Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RaphaelRobo]

I flick c stick away on the right hand side and down on the left hand side, then use the control stick to jump.

 

[Vionce]

I had a debate about this with tipman once. He always used c-stick to prevent any chance of a fastfall. I use down, and hit X as I roll the control stick to forward (haduken! lol). I'm hitting X frame perfect after the drop so there is no fastfall. If you are late one frame on the jump, everything else has to be perfect (must be on stage far enough before you land, must hit R at the perfect time). You need to be holding forward as soon as you jump, especially for RLD. Practice it until its muscle memory. I essentially never miss a ledgedash so I don't see a problem with using down to drop.

is it just me, or does RLD have stricter timing than forward?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It has stricter timing.

 

[Jockmaster]

I was working on it earlier using the control stick alone, I got like three wavelands out of probably 25 attempts... it seems like theres just a very precise timing where he is still in the jump animation and just above the ledge

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Yup, that's it. Keep practicing, and before you know it the timing will feel easy. I remember being like that when I first tried to learn it, now the timing seems extremely easy. Then again, I've been playing a lot of Fox recently, so anything seems easy compared to how quickly you have to press those buttons.

 

[G. Vice]

I use the analog only. That is, if we're still talking about wavelands from the ledge. I pull away ever so slightly then hold straight in to waveland.

Of course, I'm weird about lots of things. I also only use L to L-cancel, wavedash, waveland, shield drop, shield, roll, and wd oos too.

I never touch R.

 

[-ACE-]

is it just me, or does RLD have stricter timing than forward?

ONLY in the sense that you have to snap from forward to backwards as fast as possible after going from down to forward as fast as possible... just an extra step (and, well, now that I think about it, you get more forward movement out of your jump the sooner you jump, so you're right. But if you commit the ledgedrop to jump to frame perfect muscle memory, there isn't much of a difference). You also have to be far enough on the stage to RLD... you can do a regular ledgedash if you don't go from ledgedrop to forward fast enough, but for RLD ganon's body has to be completely over the stage or you will airdodge offstage to your death.

So, in short, yes, but the more consistent you get with your timing... the yes almost becomes a no. Kinda like, does Marth beat Fox? lol

 

[Bl@ckChris]

my name is blackchris, i RLD fair dr peepee's little brother in the face in tournament on the regular, and i approve the above statement.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Is it cool with you if I sig that?

 

[Jockmaster]

I use the analog only. That is, if we're still talking about wavelands from the ledge. I pull away ever so slightly then hold straight in to waveland.

Of course, I'm weird about lots of things. I also only use L to L-cancel, wavedash, waveland, shield drop, shield, roll, and wd oos too.

I never touch R.

I'm pretty much the opposite, I use L for wavedashing/landing and R for everything else (l-canceling, shielding, etc.)

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I use L for L-cancelling and Shielding, and R for everything else. Because R stands for Raphael. And Robo. So RR stands for RaphaelRobo. And the Red Ribbon army. So I was in Dragon Ball.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

...well i would be okay, but then that would imply that i approve of...whatever you post...which is usually a rare occurrence...

do as you wish.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Wow, I didn't even think about it implying that. I can always edit out the end, if you want. I don't approve of half the stuff I post either.

 

[-ACE-]

I could remove my Y and L buttons and wouldn't notice.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

^ I like you already :D


i totally forgot about smash this weekend tho sorry I was busy working and when I was off i was trying to fix my desktop. I think i've resigned it to the graveyard

Dude, dont even worry about it. We have all summer, starting in may for me, so its all good. And of course im looking forward to your tournament, i hope to play many friendlies with you and your crew!

Also, jockmaster, listen to raphael, the dude knows what hes talking about. Practice, practice, practice. It takes forever to get the hang of at first, but then it becomes second nature. After that, mix it up; practice reverse ledge dash (RLD). I got that so now even it is second nature (its a total b*tch to learn tho), but super useful in my experience.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I found RLD pretty easy to learn. Once I could ledgedash, waveland, etc without trouble I decided to tackle RLD. I got it on my first go, and kept getting it. I'm working on edge-cancelling and powershielding at the moment, but I'm getting pretty accurate at both of those.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Raphael, try RLD to edge cancelled dair/ fair. Not sure of how useful either of them really are, but its a very cool bit of tech flashiness and gives you the right to say "look what I can do." haha

Also, a question regarding falcon: in my experience, getting close to falcon is intimidating for ganon, but once you can do it, it scares the living hell out of falcon and then you're free to abuse him with grabs (my only hope vs falcon) and jabs. This true?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I don't see the point in an RLD edge-cancel dair, doing a ledgehop edge-cancel dair seems faster and easier. I'll give the Fair a try, though. That one sounds pretty cool.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I don't see the point in an RLD edge-cancel dair, doing a ledgehop edge-cancel dair seems faster and easier. I'll give the Fair a try, though. That one sounds pretty cool.

ledge hop dair is impossible, or at least highly impractical though, isn't it? Seeing as the hitbox doesn't come out in time. Although I could be wrong and maybe I'm just doing it too slowly. Try it and lemme know!

 

[Divinokage]

RLD into Dair? Hm... that would work if you expect a grab but that's kinda very risky since they can also aerial you and you also have 0 room.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yea, i figured it wasnt too practical, more just for show in a random friendly or total noob haha.

So i just saw spider sense rocking the RLD to fair that i keep going on about. First time i actually saw it done and i guess it actually works well in high level play. My favorite tech trick by far.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya RLD into Fair spaced off-stage is actually pretty safe since you'll have time to grab the edge before your opponent can do anything.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

ledge hop dair is impossible, or at least highly impractical though, isn't it? Seeing as the hitbox doesn't come out in time. Although I could be wrong and maybe I'm just doing it too slowly. Try it and lemme know!

I pulled it off once by accident. I'm not entirely sure how, but it'll be awesome if I can replicate it.

 

[-ACE-]

RLD into Dair? Hm... that would work if you expect a grab but that's kinda very risky since they can also aerial you and you also have 0 room.

True but all RLD applications carry a big risk as you've used your dj, and the dair yields high reward in most situations. Plus, it's ******** but RLD will surprise virtually ANY PLAYER, especially the first time. They are just never expecting it it seems.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

RLD dropzone dair

 

[-ACE-]

RLD dropzone dair

I LOVE THIS. I do it quite a bit lol, idk why I just really like it. It's better than ledgehop to pivot dash dropzone dair because Ganon's heel is at the center of the hitbox. His toe on the other hand, isn't really disjointed at all.

Other applications I like:
RLD uair to DJ uair (everything must be frame perfect essentially to make it back to the ledge)
RLD bair to uair (SUPER situational I'll admit, but this can lead to an insane gimp when someone is at low%. You also have an extra frame due to bair's IASA)
RLD to DJ bair/uair (SUPER underused. Imagine ledgehop bair/uair but with more range. It's never expected unlike the ledgehop bair/uair)

This is another level for the Ganon metagame. Sure, lots of Ganon's can RLD. But how many times do you ACTUALLY see it used appropriately, where some light is shed on it's true potential? Kage never does it. Linguini never does it. I haven't seen RockCrock do it either. Not even Tipman has exhausted it's resources. GET THIS MOVE DOWN. Fear of SD should not be an issue!!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I LOVE THIS. I do it quite a bit lol, idk why I just really like it. It's better than ledgehop to pivot dash dropzone dair because Ganon's heel is at the center of the hitbox. His toe on the other hand, isn't really disjointed at all.

Other applications I like:
RLD uair to DJ uair (everything must be frame perfect essentially to make it back to the ledge)
RLD bair to uair (SUPER situational I'll admit, but this can lead to an insane gimp when someone is at low%. You also have an extra frame due to bair's IASA)
RLD to DJ bair/uair (SUPER underused. Imagine ledgehop bair/uair but with more range. It's never expected unlike the ledgehop bair/uair)

This is another level for the Ganon metagame. Sure, lots of Ganon's can RLD. But how many times do you ACTUALLY see it used appropriately, where some light is shed on it's true potential? Kage never does it. Linguini never does it. I haven't seen RockCrock do it either. Not even Tipman has exhausted it's resources. GET THIS MOVE DOWN. Fear of SD should not be an issue!!

Ace, I couldn't agree more with you on this one! I use RLD to fair and RLD to uair (this is if ledge drop uair can't quite cut it) quite frequently and I'd like to see more of it as well. But I have actually seen RockCrock do it. He used the RLD to dropzone dair and RLD to uair before and it's pretty raw. And tipman is the only one ive seen to use RLD to DJ uair-- and it was AWESOME! It covered every option; even though he actually missed with it, he was still able to get the edgeguard because it left eggm with only one option.

Read this dude's post!!! This is my absolute favorite tech trick and I need to see it more often, I literally have had 100% success rate with RLD to fair my first time using it on an unsuspecting opponent, and it even worked against dmac and darkrain (some of the only legitimate hits I got tho) so I know that it's a legit trick... cuz those dudes know how to play the game haha.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

RLD dj uair edgeguard seems hella strong if you can grab edge after the uair (you do, right?)

vs fox: RDL dj uair (covers towards stage and edge), LD uair (covers high options).

vs samus: RDL dj uair, drop uair (double uair spike)


god i want to play ganon right now and practice this

 

[PseudoTurtle]

RLD dj uair edgeguard seems hella strong if you can grab edge after the uair (you do, right?)

vs fox: RDL dj uair (covers towards stage and edge), LD uair (covers high options).

vs samus: RDL dj uair, drop uair (double uair spike)

Both of those combos sound so sick. I'm gonna try to make a mental note to try them out.

I feel so comfortable on the edge, especially when edgeguarding. The coolest thing I've ever done from the edge (this was on falcon) was LD DJ uair to edgehog (the timing is very precise) to LD uair. Both of these techs were made popular by Tipman and I hate that they aren't used as much either. I know for a fact by watching some of your guys' vids that LD DJ uair to edge hog is not used as often as it should be. In my opinion, it is a very underused tech.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

just to be clear, i meant LD to be ledgedash not ledge drop. Also my post had RDL not RLD xD too lazy to fix.

Can we agree on terms? perhaps LWD, RLWD and LD?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

hahaha gotcha, yea you got it, I meant ledge drop. Im not sure if you can do a ledge dash after RLD DJ uair tho. Gotta try it and see.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

one thing i don't see many ganons do is continually waveland off the edge and double jump back on and repeat. it basically allows for any of the RLD techniques but you just start from the stage.

it seems to give people a false sense of security since we're not actually on the edge, but you can choose when you want to slide off and grab the edge or slide off and uair or slide off and dj uair at any moment.

i saw chaddd doing it at my first tournament and i didn't understand why or how he was doing it lmao.

 

[-ACE-]

RLD dj uair edgeguard seems hella strong if you can grab edge after the uair (you do, right?)

Yeah, it's sorta like this except from a ledgedash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt1Hd8PfwVs#t=3m18s

or like I suggested first aerial can be bair, you make it back from both, bair a frame easier.

Haha chris I do that a lot but I think I used to do it TOO often, the dj fastfall waveland is fast but it is still a small commitment, so if timed wrong you could have just started your DJ when you wish you could have on the ledge that very instant.

I like doing stuff like, RLD, DJ back onstage, waveland towards center of stage into reverse moonwalk... Lol... I don't care if it helps you win matches or not that **** is sweet haha

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yeah but if you do RLWD dj uair (regrab) LD uair you still have your DJ so you can go for a dair if you choose :D

 

[-ACE-]

You can regrab from a ledgehop uair also if everything's frame perfect. Then are you saying RLD uair to DJ dair? that's **** but suicide.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yeah but you already have 2 uair tips so you can just upb. If its last stock you can DJ dair

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Moonwalking. Thats the one tech trick i just cant do, no matter how much i practice. Man, i cant even do it in training mode in 1/4 speed lmao. But luckily for me, only tipman has found a potential use for it, and it didn't actually work, so i dont know if its even worth practicing besides for flashiness. But, like ace said, that **** looks mad sweet haha.

Ok guys, its official. Im gonna work on every single RLD mix up today for a good half hour or so and post results.

...and if anybody has any advice on how to moonwalk, id appreciate it haha as much as i deny its usability, id still like to learn how to do it

 

[Bl@ckChris]

half circle back.

fast.

 

[G. Vice]

Moonwalk isn't hard. But it is just one of those things that either you can do or you can't.

Personally? I can't wall jump...yeah it's ******** but I don't even try to do that stuff below the ledge. I can only do it like on the mountain on pokemon stadium. If I'm CF trying to recover? I can't mix that wall jump into my recovery

Also ACE, Imma include a special section in Devour 3 just for you with RLD gimps and finishes.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Hmm, interesting. Bummer, i guess ill never be able to moonwalk then. Ah well, i guess its not that important anyway.

And i would love to see RLD gimps in devour 3.