Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Bl@ckChris]

Lol ian we did that to each other like a million times when we were in nc. Its better invincible by the way. Works wonders on marth if u can force the right angle.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

just to clarify, there is no such thing as the ****ing tipman spike, it is, always has been, and always will BE the ****ing Eddie spike, RESPECT UR ELDERS.

 

[Renth]

I learned a bunch of tricks from tipman, no idea who or what an eddie is really.

Also, regardless to whomever I would learn something from I'd never call it "the tipman/eddie/hamsterwheelexploder" I call it. reverse up air edge guard cause.. thats what it is.

I don't give things names.

edit: I lied

I totally call this The RockCrock.

 

[lotor611]

haha. good stuff, Renth! i didnt know that was called the rockcrock. i saw you do that to scar in a friendly at big house 2 and assumed it was called the Renth cuz you did it so well.
p.s. im a big fan of your ganon

 

[Renth]

haha. good stuff, Renth! i didnt know that was called the rockcrock. i saw you do that to scar in a friendly at big house 2 and assumed it was called the Renth cuz you did it so well.
p.s. im a big fan of your ganon

I was very disappointed the way I performed at that event. I do so much better in friendlies *rolls eyes*

Thank you though, Hope you enjoyed it I was playing well against him.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

I learned a bunch of tricks from tipman, no idea who or what an eddie is really.

this is why i beat your *** in this game, Eddie is only the father of ****ing ganon you scrub. do you even play this game? learn your smash history.

 

[Renth]

this is why i beat your *** in this game, Eddie is only the father of ****ing ganon you scrub. do you even play this game? learn your smash history.

Relax, I know who Eddie is. I'm just a tipman kinda guy feel me? Eddie was the guy who beat people using only f air ~> jab.

(if you haven't noticed by now, i'm fu_cking with you.)

 

[Bl@ckChris]

you're both so funny. i didn't get a good chance to play or hang out with either of you, and that disappoints me. the weekend is never long enough...

 

[Renth]

you're both so funny. i didn't get a good chance to play or hang out with either of you, and that disappoints me. the weekend is never long enough...

I tried talking to you You were like Yo I gotta go play and ran away.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

sorry about that. i'm weird sometimes. since i didn't spend much time playing pools matches at all, i probably had an urge to play friendlies, which in retrospect surprises me. idk what i thought was more important, but i was probably wrong

 

[Nakamaru]

anytime i sit down to play renth i'll grab you instead. He'll have more fun and won't have to worry about dying from too much salt.

 

[Renth]

anytime i sit down to play renth i'll grab you instead. He'll have more fun and won't have to worry about dying from too much salt.

You had me raging so hard hahhaha. It's a healthy rage though, there's no malice or anything behind it. It just drives me insane that I cannot beat you anymore. Those Winners/Grand finals we played at the hotel I was trying hard, your zero deaths on me were straight up unbelievable. I really wish we had recorded them, next time I'm in Pittsburgh I will MM you for a negligible amount. I want another shot at you 3/5. Remember, even though you have my number winners finals was 2-2

I also watched you annihilate other ganon players so it's not so bad, I get some twisted pleasure in watching you **** ganons that aren't me.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

I also watched you annihilate other ganon players so it's not so bad, I get some twisted pleasure in watching you **** ganons that aren't me.

this is how i feel about PP going marth against armada. i was like "holy ****, it looks like another tuesday afternoon for kevin." even though he lost, it was very enjoyable to watch him tear into other people for a while.

edit: and naka, you're someone i always want to play, but rarely am i able to. there are so many places i wish i could live, and pittsburgh is certainly on that list.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

so i never see any other ganondorfs do ledgedrop uair on anyone.

so not true. Watch me play Marth, falcon, or ganon and it's basically my go-to edge guard.

 

[-ACE-]

so i never see any other ganondorfs do ledgedrop uair on anyone.

gonna go ahead and patent that as the eikeldrop from now on.

eikeldrop can also be combined with dair as a mixup instead of doing dair to dair. uair after dair covers a meteor cancel much better than dair does a majority of the time. especially vs falcon and in the mirror.

I'll have you know that you actually do this too much sometimes lol, I was able to bait it and kill you in a tourney a long time ago. But you're right it's really good. I've been doing it for years. Sometimes bair is better but usually ledgedrop uair kills anything.

just to clarify, there is no such thing as the ****ing tipman spike, it is, always has been, and always will BE the ****ing Eddie spike, RESPECT UR ELDERS.

Dude it's the Tipman spike. End of discussion.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Dude it's the Tipman spike. End of discussion.

your on ****ing drugs

 

[Linguini]

It's the tipman spike bud, lol.

Yo so i've kinda been having the urge to play ganon lately hmm....too bad there's no tournies around me, and I gotta wipe off the rust first...

 

[Renth]

It's the tipman spike bud, lol.

Yo so i've kinda been having the urge to play ganon lately hmm....too bad there's no tournies around me, and I gotta wipe off the rust first...

Chaddd was talking about coming back too.


Always glad to have you around Emillio. You can finally teach me how not to lose to every falco in the world

 

[Superspright]

I don't understand why people don't PS Falco's aerials more. With Powershield->shield SDI you can evade attacks and then punish with ftilt/jab. If you know he will merely shine grab you will still be out of range most likely. Wavedashing OoS is not that good in this match-up because you can just get baited and punished for it. I just feel like you need to intuitively know Falco's timings in order to get a hit--you have to make the read and be confident it will work.

If you want to beat falco's laser game I came up with a difficult to implement solution but I've been seeing its efficacy. Just like ICE uses Marth's shield mechanic of crouching to easily PS lasers and approaches you can use your DD to do the same thing. When you dash away then shield your shield pops up farther behind you thus making PSing his lasers far easier. When I get the rhythm for it I can get 3-4 in a row on a real human. I haven't been able to practice it much but it shows more promise than the 'run up to him' and PS crap. The window extends at least 3-4 frames more for getting the PS since the laser crosses over where your shield WILL be a little longer than where you actually are. If you add in c-stick up to buffer a jump and WD OoS--it can be very good for using Falco's own lasers to approach--another approach that pops up is from PS->Roll behind as well since we roll roughly as fast as his laser--you can definitely jab him, or even grab him since he has to turn around/run away to beat it and I think you have like a slight frame advantage.

I just feel this match-up is relatively hopeless until you can stop his rhythm of lasering you and then creating openings. The lasers are not scary at all. They are just a distraction for the most part, but the lasers that are very close are combo lasers and those HAVE to be either reflected (and then WD OoS) or move yourself away so it doesn't combo anymore.

I'm not a professional though and I've only played a couple of people who could/do make it into bracket at regionals/nationals.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Eddie spike

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Eddie spike

at least someone has a pair of balls around here.

 

[bubbaking]

I don't understand why people don't PS Falco's aerials more. With Powershield->shield SDI you can evade attacks and then punish with ftilt/jab. If you know he will merely shine grab you will still be out of range most likely. Wavedashing OoS is not that good in this match-up because you can just get baited and punished for it. I just feel like you need to intuitively know Falco's timings in order to get a hit--you have to make the read and be confident it will work.

This sounds so hard and unreliable though when Falco can change the timing of his aerials at will...

 

[Renth]

at least someone has a pair of balls around here.

You guys can pay your respects to whomever you like

Eddie wasn't an inspiration to me back when I started in 05. I don't know why this is even an argument, I don't call it a tipman or an eddie anyway.

Also, The only things I know about Falco is the stuff emillio/chaddd taught me in person..

Jump over lasers punch him, if he's going to double laser from the ledge crouch cancel jab, try to trade his high down airs with your u air. ect.

 

[bubbaking]

Will CC jab work against double laser > shine? I try to do that with Samus and it works sometimes and doesn't work at others, and I'm the heavier character...

 

[PseudoTurtle]

You guys can pay your respects to whomever you like

You guys gotta understand that Eddie was one of the very top players way back when, he was from the midwest and played ganon. Try winning a national nowadays with ganon lol.

All that aside, Tipman totally changed the metagame and was also an awesome and extremely smart player.

On another note, I have learned the Marth matchup. And all this falco talk has me realizing: I don't know how to fight falco or fox. This causes me problems in tournament. The problem with falco is that even if I jump over his lasers, he just backs up and keeps shooting or something.

 

[Divinokage]

Kage spike, **** both sides! lol.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

how many people have won a national level tournament with ganondorf before?

only eddie and kage have iirc.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

how many people have won a national level tournament with ganondorf before?

only eddie and kage have iirc.

I believe that is correct.

Lol ****ing Kage. Kage spike, I'm loving it.

 

[Superspright]

This sounds so hard and unreliable though when Falco can change the timing of his aerials at will...

Yes, and here is the contingency for that: hit em first then. If you get him conditioned to know that you will PS ANY rising aerial (which is fairly easy to do), then you should be able to beat his options since he'll be picking sub-optimal timings. You expose the weaknesses of rising aerials and then he has to change his timings to later aerials which are not good against Ganon on paper--you can definitely hit a falco out of his jump if he waits to hit you. He can then mix it up again and go back to rising aerials, but all we need is one good opening to clean up.

You people need to develop balls of steel or something. I know it's hard to be 'fearless' in this game, but Ganon just frankly is not scary at all. A video game is NOT scary. A character in a video game is certainly NOT SCARY. Our aggressive options are a farce. They do not work. But our defensive options can work, and expose weaknesses in some matchups. Falco has glaring holes in his game if you can PS his rising aerials. Late aerials are not as good to PS (and in fact may be worthless to PS), but if you've conditioned him away from rising aerials, then you can go to the second layer of yomi and beat him with a quickly snapped uair or ftilt, or just grabbing him.

PS->Jab doesn't work unless your opponent over commits on their aerial a bit, but PS->Ftilt can work if they don't react to the PS shenanigans. Powershields save my life all the time, but I still haven't found a really effective way to use them 100% of the time. I can wavedash out of them, and side-b out of them reliably--especially against a firebird/firefox if I bait them to hit me by throwing out an early aerial and they expect to catch me in the lag.

Also, nothing is remotely hard in this game--just slightly difficult. Armada wins nationals with peach--that in theory bros is impossible, or near impossible, and he does it consistently because it's not actually as hard as people think it is. If it was as hard as we assumed, then no one would be able to do what he does on a regular basis. It's like saying bees cannot fly because we cannot intuitively grasp how they gain lift--but we just aren't seeing the whole picture here. Ganon is a purely reactive, and highly defensive character. You dance to THEIR beat, not the other way around. He's not supposed to be breathing down your throat unless it's to finish you off.

Also about your CC jab thing...if you're talking about Samus, then I don't know. But I've heard from other players that wizkick works. You can duck the first laser and then hit them before the second one comes out.

Super secret tech: Dash grab them as the second laser comes out and it breaks the grab and tosses them to their doom. I've only done it once, and it was purely accidental and I doubt THAT could be done with any level of consistency.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

the kage special is so much more interesting. dairing under shields is soooo cool.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

loooool mark where you at

 

[Divinokage]

At least the special is a technique that every character can use if you understand how hitboxes work.

 

[Renth]

loooool mark where you at

It's all good Juggleguy put it into perspective for me. Though, It's something a lot of Ganons have done before. The name goes to whomever popularizes it. There for.. It is the Kage special though I'll never call it that

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

You were there?

Should have found/played me!

I was the guy in the cowboy hat. I actually did see you and Eikelmann playing. Not too fond of the Ganon ditto, but I should definitely do more of 'em. Played Eikelmann one round.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

dittos for every character are lame

except for bowser dittos

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Ganon dittos are the best. Some dittos are too fun. A pichu ditto... Those suck.

 

[bubbaking]

Pichu dittos are pretty darn fun! Two speedy little furballs, dashing around and mindgaming each other, doesn't get much more fun than that.

 

[Superspright]

At least the special is a technique that every character can use if you understand how hitboxes work.

How exactly DOES it work? I notice that some characters have their legs exposed when their shield is up. Marth is a REALLY good example of having exposed legs, or falco. I don't understand what you hit with, or where you hit--or how it even hits. I try to do it consistently but it just doesn't happen. I tend to shield push.

 

[bubbaking]

You have to hit their exposed hurtboxes (legs) with the top of the dair's hitbox so it shield pokes.

 

[Superspright]

Ah, so when the bubbles come out if you hit with the top one then it checks to see if it hit a shield and sees if it hit a hitbox--and the hitbox takes priority. Interesting. Now I can go practice that meaningfully.