How do I catch up?

[Bill_the_Duck]

Hey guys, I don't know if this is the right place for this but... yeah I'm new if this is wrong I hope someone can move it or whatever.

So anyway, a couple months ago me and my friends started playing this when we started hanging out with a guy who's like... good. Basically, he destroys us all with Shiek and Fox. Over the last few months the new people have kind of divided into two groups, sort of good ones and bad ones. I think I'm in the sort of good group. Basically I was wondering if there is any advice available on how to get good enough to play with the very good friend who started us going... Basically I play 2 characters, Link and Falco. I first started with Link because... I don't know, why not? Now I've started getting more into it, I'm trying to pick up a good character, and Falco was the only one near the top none of my friends mained XD. I like him and he's fun, but after 2 months of playing him, I'm still waaaay better with Link. So which one should I make my main? I also have to say that I would be very happy if I could win with a lower tier character like Link... Also, I'm trying to learn advanced stuff like L-Cancels and edge guarding and wavedashing and such... so which of those techniques should I try to perfect first?

Thanks for any and all help in advance :D

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Drop Link and Learn to LCancel first

 

[Varist]

If you've got an affinity for Link, try to replace him with Marth. You'll do a lot better. And yeah, practice L-cancelling first. You just have to spam Z right before you hit the ground, don't bother wavedashing because its utility is nuanced and you're not there yet.

Play marth, focus on staying out of range and not getting hit, while hitting. Practice L-canceling to aid that mobility.

 

[Bill_the_Duck]

I see... can Link be a valid secondary?

I've experimented with Marth before, I kind of like him but really my favorite part about Link is the ranged game, not the sword.

 

[rhan]

Link is a valid character to play once you learn the basics. Without those Link is garbage.

 

[azianraven]

Play link if you feel much more comfortable with him. Nothing's more important than being to control your own character. If you got good reads, then you won't miss those punishes.

 

[JonnyW]

If you have the most fun playing Link then play him. Your at the skill level that characters really doesn't matter, when you get better and start competing at tournaments you'll have a better chance of thinking about Links match ups.

 

[mhenlo]

if you like the range on link secondary YL for the puff match up

 

[mesa23]

play whatever the hell you want

 

[Bill_the_Duck]

I see... so thanks for all the advice. What I'm seeing is that I can go either way right now so I'm going to continue with Link and still try to keep my Falco fairly sharp. Thanks

 

[ph00tbag]

Pick one character and learn everything you can about them. Study every situation you can find yourself in with them, and learn how to get out of the bad ones and capitalize on the good ones.

 

[crush]

learn how to select falco on the character select screen and short hop laser spam. Repeat x 5000 and win tronaments. Or just pick sheik. Imo.

 

[Bill_the_Duck]

LOL crush that was the idea and the first thing I did when I picked Falco was learn to short hop consistently XD

Still just not doing it for me, I think I'm going to stick with Link, just watched some videos and stuff and I like the way they play. Thanks for all the help everyone :D

 

[_Xanatos_]

Best way to catch up is play your heart out and never give up. Pick whatever character you like the most.

 

[Geenareeno]

Listen, if you're not playing for money, go with Link. It's been said before but it's like this. You aren't going to be remembered for playing a decent Marth, there are thousands of those, but no one plays Link. And you can beat people who are actually better than you because they don't know the matchup. You can also surprise them with things they probably haven't ever seen, since you're playing Link.

 

[KirbyKaze]

So anyway, a couple months ago me and my friends started playing this when we started hanging out with a guy who's like... good. Basically, he destroys us all with Shiek and Fox. Over the last few months the new people have kind of divided into two groups, sort of good ones and bad ones.

Fairly typical. Is this guy training the "sort of good ones"? I'm curious; what's the nature of the divide?

I think I'm in the sort of good group. Basically I was wondering if there is any advice available on how to get good enough to play with the very good friend who started us going... Basically I play 2 characters, Link and Falco. I first started with Link because... I don't know, why not? Now I've started getting more into it, I'm trying to pick up a good character, and Falco was the only one near the top none of my friends mained XD. I like him and he's fun, but after 2 months of playing him, I'm still waaaay better with Link. So which one should I make my main? I also have to say that I would be very happy if I could win with a lower tier character like Link... Also, I'm trying to learn advanced stuff like L-Cancels and edge guarding and wavedashing and such... so which of those techniques should I try to perfect first?

L-cancel is needed for you to be able to space fair, SH nair, uair combo, and several other goodies. So that. But you will eventually need to learn how to wavedash. And waveland. Wavelanding is boss. Dash dance is also a necessity.

However, tech skills aside, your first priority should be learning what Link's basics entail. Stuff like: how to use nair effectively, how to use Link's projectiles effectively, how to space with him effectively, what moves are good against what, etc. You don't need a fully comprehensive knowledge bank yet, but some basic knowledge of what to do against the characters you're gonna be fighting (general & situational strategy) and some idea of how tournament Link generally plays are extremely important. Your style, and your understanding of what you need to do are the things that will influence how you develop your technical mastery of the character in areas that aren't universal to every character (eventually you will incorporate all the basics, though, if you're in this for the long term at all).

I suggest watching videos of Lord HDL, Skler, and The GERM. Read a Link guide; Skler has a very good one on the Link board somewhere. After reading it, try to emulate some of the basic stuff they do and think about why they're doing it. Understanding why your character does what it does will enable you to better critique yourself & evaluate new strategies you come up with, borrow, or test more effectively.

Regarding Falco, it is my strong recommendation to play whoever you want as your first character. Your first character will seldom be the character you continue to main throughout your entire smash career. If you decide you really like Link, congrats on a good affinity or whatever. But the truth is, you'll probably grow to hate him for one reason or another as you develop him (which just happens with first characters), and attribute some of your losses to his limitations (some of which will be correct, some of which will be all you [this would happen if you picked top tier, though, probably, so don't fret]).

 

[Mean2U]

Heck, Id try to play both! I main Falco but I used Link first. His many projectiles make for an interesting approach. But you definitely need tech to use Falco.

 

[choknater]

you've come to the right place young padawan

 

[Van.]

KK who was your first character?

 

[Krynxe]

>KirbyKaze
>Kirby

 

[KirbyKaze]

Character history for me is like:

Kirby for about six months > Ice Climbers for about a year > Sheik from thereon out

 

[joejoe22802]

I hope good and bad isn't based on winning and losing.

 

[KirbyKaze]

It usually is.

 

[crush]

That means im like the charlie sheen of this game

 

[Bill_the_Duck]

Fairly typical. Is this guy training the "sort of good ones"? I'm curious; what's the nature of the divide?

Yeah he is... In particular he's showed the couple of us who use Shiek or Fox how to do some fun stuff with them. He's a really nice guy and fast becoming one of my best friends, he helps everyone all the time.

However, tech skills aside, your first priority should be learning what Link's basics entail. Stuff like: how to use nair effectively, how to use Link's projectiles effectively, how to space with him effectively, what moves are good against what, etc. You don't need a fully comprehensive knowledge bank yet, but some basic knowledge of what to do against the characters you're gonna be fighting (general & situational strategy) and some idea of how tournament Link generally plays are extremely important. Your style, and your understanding of what you need to do are the things that will influence how you develop your technical mastery of the character in areas that aren't universal to every character (eventually you will incorporate all the basics, though, if you're in this for the long term at all).

I've been watching a lot of videos on the Link forum, and read the guide there and I have to say I never realized quite how awesome the Nair was, as well as the bomb. Is that the sort of stuff you mean?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah he is... In particular he's showed the couple of us who use Shiek or Fox how to do some fun stuff with them. He's a really nice guy and fast becoming one of my best friends, he helps everyone all the time.

I figured. I must reiterate. Your situation is normal. Congrats on having a friendly teacher.

I've been watching a lot of videos on the Link forum, and read the guide there and I have to say I never realized quite how awesome the Nair was, as well as the bomb. Is that the sort of stuff you mean?

Yes. That is precisely what I mean. Knowing how your character works will give you a better idea of which techniques you need to work on, in what order, and how you're going to expand upon them (and what character-specific tech skills you're going to learn).

Honestly, I don't even view l-cancel, wavedash, etc. as really "advanced" anymore and neither should you. For all intents and purposes, what we call "advanced techniques" are just like dashing, walking, tilts, jabs, or jumping. They're moves. They open up more options that you wouldn't have otherwise. By themselves, however, they're not strategies - they're just tools to make strategies with.

 

[matchstick]

I would say stick with link as well, he is very surprising as far as his ability to CREATE situations and like greenareeno said a Great link is far more rare than a so so marth ( i know i'm one of them). if anything you should just get timing down since almost everything you do is circumstantial don't just memorize endless combos and what not since any number of things could happen. Reacting to situations is the most important thing you will learn in melee and not just spamming ariels and such.

 

[KirbyKaze]

In general, don't play a character because <person> tells you to play a character. If your drive to do something comes from an external influence, you're gonna run into problems when that driving force goes. Just go with your gut for now. Worry about complicated nonsense like "success" later.

 

[Bill_the_Duck]

I see... one last (random) thing... what do you guys think of 3-4 player FFA matches? We usually play with at least 5 or 6 people at one time and with only one TV people tend to want to play bigger matches so we can get in more often... only I think that doesn't really improve you very much, when you can be beating somebody and then another guy will randomly come in and break up your combo, or when you might not want to be in the lead or people will team you XD

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah, that's not conducive for improvement.

 

[Life]

If you're going to do >2 players, try doubles (as in 2v2), as there's a bracket for that at most tournaments.

 

[Bill_the_Duck]

Ahhh okay, I'll try that as well as maybe lowering the number of lives to 2 or 3 and doing small stage 1v1s

 

[Theftz22]

Where in NJ are you?

 

[Bill_the_Duck]

Close to NYC, Bergen County

 

[DerfMidWest]

In general, don't play a character because <person> tells you to play a character. If your drive to do something comes from an external influence, you're gonna run into problems when that driving force goes. Just go with your gut for now. Worry about complicated nonsense like "success" later.

This. Maining a low tier is what real men do. I can't tell you how often people tell me to drop pichu... its the most annoying thing ever. People just don't understand that I generally care about the character and if I want to win **** I wanna do it with Pichu, not any other character

/mini-rage

 

[Bill_the_Duck]

Lol.... I like that XD

 

[KirbyKaze]

This. Maining a low tier is what real men do.

lol no

 

[Massive]

The easiest advanced tactics to incorporate into your game as a new player are probably dash dancing, short hopping, and ledgehogging.

Dashdancing is by far easiest to implement and likely one of the most useful. You're going to dash left and then dash right before you break into a full run. It's an effective baiting maneuver to get people to throw out a risky move, you can also use it to evade get-up attacks. Follow up with a grab/attack. Pretty sweet for just running back and forth.

Short hopping needs no introduction and you can probably get it down in a few minutes with practice. It is essential to both Link and Falco's playstyles (especially falco, Fastfall dair > Lcancel > Shine is bread-and-butter). Add some elementary fastfall training if you want to be fancy.

Ledgehogging is reasonably easy and HUGELY effective. Learning to sit on the ledge and wait until the last possible second before their recovery connects and hitting 'R' will win you matches. It works at every single skill level and it's monumentally important.

Other advanced tactics like L-cancels, down-cancelled dashes, wavelands/shines/etc can wait until you're comfortable with game mechanics.

 

[Bill_the_Duck]

I already short hop and ledgehog Dashdancing.... I don't really understand exactly what it's supposed to look like, is my character just supposed to spin around and then run normally?

 

[Varist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk09c6iLLdU