How Super Smash Bros Brawl SHOULD be.

[Jopaan]

Understand that a scrub is not necessarily a casual player, skilled people can also be scrubs, read http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermedia...ing-the-scrub/ it will tell you EXACTLY what a scrub really is.

Yes, but the term scrub, no matter what it means, sounds offensive. People don't like being put into classes.

 

[Pika Pika Pi]

Ok I dunno about you guys, but I'm getting board of this place and listening to Jopann and Volerc (apperantly you haven't because you haven't responded back to them). If you don't want to play our way then don't come to our tournaments. I mean it was your choice to come to a place WHERE WE PLAY. Its like a Dog going to drink milk with cats instead of eating the dog food.

Well good, that means you're leaving. Maybe when you come back you'll learn to actually contribute.

 

[NES n00b]

@Viewtiful Jeff Talking about people only using high tiers is moot because of it is a choice of the player what character they use (I use Link ). If you want to blame someone, blame the developers for not balancing the game more. Sheik, Marth, and Peach dominate casual play, too. Stages are meant to be neutral so that all characters stand on a somewhat equal level (counterpicks are there because there is no equal standing stage). Fun is subjective. I have fun going to tournies and a while ago I had fun playing casually.

In all tournaments, you have to conform to rules. If you think that you do not have to in any other tourney, you are naive.

Scrub is not a casual player. He is a player that makes up artificial rules and does not play to win. He does not like the metagame or the tourney level of play and complains about it. They say things are "cheap" or not "fun."

Edit: If people don't like being called scrubs, then how can you guys make classes and make assumptions about tourney players and still feel justified?

 

[Primetime84]

I believe this thread may have turned into what we all want in SSBB not what it should be like, cuz obv everbody's got their own opinion. But there's things I would do too:

1. Wavedashing can stay, it wasn't added totally intentionally in the first place so why get rid of it. If it was a glitch it would have def been removed.

2. Items are awesome and ofcourse they stay!! Some people just over think things so they believe it cheapens matches. I really don't think any items need to be added that I can think of. Other than the Pin Ball Bumper, any other item from SSB should return.

3. Stage-wise the more the merrier. I don't want all the stages back from SSBM ofcourse, but a few return stages to unlock would be nice (Flat Zone, Hyrule Temple, Kongo Jungle) And there should also be unlockable stages from SSB that weren't brought back in SSBM.

4. I really don't know about the Final Smash, it deff looks awesome. I highly doubt it will give characters, an unfair advantage. It just seems that the attack will overflow the board and wipe everything out, Bowser's Final Smash looks insane!!! I can't wait to use Giga Bowser!!

5. Moveset wise it would be wise to save some moves and ofcourse drop some character's moves. For examle Luigi's up+B from SSB was awesome, then in SSBM after doing it u would only drop straight down which was frustrating. But drop some moves, and add new ones.

6. Character wise all the originals have to return. And yes....even Jigglypuff I guess . She's a waste of space but w/e. I'm a Mr. G&W fan and will legitamately be dissapointed if he isn't in the game. I'd really like to see original movesets for Ganandorf, and Dr. Mario. Other characters i'd like to see get added are Earthworm Jim, Tom Nook, Dr. Wright would be interesting, Baby Bowser, NO PEACH, Toad, Megaman, Rayman, and Sonic I guess just b/c everbody else wants him.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Well good, that means you're leaving. Maybe when you come back you'll learn to actually contribute.

You see, this is what causes the all the spam. Why don't you just add more fuel to the fire will ya? Were not the ones who are adding fuel you guys are.

6. Character wise all the originals have to return. And yes....even Jigglypuff I guess . She's a waste of space but w/e.

Whats that supposed to mean? Jigglypuff is definatly not a waste of space, shes the second most popular pokemon. Jigglypuff is upper middle tier. Obviously you've never seen a good Jigglypuff player b4.

 

[NES n00b]

I gotta admit that both sides keep putting on fuel to the fire. Why don't we stick to the arguement and actually debate. No personal attacks or labeling.

Edit: Wow, no responses yet.

2nd Edit: Debate pleaze. I am not going to post again until an actual arguement comes up.

 

[maxpower1227]

You see, this is what causes the all the spam. Why don't you just add more fuel to the fire will ya? Were not the ones who are adding fuel you guys are.




Whats that supposed to mean? Jigglypuff is definatly not a waste of space, shes the second most popular pokemon. Jigglypuff is upper middle tier. Obviously you've never seen a good Jigglypuff player b4.

Actually, both sides are (plz see my last post. Kthx.)

 

[Jopaan]

You see, this is what causes the all the spam. Why don't you just add more fuel to the fire will ya? Were not the ones who are adding fuel you guys are.

Wrong. Both sides are adding fuel to the fire, and you're not making it any better by pointing fingers at a particular side.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Pika I think thats pretty low to taunt sombody who was just about to walk away like a mature person should. So all you do is add the humilation factor to it and then you make everybody mad. If a mod locks it then the person can't taunt back and everybody has to walk away. What the heck do I do to walk away without humilation? And I'm ignoring any anwsers from Pika or Jeff.

 

[mario-man]

3. Stage-wise the more the merrier. I don't want all the stages back from SSBM ofcourse, but a few return stages to unlock would be nice (Flat Zone, Hyrule Temple, Kongo Jungle) And there should also be unlockable stages from SSB that weren't brought back in SSBM.

Dude, Flat Zone sucks no matter how you play. Don't play on it.

 

[maxpower1227]

I loved Flat Zone. They'd better have a G&W stage in Brawl. I'm not sure what they could really do to make it new, so I wouldn't mind a retro stage (ha....) in that case.

 

[Volrec]

Yeahum, off topic, but learn to quote, mario-man.

 

[mario-man]

@ Volrec
I know how thanks. I accidently deleted more than I meant to, and part of the quote tags were apart of it.

 

[MrBird]

First of all, I think labeling of any kind towards another player is wrong. Scrubs? Come on, that's seriously a word that's, for lack of a better term, dumb. I'm not saying the guy isn't right, you should use what you can to win, but I'm not saying he is right either, considering he says to use any exploit you can to win, and then contradicts himself and says, well, some things are just TOO cheap to do. That's a weak argument. But, enough about sirlin...

I live in Georgia, and go to a college around here. Every year, there's a group of people who play very competitive Smash down in our student center. It's great. I love to go down there and use my wave-dashes and my short hops, and my L-Canceling, and everything else that makes this game uniquely challenging and surprisingly deep. It's fun, and very, very hard (especially since I play as Game and Watch most of the time).

But, then, I head back home, and I play with my girlfriend and my close friends. And, do you know what? I stop wave dashing, and I stop SHFFLing, and I stop L-Cancelling. I turn on every single item, and then set the item drops to high. I like to play on Hyrule with nothing but Bob-ombs and mines. I'll play as Bowser and make funny voices for him while they kick me around... The fact of the matter is that I play a completely different style with different people.

But, why? Because I'm having fun.

Casual players, please, I sympathize with you. I understand that wave-dashing wasn't intended. I'm not a terribly big fan of it, if for no other reason than Game and Watch sucks at it (or in general, really). I'd like to see it gone, along with many other things in Brawl. However, this doesn't mean I'm going to tell people they can't because I don't like it. Hell, I do it! The reason the tournament players do these things are either for A) To show how good they are, or B) To win. To them, these things are the most fun things to do in SSB. They don't need random elements to have fun. They don't need platforms, either! So, let them have their fun, and let them do their thing.

Tournament players, I've been to your tournaments. I am one of you! We have fun in our own rules sets, and we are the kings of Mano y Mano warfare! Keep your pokeballs, I've got fists! But, when a casual player turns on his items, and doesn't scoot across the entire map in mere seconds, leaving himself open to numerous attacks as he slams his sword in the ground and is stuck there for a full second, doing nothing, we shouldn't condemn him. He's having fun! Derogatory terms are stupid, and most of us realize that. Just because they don't play the way we do, doesn't make them bad, or stupid, or messed up in the heads. They're players, just like us, and they can play however they want to, with whatever elements they want to incorporate.


Look, everyone. Play the way you like to play. Do what YOU like to do. Don't hassle someone else for what they want in a game or how they end up playing it. We're all here because we love Super Smash Bros, aren't we? Who cares how we love it, we just do!! Let's just stop this ridiculous fighting, and agree that the game is one of our favorites of all time, if not THE best game of all time! It caters to whatever style you want to cater to!! Sometimes tournament players are going to be playing in games with items, sometimes casual gamers will have to deal with the eventual wave-dasher. But, in the end, aren't we here to play games and have fun?

Just consider it before anymore of this goes on.

 

[Bassoonist]

6. Character wise all the originals have to return. And yes....even Jigglypuff I guess . She's a waste of space but w/e. I'm a Mr. G&W fan and will legitamately be dissapointed if he isn't in the game. I'd really like to see original movesets for Ganandorf, and Dr. Mario. Other characters i'd like to see get added are Earthworm Jim, Tom Nook, Dr. Wright would be interesting, Baby Bowser, NO PEACH, Toad, Megaman, Rayman, and Sonic I guess just b/c everbody else wants him.

1. Dr. Wright isn't going to be a character, he's going to be an AT. This is confirmed.
2. Baby Bowser is a waste of space, Peach and Jigglypuff have nice unique movesets, thus neither are a "waste of space" nor should they be removed.
3. Earthworm Jim...?
4. Dr. Mario with an original moveset? Will you make one? I'd like to see one.

 

[greenblob]

How the hell is Jigglypuff a waste of space? I've heard so many noobs say that without giving any sort of argument that actually supports their statement (every single argument I've heard actually detracted from their statement).

Anyway, this is one Smasher's point of view:
Many people who are not very familiar with the tournament scene take a look at the setup and declare that competitive Smashers are boring. This is simply not the case. For me, the tournament layout greatly contributes to the fun factor. I primarily play Smash 64. You know, that game that was released in the 1990s (forgot). I got it about a year before Melee came out. Guess what: I'm still playing it. It's my most commonly played game. And if it weren't for competitive Smashing, I probably would've discarded it within a year.
Once I started competitive gaming, I felt as if I were at a whole new level...not a whole new level of skill, but of fun. It was more fun than that first night I plugged Smash into my N64.
And once you cross that line, you can't go back. It's painful for me to watch my friends play Smash. It's frustrating, tedious, and slow--I felt a part of myself dying as I watched them. And these are the friends who were with me the first time I played Smash.
I challenge everyone who hasn't already to try competitive Smashing and see where it goes. I'll bet that you'll be having the time of your lives.

 

[NES n00b]

I like wavedashing because it is fun by itself. It is just happens to also help you. Plus, G&W has a good wavedash, but yeah he sucks. Good luck winning with G&W, low tiers ftw.

Also, I am arguing, because their arguements to me are full of holes and I don't like that. I also don't like being told what to do or being criticized for playing in a way that is totally legit.

About Sirlin, he says to ban stuff only when it shallows the metagame like if only one character was playable no matter what.

Edit: Smash bros 64 I think was released in 1998.

Edit: If I am considered offensive, all I have to say is lol.

 

[Superstar]

Actually, most competitive players here [most] aren't attacking the casual players ways, but are mostly defensive. The "scrubs" are being offensive.

Also, when Sirlin mentioned ban, he also said you can't just actually go and ban stuff, that if you really beleive said tactic is cheap, go to tournaments and prove it. He also mentions that many scrubs wanna ban everything, and no matter how bad the word scrub sounds that was somehow the word that was picked.

I have nothing against casual players, play with items, I don't really care, if it let's you have fun so be it, but when a scrub [not casual player, scrub] attempts to tell me how I should play, saying my way of playing isn't "fun", and calls every possible tactic [like c-sticking in Melee, or switching in Pokemon] cheap, I get pissed, many people get pissed at that, and at times you just wanna blow their head off, which is why its difficult to stay defensive while such people keep going offensive on your way of playing.

 

[Tipo mastr]

Alright kiddies, let's clear some things up.

1: People's definition of "fun" can be different, just like some people have more fun playing soccer than they do baseball. This board was created as an environment for those with the same standards of "fun" as eachother. I'm sorry, but this board is largely a non-items, limited stage group. Therefore you should not be forcing your idea of "fun" down our throat.

2: Most people here have the mindset of "may the best man win". Not "may the man that gets luckiest with items win". Face it, the fact that different items land in different places contributes more randomness to the game. We prefer to let our skills with our respective characters do the talking, not that an item appeared close to us and we got it.

And expanding on 2: Most players think that winning is fun. So therefore they go to tournaments to try to win, and to socialize with other people with the same mindset as them. At tourneys, they use specific rules to limit the amount of randomness to a match, and "let the best man win". So if you want to win, and therefore go to tournaments so you can win, it would be safe to assume that you would train for the tournament using the same rules as the tournament, so you are more familiar with the rules, and therefore have a greater chance of winning.

Now I'm going to translate the above paragraph into simple, easy to understand english: If you don't play MLG rules, you are a loser.

 

[MrBird]

I agree with both of you guys, NES and Superstar... Except for the scrubs, thing, that...I mean, seriously, don't you feel a little... I don't know, don't you feel dumb saying that? I'm not saying you are, but, if I called someone a 'scrub', which immediately reminds me of 'no, I don't want no scrubs', I'd feel kinda...I dunno, dumb. Just seems silly.

But, I agree, to attack the way we play tournaments is wrong! Sure it is, no one should degrade anyone of their playing style. But, you should really just sort of leave it. If people are attacking, just say, well, then, don't play with us, and drop it. They're not really going to ever stop being upset about it, no matter how much good sense and reason you have. Flamers will flame, and others will listen, and agree to disagree.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Wow, this post really nailed it. You definitely right about a lot of things.

Wavedashing should definitely be gone. You see I came across this problem... I would win a match, but I don't wavedash. But even though I won people still said I was a bad player. That I didn't have any skill. Why? Because I didn't wavedash!

Wavedashing managed to cause some segragation between players. Wavedashers have fallen into some type of illusion that this glitch makes them better than others. Its breaking the game people! Falco shouldn't be able to perform his Reflect attack 5 times before Mario can punch once. Its so broken!

As for items and levels, both have been crushed due to pro players. People have removed items from their gameplay, in fact they hate them so much they decided to hate final smashes! And Final Destination is a bad level. Have Falco vs DK there, and lets see how fair the match is..... Seriously there are so many great levels and people have decided to ignore them just because Youtube videos only show Final D.

And Samus's Final is great! If anyone actually played the game, you would know its a bad thing to be Zero Samus. But that Zero Shot looks so sweet!

Also, characters should be more balanced. If the next game has 40 characters but people only use Marth, I would be upset. Use all of the characters people! The game was ment to be fun!

 

[Bassoonist]

Alright kiddies, let's clear some things up.

1: People's definition of "fun" can be different, just like some people have more fun playing soccer than they do baseball. This board was created as an environment for those with the same standards of "fun" as eachother. I'm sorry, but this board is largely a non-items, limited stage group. Therefore you should not be forcing your idea of "fun" down our throat.

2: Most people here have the mindset of "may the best man win". Not "may the man that gets luckiest with items win". Face it, the fact that different items land in different places contributes more randomness to the game. We prefer to let our skills with our respective characters do the talking, not that an item appeared close to us and we got it.

And expanding on 2: Most players think that winning is fun. So therefore they go to tournaments to try to win, and to socialize with other people with the same mindset as them. At tourneys, they use specific rules to limit the amount of randomness to a match, and "let the best man win". So if you want to win, and therefore go to tournaments so you can win, it would be safe to assume that you would train for the tournament using the same rules as the tournament, so you are more familiar with the rules, and therefore have a greater chance of winning.

Now I'm going to translate the above paragraph into simple, easy to understand english: If you don't play MLG rules, you are a loser.

So are you saying that those of us who play with items and have our idea of "fun" shouldn't even being posting on these forums?

Seriously, I have no problem with tournament play, and I don't mind people playing that way.

I thought this forum was for anybody who played Super Smash Bros. I guess I was terribly mistaken. I guess I'm also a loser for having my own way of playing the game... Thanks. >_>

 

[Kazuya]

So effectively, you want Brawl to be developed to suit your pathetic "requirements"?

Brawl should be as the progammers intend it to be - not as you wish it to be.

Wave Dashing should be removed, God could you have any less dignity right now?

I admire what you are trying to suggest, but this isn't a wrestling game here where you can button bash and have the occaisional 'combo' and ex[ect to do well against a pro.

WD IS NOT A GLITCH. IT IS PART OF THE GAMES PHYSICS, IT HAS ITS OWN ANIMATION. IT IS NOT A GLITCH. I'm a programmer + designer in the making. If WD was a glitch then you'd just Air Dodge into the ground and have no movement at all.

Sakurai did mean for gamers to AD into the ground and then slide towards the left or right. Hense why the animation is there, however what he didn't expect is people would exploit the physics of the game and use WDing as they do now. (The whole down left Jump are thing).

I want Crono to be in Brawl and want his A move to unleash a fury of strikes which result in an instant K.O. - but I dont make a thread about it.

Fact is, I don't care how YOU want it to be.

I care if you wan't to address a nonbiased issue or want have a new imaginative idea.

Which you don't have. So...


Bye.

 

[MrBird]

Now I'm going to translate the above paragraph into simple, easy to understand english: If you don't play MLG rules, you are a loser.

I agreed with everything you were saying up until this. You can't just generalize like that. They aren't losers because they don't agree with you.

 

[mario-man]

Wavedashing should definitely be gone. You see I came across this problem... I would win a match, but I don't wavedash. But even though I won people still said I was a bad player. That I didn't have any skill. Why? Because I didn't wavedash!

Well, the "advanced" players got sorely misrepresented. I apologize for their stupidness. Sorry if they've made you prejudice to advanced techs.

900 Posts!! Yayuhhz

 

[Tipo mastr]

So effectively, you want Brawl to be developed to suit your pathetic "requirements"?

I wasn't referring to brawl at all, if you didn't notice.

 

[NES n00b]

Falco's shine being able to do 5 shines before a punch is not because of wavedash (biggest exxageration ever). It is because a shine can be jumped out of and then use shine immediatly after. And there are more levels than Final D. In fact, I hate final d with link hate it hate it hate it. But I am a tourney player. How is this possible? Because there are more stages!!!!!!!!! Plus, if you are beating the peopl without wavedash you are the better player. no johns. People will always try to seperate people into classes.

Everyone thinks that Brawl should have more balance. >_>

Edit: This forum is for people who love Smash bros. Just be open minded and remember that people use advance techs and that there are casual players. Don't complain about how they play (you can complain about their reasoning or posts though. XD)

2nd Edit: he did not post about your arguement tipo-master

 

[Tipo mastr]

I agreed with everything you were saying up until this. You can't just generalize like that. They aren't losers because they don't agree with you.

The most simple statements are the easiest to understand, and often convey a lot of knowledge in a short amount of space. They are also most often wrong...It was a bit of a joke by me, sorry i didn't put sarcasm tags so you could have the joke spoonfed to you. =)

 

[_the_sandman_]

People should be able to play however they want. Its not fair for someone else to judge another just because they use items and don't wavedash.

If you can't handle different levels and improvising with the terrain and items, then you shouldn't call someone a bad player if they decide not to play on FD all the time.

 

[Bassoonist]

The most simple statements are the easiest to understand, and often convey a lot of knowledge in a short amount of space. They are also most often wrong...It was a bit of a joke by me, sorry i didn't put sarcasm tags so you could have the joke spoonfed to you. =)

That's not "spoonfeeding"

Your whole post seemed serious, so you would think that the last line is as well.

 

[MrBird]

Heh, it's all good. Sarcasm is hard to catch in text.

 

[Tipo mastr]

People should be able to play however they want. Its not fair for someone else to judge another just because they use items and don't wavedash.

If you can't handle different levels and improvising with the terrain and items, then you shouldn't call someone a bad player if they decide not to play on FD all the time.

1: We're not judging them, we're just telling them good luck getting tops in a tourney without advanced techniques.

2: Mhmm...so I should be able to "improvise" on the fact that certain stages blatantly benefit some characters, and that depending on pure luck, your opponent can get a bomb while i get a goldeen pokeball?

 

[Kazuya]

Tipo - Iwas referring to the thread creator, not you.

Repost:

So effectively, you want Brawl to be developed to suit your pathetic "requirements"?

Brawl should be as the progammers intend it to be - not as you wish it to be.

Wave Dashing should be removed, God could you have any less dignity right now?

I admire what you are trying to suggest, but this isn't a wrestling game here where you can button bash and have the occaisional 'combo' and ex[ect to do well against a pro.

WD IS NOT A GLITCH. IT IS PART OF THE GAMES PHYSICS, IT HAS ITS OWN ANIMATION. IT IS NOT A GLITCH. I'm a programmer + designer in the making. If WD was a glitch then you'd just Air Dodge into the ground and have no movement at all.

Sakurai did mean for gamers to AD into the ground and then slide towards the left or right. Hense why the animation is there, however what he didn't expect is people would exploit the physics of the game and use WDing as they do now. (The whole down left Jump are thing).

I want Crono to be in Brawl and want his A move to unleash a fury of strikes which result in an instant K.O. - but I dont make a thread about it.

Fact is, I don't care how YOU want it to be.

I care if you wan't to address a nonbiased issue or want have a new imaginative idea.

Which you don't have. So...


Bye.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Uh, you all notice that were talking to ourselves now don't you? Pika/Jeff(since they're the same person) have left apperantly.

 

[T-Rex]

2: Most people here have the mindset of "may the best man win". Not "may the man that gets luckiest with items win". Face it, the fact that different items land in different places contributes more randomness to the game. We prefer to let our skills with our respective characters do the talking, not that an item appeared close to us and we got it.

And expanding on 2: Most players think that winning is fun. So therefore they go to tournaments to try to win, and to socialize with other people with the same mindset as them. At tourneys, they use specific rules to limit the amount of randomness to a match, and "let the best man win". So if you want to win, and therefore go to tournaments so you can win, it would be safe to assume that you would train for the tournament using the same rules as the tournament, so you are more familiar with the rules, and therefore have a greater chance of winning.

Now I'm going to translate the above paragraph into simple, easy to understand english: If you don't play MLG rules, you are a loser.

/agreed

I will always play;
No Items
No Final Smashes
No Ghey Stages

Competitive formats are always the basis for games. It's the only way to play.

I mean come on, how fair is it, if you are about to kill someone at 100%+ and he grabs a maxim tomato? or a Pokeball with an Entei, or just about any other item that one sides the match.

The game should be played on the precedent of SKILL, the BEST PLAYER should win not the LUCKIEST. What fun is it if you are 1000x better than you friend, and he just gets a few lucky item drops and wins? That is not fun.

The only disadvantage a player should have is the actual skill of that character, Fox vs Pichu, I know the disadvantage but it would be my choice to go Pichu. The only disadvantage should be a disadvantage a player is willing to give himself, not a disadvantage due to circumstances such as a lucky item.

 

[Tipo mastr]

Tipo - Iwas referring to the thread creator, not you.QUOTE]


Noticed that just a bit late

 

[greenblob]

Just for reference, the term "scrub" is derived from the scrubbing motion of button mashing with the palm when playing arcade games.

 

[freeman123]

Viewtiful_Jeff
I have no doubt in my mind that this technique (or, glitch, really) should be completely removed from the game. It just doesn't serve any practical purpose.

Yes, it does. It might be removed anyway, but it is useful.

Viewtiful_Jeff
If it weren't there, I assure you, the majority of players would not miss it.

That's true, but if it were kept in the game would anybody complain?

Viewtiful_Jeff
Items are part of what make Smash Bros great, and the fact that it seems to be a prerequisite that they be turned off in tournaments (this is what I've heard) leaves me aghast.

Items being turned off in tournaments has nothing to do with how the game is being made.

As far as tournaments go, the people in charge of the tournaments will decide the rules and anyone who doesn't like them doesn't have to participate. You can pretty much count on items being turned off, though.

Viewtiful_Jeff
Items add a special thrill to the game.

Most people agree that items are fun, and I don't think anyone doesn't want them in the game, but that doesn't mean that they're good for tournaments. The rules are set to determine a winner with the least possibility of luck involved in the outcome.

Viewtiful_Jeff
A quick fact check will show you that pretty much every decent fighting game in the history of time has a Super system.

None of the Mortal Kombat games did.

Viewtiful_Jeff
In specific, I've seen a lot of naysaying on Samus's Final Smash, essentially confirming that an item is required to make the transformation to Zero Suit Samus.

That hasn't been confirmed at all. All that's been confirmed is that Samus's FS will be a way to play as Zero Suit Samus. I still think that there will be a way to start as ZSS.

Viewtiful_Jeff
As for the stages, (the "body" of Super Smash Bros, I believe I called them) while I can appreciate the simplicity of Battlefield and Final Destination, the insane regularity with which they're used is...somewhat disturbing. There are loads of stages, guys. Don't be afraid to branch out. A good stage makes you consider the terrain and either be wary of it or use it to your advantage (Mute City). A great stage will constantly keep you on your toes, either due to inherent peril, or because you were just given a narrow opportunity to open a can of whoopass, somehow (Brinstar Depths, for example). Of course, the fact that these two stages are banned from tournament use is quite startling, as they're two examples of great design, especially when they're turned away in favor of Final Destination, which is, quite literally, just one long platform. ...Seriously guys, let's have some variety.

Is this supposed to be about SSBB or tournament rules? Because you seem to keep switching from one to the other.

When you play at home you can play on any stage you want. If you go to a tournament then you have to play by the rules made by whoever is in charge of the tournament. If you don't like a tournament's rules you don't have to participate in it.

 

[Bassoonist]

/agreed

I will always play;
No Items
No Final Smashes
No Ghey Stages

Competitive formats are always the basis for games. It's the only way to play.

I mean come on, how fair is it, if you are about to kill someone at 100%+ and he grabs a maxim tomato? or a Pokeball with an Entei, or just about any other item that one sides the match.

The game should be played on the precedent of SKILL, the BEST PLAYER should win not the LUCKIEST. What fun is it if you are 1000x better than you friend, and he just gets a few lucky item drops and wins? That is not fun.

The only disadvantage a player should have is the actual skill of that character, Fox vs Pichu, I know the disadvantage but it would be my choice to go Pichu. The only disadvantage should be a disadvantage a player is willing to give himself, not a disadvantage due to circumstances such as a lucky item.

"The only way to play"?

My god, if a friend beats you because of an item, you just laugh and move on... it's not the end of the world...Super Smash Bros. Melee is a GAME!

If you want to play in tournaments without items it's all good (because in tournaments I could see that being a problem.), however don't tell anybody else how they should be playing the game.

 

[Salaad]

What I was trying to say all along is, that if casual players don't like Advanced Techs, that's not our problem. We should be able to WaveDash if we want to. Play any game, there will be glitches, and that's what brings in a lot of fun. I've been saying it over and over again, don't complain. Why don't you want to play with Advanced Techs? You want to play the game the way it was meant to be played? The way you play it and the way I play it are different things, but the same game. It's like a quarter, you got heads and tails. The thing that really ticks me off is that fact that some casual players complain and whine about exploiting Adv. techs. Calling us "Glitchers or Cheaters" Thats why some tourny players call them "scrubs". If the casual players wouldn't complain about such a thing, then there would be no war.


Don't complain about our playing styles, it's the way we play and playing with items is the way you play period.