... unless someone is so predictable that you know they are going to commit to something else and not cover the option.

 

[bertbusdriver]

I agree that it's a mediocre option, but I don't think it should be ruled out. Is it a fairly easy to punish option? Absolutely. But other options in this situation are similarly punishable. Once you've established to your opponent that you will exercise those attacking options off ledge, it makes sense to mix in another option. You're relying on them to be ill-positioned/whiffing on your vulnerability in order to survive, but that will be the case regardless of your choice of options.

An analogy I have in mind is utilizing your no-tech option when getting techchased by falcon. They're incredibly likely to **** you up since it's non-optimal, but you're already in a nonoptimal situation. You should mix in as many of your options as possible.

 

[-ACE-]

I agree that it's a mediocre option, but I don't think it should be ruled out. Is it a fairly easy to punish option? Absolutely. But other options in this situation are similarly punishable. Once you've established to your opponent that you will exercise those attacking options off ledge, it makes sense to mix in another option. You're relying on them to be ill-positioned/whiffing on your vulnerability in order to survive, but that will be the case regardless of your choice of options.

Well I wouldn't rule it out completely, but damn it's almost the epitome of situational, especially since it's a far worse option with Ganon than it is with many other characters. Let's not talk like all options are punishable either. If they are at med% or higher, the walltech bair is safe (and you should be able to know whether it would hit him or not and make your decision based on his spacing). You also don't have to walltech. Regular ledge tech to up-B is also really safe in that situation... do i don't think you're relying on your opponent to goof up is always the case.

An analogy I have in mind is utilizing your no-tech option when getting techchased by falcon. They're incredibly likely to **** you up since it's non-optimal, but you're already in a nonoptimal situation. You should mix in as many of your options as possible.

It totally depends on his option coverage you have observed previously when you tech. Of course you should mix things up, but you should be able to make a sound decision if you can get into your opponent's head at all.

 

[Superspright]

You can delay your option longer on your ledge-techs as well and wall jumps. He gets more invincibility than any other character.

 

[Dorsey]

Joe you still coming to NC? Let me know about when and I'll make sure the crew is here

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo Jesse I'm trying to find the time off work still, but what with me taking a week off already with evo, I can't 100% guarantee it, but hell I'm trying! If I do, it'll be somewhere near the end of July.

trail said he would accompany me as well. Should be a bomb ass time dude.

 

[-ACE-]

I am about to be off work in 1 week for about a month. I have some plans so it's not like I'll be lounging at home the whole time but that could be an opportune time. we'll see

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Sounds good man. I'll hit you guys up on facebook or something soon.

 

[Renth]

I need to play more RockCrock is beating me way too much ;(

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Kage, so what's the deal? You going to evo or not dude?

Supposedly rockcrock is pretty good at dittos renth

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Kage you're going to be at Impulse right? We have to play!

 

[Renth]

Kage, so what's the deal? You going to evo or not dude?

Supposedly rockcrock is pretty good at dittos renth

It's not just dittos bro, he beats me with half the cast. He's a very good player.