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How Luigi's ATs Work (Currently: Autocanceling Aerials)

elheber

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How Luigi's ATs Work

Short Intro: This is a guide to understanding how exactly Luigi's Advanced Techniques work. I'll continue adding new ATs one by one, each time I get time, until I've exhausted my knowledge.

AD Buffering
Brawl has an input buffer of 10 frames; meaning that if you input an action but cannot perform that action yet, the game will reserve that input for a max of 10 frames (1/6th of a second) in case you're able to perform it then. You all do this normally all the time for things like Double Aerials.

The problem with trying to buffer a grounded attack upon landing is that Luigi's landlag is 2 frames (for a slow landing) or 4 frames (for a faster landing). If you try to Jab as soon as possible after landing, you only have 2 or 4 frames to buffer it in (instead of 10). Why? Because if you press A any earlier, you'll accidently nAir. You HAVE to press A within those 2 or 4 frames to buffer the input.

What's the solution? You AD before landing! By Airdodging as you land, you can safely press A before landing WITHOUT accidently doing an nAir. You are extending the time window you can buffer from 2 or 4 frames to a full 10 frames. Since you can't nAir during an AD, the game will instead buffer your A button press for 10 frames. With ADing as you land, you can now press A even before landing, making it way easier to buffer a ground attack. AD Buffering DOES NOT extend the 10 frames of buffer to some crazy number like 30 frames or something, but 1/6th of a second is a much easier time frame than 1/30th of a second. Thus, AD Buffering helps you perform your attacks upon landing ASAP much easier.

Dash Pivots and True Pivots
Why is it that when you do a Pivot Grab you'll sometimes slide backward and sometimes you won't? Why is it that sometimes when you try to do a Reverse Hyphen Smash you won't slide backward? Well... it has to do with Dash Pivots and True Pivots. If you try to Dash Dance (run left/right/left/right... really fast) you might notice that sometimes you'll pivot very quickly, and sometimes you'll just slide instead, depending on how well you dash dance. This is how it works and why this happens:

Luigi's Dash has 2 parts...

(thanks to YoshQ for this great GIF)​
  1. "Initial Dash" - Luigi lunges forward and quickly accellerates with a kickpush animation (really, it doesn't animate... it's just him with one leg forward and the other back as in the pic below). He'll make that unmistakable "dash sound effect" that almost sounds like a loud pound as dust kicks up behind him. This part of the dash is really really short so you have to be quick to input anything if you want to do it during this stage.
  2. "Full Dash" - After the first part is over, he goes into a running animation where his legs are actually moving. The accelleration is already over and you're now moving at Luigi's max dash speed.

If you were to pivot during the "initial dash" you would do a True Pivot where Luigi instantly turns around. But if you were to pivot a little later during the "full dash", you'd do a regular Dash Pivot that has Luigi slide backward and only start dashing in the other direction after his previous momentum finishes. Sometimes you're accidently not sliding during your Pivot Grab or Reverse Hyphen Smash because you accidently pivoted too soon. Or inversely, you can't Dash Dance right because the "initial dash" after a True Pivot is very very short and you're pivoting too late.

If you stop a dash before the "full dash" happens, you'll be doing a Foxtrot, otherwise Luigi will slide forward.

Reverse Hyphen Smash
The hitbox of Luigi's uSmash first comes out from the back of his head and it has more range behind him than in front, so why aren't you using it instead of the regular Hyphen Smash? If you know exactly why you aren't using it and that reason isn't "becase I don't know how," then read on.

It sounds simple: Dash -> Pivot -> uSmash. But you still can't get it 100% of the time can you? Well, you (should have) read in the previous section that the dash has 2 parts: the "initial dash" and the "full dash". If you pivot during the initial dash into a RHS, you'll do a True Pivot and not slide at all. This means that unlike the regular Hyphen Smash YOU CANNOT do a RHS out of a stand-still; you MUST BE in a full dash to do the RHS correctly.

Still can't do it 100%? You must have tap-jump off. You see, when you do a Dash Pivot, you end up with a lengthy Dash Pivot Lag from which you will never escape. Or it seems, at least. You can't shield, attack, move, or do much of anything until the lag ends. Not even an up-smash. No worries... the Dash Pivot Lag will automatically end when you stop sliding... "But wait, elheber, I don't want to stop sliding for my RHS!" Yar, you're right, but you can interrupt that lag with a Jump Cancel! Just press jump as you do your uSmash and you're golden. Solid gold. The jump will cancel the dash pivot lag, and the uSmash will cancel the jump! Effing genius! People with tap-jump on automatically jump (and therefore jumpcancel) right before the uSmash because they smash the analog up. You just have to manually press jump to copy them.

Quick recap: Full Dash (not initial dash) -> Dash Pivot (not true pivot) -> Jump + Up + A. The jump is where the magic happens. You should get used to pressing jump even for regular Hyphen Smashes. You should also get used to pressing jump even for grounded FJPs for the same reason (you can't dash pivot FJP without a jump cancel).

Autocanceling Aerials
Warning: Here Be Math!
The most famous autocancelable aerial in Brawl is the dAir of Ganon (who is the autocancel god), which gave rise to Thunderstorming. Autocanceling allows you to interrupt your aerial attack's lag by landing (if it's timed well).

First of all, you should know that landing normally leaves you with 2 frames of landlag for slow landings, and 4 frames of landlag for hard landings.

Each aerial has a certain amount of frames that cannot be interrupted, followed by a few frames of animation that can be interrupted by any other input (aka IASA frames). For instance, his uAir lasts 29 uninterruptable frames... in other words, it is Interruptable As Soon As the 30th frame.

Moreover, each aerial has its own "aerial landlag" -that is, lag for landing in the middle of an aerial attack. Luigi's fAir "karate chop to the ground" aerial landlag, for example, is his worst, lasting 22 whole uninterruptable frames! BUT, each aerial also has certain autocancelable frames which will NOT leave Luigi with aerial landlag. The uAir, for example, is autocancelable as soon as the 19th frame.

For the most part, each of Luigi's Aerial's autocancelable frames begin about 4-5 frames sooner than their IASA frames... which about makes up for the 2-4 frames of lag you get for regular landlag. The exceptions are his nAir and uAir, which autocancel WAY before he can interrupt them with IASA frames (nAir doesn't even have IASA frames). But the real magic is landing without the punishment of aerial landlag. Luigi's shorthop lasts 51 frames of air time, in that space he can perform 8 different aerial strings that autocancel or otherwise leave him without landlag. EIGHT! Ganon, the king of autocancel, only has three!

For info on which aerials leave Luigi without any landlag, look for Aerial String Analysis in the LBI. 'Til next time.

UP NEXT... not sure yet

Updates:
15-August-2009: Added Dash Pivot and True Pivot.
19-August-2009: Added Reverse Hyphen Smash.
22-August-2009: Added a .gif by YoshQ of Luigi initiating a dash. Thanks YoshQ.
23-August-2009: Added Autocanceling Aerials.
 

Locuan

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Elhe, I found something interesting with buffering while today in my tournament, although I'll look into it right now to see if it's true. Anyways, I'll post my results in this thread seeing as your talking about the AT's.
 

KoRoBeNiKi

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this technique is one of Luigi's most important....mix AD buffered aerials with double aerials. Good post so far
 

TreK

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good job elh :]
I look forward for the true pivot, which I fail at.
 

Magus420

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Pivot walking?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfgzVCD3uS4
When you turn around into a walk you start it off by taking a big step in that direction. You can get a good boost from it depending on the character. With Luigi you get a really good slide when you combine the slide from aerial momentum due to his traction along with the turn boost.

Turn-sliding jabs (craq walked jabs ಠ_ಠ ) are especially useful with Luigi because it covers LOTS of ground into such an awesome move extremely quickly. Basically just like the Link does at the very beginning except into a jab in this case.

You can airdodge into it as well though if you FFAD you might not get as good a slide with the slightly longer landing lag. Also make sure you get full air speed backwards before starting the dodge. It only takes a split second to get up to speed as you can see Link starts to pull back shortly before landing and gets the speed, and Luigi isn't much different. I think you can get the best possible slide by using an aerial fireball at the right time in the air and having the IASA frames happen when you touch the ground since you only have 1 frame of landing lag when you do that. Probably not too noticeably different than the soft landed one though.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sacIYsrRvq0#t=0m28s
This is when you link several turns into each other. You can do it with something like holding the A button with your index finger while holding forward on the control stick to walk, and tapping the c-stick up & slightly behind just right so it inputs a tilt behind you. I think holding A prevents it from u-smashing, and the slightly back is enough to cause a turn but without triggering dashes when switching between that and full forward. You might be able to do it a little better with Luigi than in the video if you add more time between the turns. I never really used this much so I dunno.
 

Luju

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Can't wait. I always figured the Luigi's boards should have something like this.
 

elheber

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Alright! I finally updated this guide. Read the first post if you want to know about Dash Pivots and True Pivots. You guys will be experts on his ATs in no time... that is... unless I take too long to post each consecutive section.

Cheers!
 

elheber

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I know right? Here they made a new topic about Reverse Hyphen Smashes, and that's what was "Up Next" in this guide. Anyway, it's been updated. Check out the OP for good info on how Reverse Hyphen Smashes work.

Still, I'm not satisfied with it. It's more like a how-to than an analysis on how/why it works. I might rewrite it.
 

AGuyNamedRaf

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I know right? Here they made a new topic about Reverse Hyphen Smashes, and that's what was "Up Next" in this guide. Anyway, it's been updated. Check out the OP for good info on how Reverse Hyphen Smashes work.

Still, I'm not satisfied with it. It's more like a how-to than an analysis on how/why it works. I might rewrite it.
Having it as a how to is good for people who don't know how to do things (like me). Maybe you could have it as both a how to and an analysis?
 

elheber

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I understand what you mean, but explaining how an AT works also explains how it's done. That doesn't necessarily happen the other way around.

Like, if I explained how a clutch works, you'd know how to use it. But if I explained how to use a clutch, you wouldn't necessarily know how it works. All I'm saying is that I feel like I missed out on explaining it as well as I should have. No matter what, this AT Analysis will show you how to perform them. So no worries.
 

elheber

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Thank, but actually I'd rather have stills of various parts of the ATs, such as the Dash Pivot Lag, more than videos. And if I were to use videos, I'd like to make them myself just for this guide.
 

elheber

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you should use gifs
like so vvv
Would you make 2 for me? One slow-mo of Luigi's initial dash to full dash, the other of the dash pivot lag (where you hold the analog the direction you were previously running to extend the lag). If it's too much work, then tell me how to do it myself.
 

yoshq

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Would you make 2 for me? One slow-mo of Luigi's initial dash to full dash, the other of the dash pivot lag (where you hold the analog the direction you were previously running to extend the lag). If it's too much work, then tell me how to do it myself.
ok I can do it if we can talk some more about the exact part you want, otherwise you should do it if you have a capture card.
 

elheber

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Close-up camera on Luigi in training mode. Start a dash, run for a short distance, tilt the analog back (to pivot) and then tilt the analog forward again (to extend the dash pivot lag) and hold shield to show when the lag ends.

It can then be split into 2 .gifs: one of the initial dash to full dash, the other of the dash to pivot lag.
 

ALiAsVee

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I like this thread, Elheber teaches me stuff, and Magus teaches me stuff n_n V.

I tried pivot - walking / craq walking back when people talked about it, but I didn't see too much going for it.
 

elheber

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You can't shield through the dash pivot lag.

Seriously.

For real. That's why dash pivot lag sucks so much. Just hold shield. And half the width and height of what you capture is good for the dimentions yosh.
 

yoshq

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LOL thanks to yoshq for this great gif. use the links on your profile message, download the one you like, and put it on your image hosting profile, because i've run out of bandwith
 

Magma Dolphin

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Are you all aware luigi can boost smash? I's assuming so, but I could not find a post anywhere about it, even with the search thread, so I decided to ask. Sorry if this is well known and this post is just irritating. However, he can, but you have to input the commands it quite quickly.
 

Pony

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orly?
How far does it go? o_O

sorry for posting in a what, 4 month old topic? >.>
 

Grizzer

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i think i read in the opening post that you can only pivot hyphen upsmash with tap jump off, thats not true. i have it on and it works just fine :D just dash -> pivot and up + A

(i use wiichuck)
 
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