Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

If you're having Link problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but an elf ain't one. LOL

The key to link is patience. Catch bombs or eat them up with good spacing (fair/bair, catch bombs midair with Z). Bair, fair, and ftilt work best against the boomerang. Stay mobile and keep him guessing, or else a good link can make your life hell with projectiles. Strongest opener is a stomp to grab, and then chaingrab. Do NOT waste grabs. You should be using dthrow more than anything. You can chaingrab link until 74% before the dthrow, so on FD once you grab link, he shouldn't leave your possession until he has over 90% (end cg with bair/fair). He'll most likely be offstage at that point too. Reverse uair spike his sweetspot attempts, and space a bair on the front of his head if you know the up-B will overshoot. If he DI's the bair correctly he won't die, but you'll have an easier edgeguard opportunity on his next up-B. When you know he's going to grapple, try to tipman spike him right when you think he'll snap to the ledge, as it can beat even the grapple sweetspot and is safe since you never have to leave the stage. Edgeguarding link is simple and a lot of Ganons **** it up. Bair oos is pretty useful in close, go for the shield poke on the top of link's head.

 

[spider_sense]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EOkCpVuSQro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsJhfOvLLAU&feature=related

New vids of Emilio and I. (More to come)

 

[-ACE-]

Lol @ jason not even trying vs yoshi hahha

 

[Linguini]

i know. i guess you've been getting rusty or something since you've been in gville. you going to apex emilio?

nah lol, i'm not rusty at all...you win some you lose some, and yeah i'm going

 

[RaphaelRobo]

So today I made a connection that should have been obvious. The fact that Ganon's Dair hitbox is his whole body means I can intentionally hit them with any part of it, not just by accident. The extra options that gives me should be helpful.

As an extension of that, I worked out that if I short hop Dair on battlefield, I hit the person above me with my face. This seems useful, though I can't imagine myself using it often. It's just not as fast as the Uair, and even if I L-Cancel I'm still down too long if I miss. It does seem better than USmashing through the platform. Am I right about all of this? If not, can you explain why?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i love techchasing with my neck. if they don't di that dair very hard, you can find ways to get up there and hit them. the uair is the safer option, but the neck-dair is just soooo fun. sometimes against fox you can neck dair through the platform and still get up there in time to upsmash. they end up so sad about how the hitstun is so long and things of the like. soooo good.

edit: it can be hard to do this, but it might be possible to shield poke peoples feet with a neck dair. it's not something i've particularly looked into myself, but it sounds like it's worth a shot. dairing under peoples shield on the ground is a hobby of mine, and it should work on platforms as well, once you understand the hitbox well enough.

 

[-ACE-]

You can definitely shield poke people with the upper portion of dair's hitbox.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

That's pretty awesome. I'm going to try it next time someone uses a shield on me.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

hey people.

know how people go into free fall when they get forced off a platform while in shield if they get knocked off with their back to the edge?

if people are shielding on platforms we should force them off and then jab them on the way down. if they're at a decent percent, they will fall past the edge, which makes for a free runoff ganonshine (untechable tipman into the stage) or simple dair edgeguard.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

When rolling/dodging/throwing, do people use the control stick, c stick, or both? Is there an advantage to using one over the other?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

during shield pressure, the cstick will allow you to roll on the first frame possible. this is pretty desirable.

during cg's, i usually end up more accurate getting the dthrow with down on the cstick. sometimes i do the wrong throw because of how i hold the control stick at an angle, but any time i aim for down on the cstick, i usually get the right throw.

 

[-ACE-]

Same here, exactly.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

That sounds like a pretty good reason to use the C stick, I'm going to switch to it.

Today while playing on Yoshi's Island, I did a side throw so my opponent would hit the flying red things, leaving him in a perfect position for an F-air, which I then did and KOed him. Would this work against a good player?

Also, on Kongo Jungle 64, I comboed an opponent, did a Dash Attack to get him in the air, then ran off the edge (as part of the Dash Attack), performed a second jump, and hit the opponent with an UpB. Would this work against a good player, or would he see the UpB coming? My plan was to make them think I'd suicided (Using a Dash Attack would hopefully make them think going off the edge was an accident), then hit them with the UpB as a surprise.

 

[-ACE-]

good players will SDI the hits on fly guys or whatever they're called and get away from you

the up-b is situational but they don't expect it that often

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I'm surprised people don't expect it. While it's very situational, it's also extremely useful in those situations. Using it when they shield and think I'm out of grabbing range is useful. I also found today that, if they're close enough, I can grab them with it while facing the opposite direction. That seems like a good trick to use during matches.

Anyway, I'm starting to get the hang of using the various forms of dashes in combat, and my Ganon's getting a lot faster. I picked up a US Copy of melee today, and after streaming an AR to my cube, I had all the characters and stages unlocked. Being able to play Melee on TV and not have everything in black and white is really useful.

I'm really looking forward to the next NCSU so I can see how my skills compare to other peoples. In other words, I'm looking forward to getting beaten up really badly and learning a bunch of new stuff from it.

EDIT: One question, though. When I first came here I was consistently 3-4 stocking Lv9 CPUs. Now that I can do all of this decently, and my Ganon's moving a lot more quickly, I barely have 1 stock left when I beat them, and I lose half the time. Does this just mean I'm not good enough at having those techniques in my gameplay yet?

EDIT2: Alright, I worked out why I was losing. When practicing the various forms of dashing, I'd been neglecting other parts of my game, so I was missing easy edgeguards and my defense was terrible. From now on I'll train everything equally.

 

[Geenareeno]

Playing computers can get you into really bad habits, just so you know.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Yeah, I know. I just need someone to go up against that doesn't just sit there and let me beat them up. I try not to play against them too often. Plus, a Lv9 is harder to beat than most of the people I know.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

join this group, get up with "tyler lee farrell" he lives in holly springs:

http://www.facebook.com/groups/276445842390059/

you need real opponents. there are a multitude in raleigh. and it seems tac has a car now, so you two should get in contact sooner than later.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Unfortunately I don't use Facebook.

My current plan is to meet some people in person at NCSU, and after that start to have games with real opponents.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ah okay. well, i guess that'll work. i guess just keep working on movement and understanding the extent of your hitboxes until then. you'll need them.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I'd like to work on ledgehopping, ledgedashing, and reverseledgedashing now. My other techniques (wavedashing, landdashing, platformdashing) aren't amazing, but I can perform them in the middle of combat without too much difficulty.

When I ledge hop, should it look like my character rolls for a bit and then starts walking on the stage? If so, then I can do it decently. If not, then what should it look like?

Am I correct in saying a Ledgedash is like a Ledge hop, except you air dodge onto the stage instead of walking? So it should look the same, except with a dash instead of a hop?

I looked a few pages back when we were talking about reverse ledge dashes (about a week ago), so I think I have an idea for what the timing should be like. I know there's also that Ace v Link video that should show me what a Reverse Ledge Dash looks like. I'm planning to watch it a few times later today.

On a side note, I've been messing around on a lot of stages recently. I have to say, I really like FoD. The moving platforms screw me up a lot, but I notice when my opponent goes off stage I'm willing to jump a lot further out to edgeguard them, but I'm usually able to get back from jumping that far off. I find it fun to perform something risky like that and have it work out. Plus, if I can do it consistently, it won't be risky anymore.

 

[Superspright]

If you want to be really good then you need to stop concentrating on your character and more on theirs. Ledge-dashing is useful, but you should practice on Hyrule for a while until you get it down--then work on reverse ledge-dashes. You should wait for the first frame you are above stage then waveland in.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Thanks for the idea about using Hyrule. I'd been practicing on Battlefield, but Hyrule seems a lot better.

What do you mean by focusing on their character? Do you mean focusing on what they're doing? Or do you mean knowing how each character in the game moves? I do try to keep track of what they do in game. I know edge guarding is a very important part of playing Ganon, and I think (correct me if I'm wrong) an important part of edge guarding is knowing how opponents recover and what options they have available. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate further.

My thoughts, at the moment, are that I'm trying to learn all these techniques so I can have a lot of options in combat, giving me the ability to approach a situation in many different ways. I was thinking, once I get to the point where I can perform all of these techniques consistently, I would move onto trying to fight real people with them, which would give me experience in both trying to read opponents and getting better at the techniques. What do you think of this strategy for learning the game?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

you'll learn quickly that going offstage has it's uses, but it will often become the fastest way to die. there's a lot of things ganon can do offstage, and i'm also trying to find them, but as many ways as there are to kill things offstage, theres as many ways to avoid them, and then we're in horrible situations.

this video was my favorite for a while: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxWYMqFEsTM it shows pretty much all the slide things you should want to know.

 

[bliu12]

if i waveland off of a platform and wanted to waveland on the stage, should i fastfall the time inbetween? or do i just fall at a normal speed?

 

[G. Vice]

if i waveland off of a platform and wanted to waveland on the stage, should i fastfall the time inbetween? or do i just fall at a normal speed?

You can do either, but obviously the speed at which you fall is going to affect the timing, as well as make you faster/slower. I guess it's situational, but primarily I fast fall everything between.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

looool

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It's simple - Ganon actually was in the game.

You know how they had to censor the ending of every Zelda game because Link made too much of a scene when he lost?

They had to censor a lot out of this game.

 

[-ACE-]

Fastfall between the wavelands! It's a lot easier

 

[Geenareeno]

Fastfall between the wavelands! It's a lot easier

I need to start doing this. I am currently doing it with regular fall speed to make it easier but I can see how shaving off a lot of frames of a sh wl could be beneficial. You actually think it's easier when you fast fall?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

technically yes. it gives you a better window for the second waveland. technically it gives you something more, but since you cover more ground each frame, you have a better chance of being detected on the ground if you fastfall, meaning that you'll get the waveland more often.

i need to get all the timings back for the fastfall wavelands before i go to rom. i haven't been keeping up with my techskill, and even though solid play has got me placing well, i'm going to need that extra burst to make my move now.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah, you have like a 2 frame window vs a 1. either that or it's like 2 versus 3 idk. maybe more than 1 frame difference because it is definitely noticeable, this is fact. Plus you'll be a much better player if you train yourself to fastfall whenever possible imo, not saying you should ff every time in tournament lol, but it will make you a lot faster, and speed means a lot at high level play for ganon.

 

[Geenareeno]

Yeah, you have like a 2 frame window vs a 1. either that or it's like 2 versus 3 idk. maybe more than 1 frame difference because it is definitely noticeable, this is fact. Plus you'll be a much better player if you train yourself to fastfall whenever possible imo, not saying you should ff every time in tournament lol, but it will make you a lot faster, and speed means a lot at high level play for ganon.

Ahh that reminds me of the arguement we had in this thread awhile ago about ff'ing everything. But yeah I definitely see the merits.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It's interesting that FFing is easier. I'll try to do it more often. A lot of the time I try to FF too early in the jump, but it's something I'm sure I'd get the hang of with practice.

Also, I have a question. Whenever I play melee, I always play Purple Ganon. I've noticed in videos that Kage seems to always play Green Ganon, while Chaddd and Linguini are always Purple. Is it common for people to play a specific color? If there's a ditto between two players who want to be the same color, who gets to be that color? Is it whoever gets to the color first? Or is it the best player? Or is the person wearing the most of that color?

 

[Jane]

i main blue ganon. all of his colors are cool though. except red. **** red ganon.

 

[-ACE-]

I usually play default or sometimes red ganon lol, dunno why.

 

[G. Vice]

Brown. Ganon all the way boysssss

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i main purpledorf. one of my alternate tags is the Darkness. Purpledorf is the darkest lol.

when we play, we can rock paper scissors over it raphael lol.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya I used to play purple for a while but then I switched to green because green is my favorite color. =P

 

[RaphaelRobo]

i main purpledorf. one of my alternate tags is the Darkness. Purpledorf is the darkest lol.

when we play, we can rock paper scissors over it raphael lol.

I have four purple business shirts. If I wear all four, does that mean I automatically win?

On the other hand, I could texture hack the game so every Ganon was purple. I'd need a console that could run it, though, unlike mine.