How to Beat Flaco, Fox, and Wolf?

[lax guy5]

I was just practicing offline with Ike on a lvl 9. (I make the cpu random) I got Fox and I started playing against him with a stock of 3 lives. Ussualy, I can beat lvl 9s. But against Fox, he killed me without loosing a life. So any tips for him, Falco, and Wolf? Thanx!

 

[PltnmNgl]

You should play people before you get caught up in the idiosyncrasies of computer players. That said, people are probably much more campy than the computer. I'll be back to talk about the matchups later, though...

 

[lax guy5]

Thanx for the help but I still need more replies!

 

[ptown]

try the jab combo! then try hogging the edge: be greedy, it's okay! really!

 

[Rykoshet]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FjldM3h66q4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Usqu7Y8QvrQ

Yes I realize this isnt an absolute since players play differently etc. Falco shouldnt even be a problem to you honestly. Just get used to standing your ground and shielding/spot dodging a lot for falco, for wolf... screw it, I'd rather play marth, and I suck with marth.

 

[PCHU]

Kill them.
It seems like the most efficient way of dealing with all the characters.

Okay, jokes aside, Spotdodging works wonders.
If Fox is dangerously close and you're at a relatively 'better watch out' percentage (like 90%), then chances are he's going to usmash.
Based on my experience as a Fox mainer (I main Fox, Falco, Ike, and Marth), It would either be that or some other smash.
The Fox you're playing against would have to be rather stupid to not.
Most don't see it coming unless it's boosted.
So, what you do is counter.
I know it's a sucky move in general, but it helps out a lot if you time it right.

Counter makes him think twice about his moves and when to use them.
Also try uthrow-> Aether.
Then try it again.
If they don't DI far enough, it works.
Fthrow chain is nice.....for a while.

SH'd aerials WILL get you far.
Be careful with fair, as it's rather slow.
People don't expect boosted usmashes, since you're Ike.
Fsmash them when they're climbing back to the stage.
Predict their rolls and fsmash.
With good timing, Ike can be an absolute beast.

 

[Yaya]

Basically, What I do to beat Fox, with ANY character, is pick Pikachu as a counterpick, Chaingrab him to 90 and F-Smash Him.

No I do not Main Pika.

 

[Rykoshet]

How is that uh... beating him with any character? That's beating fox with pikachu.

 

[Kirk]

How is that uh... beating him with any character?

You see...to beat a Fox...with ANY character at all...you HAVE to pick Pikachu as your character. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Well, for one thing.

Your doomed, a level 9 threestocked you, you're not very good.

And Wolf, Falco, and Fox **** Ike, don't listen to the idiots who think camping isn't a huge thing for Ike. It destroys him.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Can fox really camp though? I thought the problem against him was that he could juggle Ike around like crazy.

 

[Rykoshet]

Fox's issue isnt camping -_-

Falco is actually not as much of a "omfg" blowout as people think, his issue is the limited recovery options when you do corner him.

Wolf, even with his ****ty recovery, pisses me off to no end.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Eh, camping was the main point, Fox can camp, doesn't stop Ike but the damage is damage nonetheless. Just his quick nature in general ***** Ike. Sorry if I was a bit unclear, on a sugar high atm.


And uh, no, Falco sodomizes Ike, what the **** are you talking about. He chain grabs his ***, spams him with the laser, is so much quicker and can punish pretty much anything Ike has, I could continue, seriously, face reality.

And you guys should come to know the term 'brickwalling'. You obviously have no grasp on the concept whatsoever.

You guys keep refuting his weaknesses, and no progress will be made. Quit being idiots and get a counter pick.

 

[Rykoshet]

Falco has advantages against ike, but you're once again making blanket statements focused on one thing. It's well established that it's not that people are unaware of ike's limitations, you're just so dead set to ****bag the character that you'll accept word as law instead of attempting to figure it out yourself. I have a harder time against falco as marth than I do as ike, and I'll be the first to say that statement is heavily modified with "beyond the first 60%".

You wanna talk about progress being made? Last I checked the players actually using the ****ing character instead of *****ing moaning pissing and whining about how much he sucks and how it should be dropped are the ones attempting to make progress, **** off with that backhanded bull**** statement. If you spent half the time playing that you did ****ing trolling this wouldn't remotely bother me as much.

 

[Empy]

SH'd aerials WILL get you far.
Be careful with fair, as it's rather slow.
Fsmash them when they're climbing back to the stage.

@bold, except against Wolf, cuz he will side-b you out of them.

@italic, fair is slow but still very good. Fsmash is slow and not so good, certainly not when people come back to the stage. Which is when fair is one of your greater weapons.

Eh, camping was the main point, Fox can camp, doesn't stop Ike but the damage is damage nonetheless. Just his quick nature in general ***** Ike. Sorry if I was a bit unclear, on a sugar high atm.

Nah the main point is utilt and dair.

 

[Empy]

Reserved for other people

Spoiler

Yes I double posted.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Falco has advantages against ike, but you're once again making blanket statements focused on one thing. It's well established that it's not that people are unaware of ike's limitations, you're just so dead set to ****bag the character that you'll accept word as law instead of attempting to figure it out yourself. I have a harder time against falco as marth than I do as ike, and I'll be the first to say that statement is heavily modified with "beyond the first 60%".

You wanna talk about progress being made? Last I checked the players actually using the ****ing character instead of *****ing moaning pissing and whining about how much he sucks and how it should be dropped are the ones attempting to make progress, **** off with that backhanded bull**** statement. If you spent half the time playing that you did ****ing trolling this wouldn't remotely bother me as much.

I never whined about Ike in this thread. I said the idea he could beat an equally skilled space animal is just wrong.

Wow, you took what I said and made it levels deeper than it is at face value. Falco owns Ike, was the point, good sir. not, "lol Ike suxorz dun use him nub"

And the fact most people here when talking about how camping isn't that bad dun know **** about the concept and use of brickwalling stands.

One moar thing, wf, how do you have more trouble against Falco with Marth than Ike.


(Oh wait, one more thing, Empy, the camping thing was kinda applied to the Space animals and all spammers in general. Thought I made that clear in the post you quoted, quit continuing the pointless discussion of "lol you got it wrong".)

 

[Empy]

(Oh wait, one more thing, Empy, the camping thing was kinda applied to the Space animals and all spammers in general. Thought I made that clear in the post you quoted, quit continuing the pointless discussion of "lol you got it wrong".)

Sorry about that. Anyway, I still think camping isn't the major problem with any space animal. They aren't as good at it as a lot of other characters imo.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Sorry about that. Anyway, I still think camping isn't the major problem with any space animal. They aren't as good at it as a lot of other characters imo.

Valid point.

Eh, the other main thing bad for Ike is just the fact he gets sodomized by a lot of cheap stuff. Wolf kinda has this problem, but his set backs aren't quite as bad as Ike's.

 

[Rykoshet]

I know what brickwalling is, I also know that the knockback on a blocked reflector, and the stun from his lasers assuming you do get up in his face, even if it does hit you, is not enough to get him away from jab range/speed (meaning even if he does hit you with a laser at a very close range he can't get another shot or any action off in time before you can get your fist out). If the goal is to camp his *** to hell and back then he's going to attempt to make a getaway, and quickdraw can cover enough distance following falco that you can continue to stay up in his face. Falco's best option against ike is to cross you up, projectile dodging is not a tough concept, it's not like his have variable trajectories like link's either. The reason I have a harder time as marth than I do as ike is because he's so prone to getting knocked far away and has to break into a dash if he wants to follow falco after a getaway, marth's options out of a dash that actually keep momentum aside from his aerials (which marth is just as prone to getting shot out of as ike is) frankly suck a barrel full of donkey *****.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I know what brickwalling is, I also know that the knockback on a blocked reflector, and the stun from his lasers assuming you do get up from his face even if it does hit you are not enough to get him away from jab range/speed (meaning even if he does hit you with a laser at a very close range he can't get another shot or any action off in time before you can get your fist out)

I stopped at this part because of how wrong it was... Falco can get in your face, fire a laser and immediately follow it up. That, and it's hard to read seeing how the post seeems to be missing words.

"the stun from his lasers assuming you do get up from his face even if it does hit you are not enough to get him away from jab range/speed"-

I assume the second part was supposed to be fast enough, I have no idea wtf "getting up from his face" means.

And the funny thing is, the guys you seem to love, who are discussing Ike and 'making progress' are the ones say Falco is a big *** counter.

Falco can easily chain grab Ike and spike him, if this hasn't happened to you, your opposing Falco sucks ***. Falco has so many more options than Ike, and can easily rack up damage on him, unlike Ike who has the jab, and that's it.

 

[Rykoshet]

It was supposed to be in his face, not from his face. Secondly, you can add a comma before and after "If it does hit you" to make sense of the statement. And I've been hit by falco's laser at point blank countless times, he can't do another action faster than you can jab after being hit by it. Falco can chain grab ike up to 60, getting spiked is entirely your own fault for DIing poorly or attempting to quickly jump back towards the stage, falco landing the spike out of a chain grab has absolutely everything to do with the ike ****ing up, not the falco being spectacular. If you DI backwards and continue to fall the falco has to dive hard to land the down air, at which point you're well far enough away to air dodge the thing. Secondly, even if you do get hit, pre-60 the down air is still not enough to send ike careening downwards without being able to meteor cancel and aether back up (I'll get video of it later this week to prove it but I'll use marth's downair pre-60 to show you that ike can make it back, http://youtube.com/watch?v=DhLutjt34Rg&fmt=18). Once again play the ****ing character more than enough to ***** about it and stop running into **** headfirst acting like ike is somehow incapable of defending himself.

A spike on ike has to have 1 of 3 things to actually successfully kill him without a question. A long *** stun (Ganondorf, Zelda, Ike's down tilt), a ridiculous downward speed upon connection (Ness, Ganondorf, and Ike's down air), or an outward trajectory (shine spike). Falco's has none of the 3.

Your disagreeing with something doesn't automatically make it wrong, your choosing not to read so you don't have to justify yourself beyond "Hey listen to me this is how it is **** the fact that you've been playing the character steadily" is also just frankly ********.

 

[Falconv1.0]

It was supposed to be in his face, not from his face. Secondly, you can add a comma before and after "If it does hit you" to make sense of the statement. And I've been hit by falco's laser at point blank countless times, he can't do another action faster than you can jab after being hit by it. Falco can chain grab ike up to 60, getting spiked is entirely your own fault for DIing poorly or attempting to quickly jump back towards the stage, falco landing the spike out of a chain grab has absolutely everything to do with the ike ****ing up, not the falco being spectacular. If you DI backwards and continue to fall the falco has to dive hard to land the down air, at which point you're well far enough away to air dodge the thing. Secondly, even if you do get hit, pre-60 the down air is still not enough to send ike careening downwards without being able to meteor cancel and aether back up (I'll get video of it later this week to prove it but I'll use marth's downair pre-60 to show you that ike can make it back, http://youtube.com/watch?v=DhLutjt34Rg&fmt=18). Once again play the ****ing character more than enough to ***** about it and stop running into **** headfirst acting like ike is somehow incapable of defending himself.

A spike on ike has to have 1 of 3 things to actually successfully kill him without a question. A long *** stun (Ganondorf, Zelda, Ike's down tilt), a ridiculous downward speed upon connection (Ness, Ganondorf, and Ike's down air), or an outward trajectory (shine spike). Falco's has none of the 3.

Your disagreeing with something doesn't automatically make it wrong, your choosing not to read so you don't have to justify yourself beyond "Hey listen to me this is how it is **** the fact that you've been playing the character steadily" is also just frankly ********.

The fact Falco can CG him to 60% is pretty ****ing bad, IMO.

In that vid, I could be wrong, but it seems like edge hogging would've stopped Ike. He just decided to land on the stage when he could've easily fallen over to grab the edge.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5IgaK9SaiM
1:19 says hai

BTW, calm the **** down.

EDIT:Also, dair when spiked right hits you very far down.

 

[Kirk]

In that vid, I could be wrong, but it seems like edge hogging would've stopped Ike.

In that particular case, Marth was still in Dair landing lag, so no he could not have edgehogged in time.

 

[Falconv1.0]

In that particular case, Marth was still in Dair landing lag, so no he could not have edgehogged in time.

Figured as much, thanks for clearing that up. Wait...., he could've just gone for the edge and never touched the floor and made it there before Ike.

EDIT:BTW, Ryko, I'm done with you. Falco beats Ike pretty bad, end of story. A chain grab to 60% is a pretty ****ing massive problem in itself. I cant say Ike has a chance with a straight face knowing that exists.

And quit saying I'm '*****ing' about him. I supported development for Ike since the freaking beginning, if i say he has a something bad going for him, maybe I'm just facing reality and being a smart person. I'm saying using Ike against Falco is kinda stupid, thus, these threads of "how do I beat 'Flaco and Wolf and Fox' are ****ing pointless because in an equal skill situation, you're ****ed.


And the aweseome part is he actually needed help against cpu's, sillybear.

 

[Rykoshet]

"Very far down" assuming you're meteor canceling is honestly not far enough, I was practically offscreen at in that vid and didn't have my second jump. If you save your double jump for after you get hit by the dair, assuming you do in the first place which is honestly not a given at all, ike 9 times out of 10 in a situation where he's still chain grabbable can make it back on top of the stage with aether, let alone grab the ledge.

 

[Falconv1.0]

When I say I'm done with you, i thought you'd have the courtesy to drop it. Seriously.


Like I said before, if he falls over to the edge, you're ****ed. You should've been ****ed in that vid, lol.

 

[Nowaytoeatatater]

Who's Flaco?

 

[Rykoshet]

When I say I'm done with you, i thought you'd have the courtesy to drop it. Seriously.

Rykoshet: Today, 03:46 PM

Last edited by Falconv1.0; Today at 03:49 PM.

Posted well before you made your edit, so don't act like I read it then chose to ignore it. Secondly, what courtesy is there to be had for someone who actually thinks dismissing someone who they haven't refuted in the slightest is some way to end a conversation? Your "end of story" reasons frankly all suck. A heavy character getting to 60 is not a deal breaker, and that is the end of story. In that video there's no way that marth would have been able to kill me, he would have still been in down air animation had he aimed to grab the ledge after spiking me and missed it himself, he did everything correctly there. Do yourself a favor and come up with something other than "because I say so", that ****'s a ****ing joke.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Posted well before you made your edit, so don't act like I read it then chose to ignore it. Secondly, what courtesy is there to be had for someone who actually thinks dismissing someone who they haven't refuted in the slightest is some way to end a conversation? Your "end of story" reasons frankly all suck. A heavy character getting to 60 is not a deal breaker, and that is the end of story. In that video there's no way that marth would have been able to kill me, he would have still been in down air animation had he aimed to grab the ledge after spiking me and missed it himself, he did everything correctly there. Do yourself a favor and come up with something other than "because I say so", that ****'s a ****ing joke.

Once again, Calm. The hell. Down.

And uh, no, when I say I'm done with you, I'm tired of arguing something that apparently every other smart mind on this board seems to agree with.

Not to mention you yourself made super inaccurate points like Falco cant follow up a laser in the air with a ground attack.


EDIT:Also, the courtesy is to leave someone the hell alone when they are tired of this kind of ****.

 

[Rykoshet]

I never mentioned an air laser, if you see falco jump your reaction should be to block immediately, if you're at point blank the reaction should be to block and then hit A. Before you say "who would be so stupid as to fire a laser on the ground", I've been hit by the second shot of a SHDL and acted directly out of it, the stun on it is disruptive yes but it's not a lockdown. As far as this topic goes it's been 1 mind to 1 mind, every "smart mind" hasn't bothered to chime in on this, you just thump the smash bible wildly then take exception to the fact that someone is gonna say "uh no, it's not as simple as you think".

 

[Falconv1.0]

I never mentioned an air laser, if you see falco jump your reaction should be to block immediately, if you're at point blank the reaction should be to block and then hit A. Before you say "who would be so stupid as to fire a laser on the ground", I've been hit by the second shot of a SHDL and acted directly out of it, the stun on it is disruptive yes but it's not a lockdown. As far as this topic goes it's been 1 mind to 1 mind, every "smart mind" hasn't bothered to chime in on this, you just thump the smash bible wildly then take exception to the fact that someone is gonna say "uh no, it's not as simple as you think".

The secret Ike was bad against Falco was discovered years ago by Kirk and Empy. And Umbreon seems to agree from statements I've seen.


Let's calm that temper, m'kay? Can we agree Falco is a heavy counter on Ike, and you just have to try making me look bad, or do you seriously believe Ike has a chance. (Well I mean everyone has a chance but come on, this is just stacked really bad for Ike.)

 

[Rykoshet]

Sorry, I don't agree. The same way I didnt agree 3 months ago when I was told "zomg zelda ***** ike for free" from authorities on both ends, and that story changed right quick. **** is stupid as hell, I can acknowledge a character's strong points and my own's lacking points and still think I stand more than a chance. Like I said, I find wolf the hardest of the 3 personally.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Sorry, I don't agree. The same way I didnt agree 3 months ago when I was told "zomg zelda ***** ike for free" from authorities on both ends, and that story changed right quick. **** is stupid as hell, I can acknowledge a character's strong points and my own's lacking points and still think I stand more than a chance. Like I said, I find wolf the hardest of the 3 personally.

The thing is the whole Falco thing has outlasted the Zelda thing, it's not discussed much, or even at all.

And yeah, Wolf is a ***** to fight with Ike.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Report button says hi

 

[nessmarcobrawl2]

oh stop it im leaving

 

[Falconv1.0]

oh stop it im leaving

Too late nub.

 

[PCHU]

Wow, this has went pretty far.
I've dealt with spacies before.
Don't get grabbed by Falco.
Easy as that.

SH'd nairs work like a charm, because the sword is swung farthest around.
Bairs are only predictable if you do them often.
If you knock an opponent off, THINK before trying to meteor.
That could save you a stock.

 

[OmegaXF]

Well when Wolf is off of the stage his best recovery is wolf illusion. So your well timed Fair off the edge should be able to gimp him fairly easy. Also Fox=2 good recoverys for fox illusion GL with that lol but with Fox fire your well timed Dair, Fair, Or Aether can effectively edge guard. As for Falco. He should never use up b and if he does just grab the ledge. When he does Over B, Just try to figure out his best option and destroy i twith yet again a well timed aerial.

 

[Rykoshet]

Here's one against a wolf player, I'll be playing spacies quite a bit in the next week or so so I'll see what I can do about coming up with vids just for posterity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXTLjg6fkWQ&fmt=18