How Can We Save Brawl?

[Megakoopax]

^ Ignore this guy.

Yeah, we should. Megakoopax is a bad person.

 

[Tocaraca2]

Yeah, we should. Megakoopax is a bad person.

Kappa

You should read the comments of the last 2 pages.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Making even MORE surgical rules just for Meta Knight is silly. If he really is THAT bad at this point and we're trying to revive the Brawl scene it is completely possible to simply ban him now. A lot of those old MK mains aren't likely coming back as it is.

Ice Climbers have a much easier time. Without Meta Knight there to make a ton of stages banned, we can relegalize the stages that we lost. Look at how successful WHOBO 5 was. Xyro knew what was up, made it work, and proved it could still be entertaining.

It's either that or attempting to give Brawl something that truly stands out from all other Smash games and is unique. You could go one stock but that's really lame. Item Standard Play is also a possibility if people think folks would actually enter a tournament with items on. But realistically MK ban is the best way to go.

Edit: I guess there's always the option of "soft ban" as well where essentially social pressure is used to get folks not using MK since he destroys an otherwise awesome game. It's gonna go against regular play to win philosophies Brawl has had for a long time though so you're going to have a rough time.

 

[jigglesthepuff]

If the old MK mains don't want to comeback because we ban the character, who cares? The Brawl community can make well known players and a community that stands out with other characters.

 

[Respect38]

I don't think that what I've suggested is very complicated.

First match works the same as if Meta Knight and Ice Climbers are banned completely.

After that match, you're free to switch to any character in the game.

If you played the last match as Meta Knight or Ice Climbers, you have to change your character for the next round.

Now, this is obviously a compromise, but I think it's a reasonable one: it leaves Meta Knight open for use will pushing people to main a different character and simply have a Meta Knight secondary.

who cares?

TOs. Especially TOs for major events--the kind of people we should hopefully be talking with, y'know? We need to not leak out players with whatever policy we push forth, and unfortunately, a completely anti-MK policy [even if it is a good idea long-term] certainly doesn't sound good to most TOs.

If Brawl could get to one major with an MK restricted ruleset, then I think we would be in there. The question is: how can we get that done?

 

[Respect38]

I submitted a suggestion to the Brawl subreddit that I believe [while not important as banning Meta Knight and Ice Climbers] would be something to make Brawl unique among the Smashes: having a "liberal" stage list in the fact that more stages are legal. (but in such a way to not be near as disruptive to the competitive legitimacy of the game) I'm probably going to make similar suggestions to the other communities, but I don't imagine that they'll be near as receptive to the idea, but considering that Brawl has gotten to the point where it's looking for gimmicks, I believe this might be a "gimmick" that could really help the game.

 

[Deleted member]

Heh. It appears as though we both like using the word "gimmick". Honorable trait. Honorable trait indeed.

 

[Respect38]

It's a useful word, but I'm mostly using it here sarcastically--I don't actually think that my idea is a gimmick, I think that it's a legitimate combination of liberal and conservative stage list mindsets.

EDIT: But it would still get attention as a "gimmick", which is why it may be partially more useful for the Brawl community than to the others. For one thing, it allows more customization that would be used to create stagelist that benefits some current mid tier characters and makes them more viable.

 

[Tocaraca2]

Make legal custom stages to play at tournaments.

 

[Respect38]

There's a lot of interesting stuff you can do with custom stages. There are quite a few banned stages can be fairly closely emulated by something you can make in the stage builder, but--unless there is a really good reason to--I doubt it will be done and taken seriously. There's subjectivity involved, so anything you could do would be rightly criticized, in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that for starters, we should simply hack the unbalanced stages and balance them, not only would that be more reasonable, but more comprehensible. I like the Stage Builder idea, but it's too bland and limited in function to give us a truly accurate (or even quality) stage that's worthy to be played on.

 

[Tocaraca2]

Has anybody made a mod that turns off stage hazards/transformations?
There are a ton of stages that would be legal without these.
I'm not sure what the Brawl ruleset is with stages and whether Delfino, Halberd and Castle Siege are legal, but I know that the Pokemon Stadiums would definitely be legal with transformations same with Delfino and Halberd, and removing stage hazards would make the stages still have the diversity that makes them unique but they wouldn't be as horrible to play on at a competitive level.

 

[Silvalfo]

PS2 would have a pretty high ceiling, a nice counterpick stage.

 

[Tocaraca2]

PS2 would have a pretty high ceiling, a nice counterpick stage.

Yes, it would be a great stage due to being unique in the way that it has 2 platforms.
Battlefield: 3 platforms
Final Destination: 0 platforms
Smashville: 1 platform
Pokemon Stadium: 2 platforms
I prefer Pokemon Stadium 2 just because it doesn't have a lip that easily screws up recoveries.

 

[MordhauDerk]

I don't know enough about Brawl to really comment on it's future. I will say that I have fun with it, and I know a lot of people still love Brawl. Hopefully there is a resurgence of interest, because I don't want any game's scene to die off. Even if it isn't really my favorite, I know that it means a lot to other people.
So keep at it guys! I vote that Brawl will live, because I have faith in its fan-base!

 

[LiteralGrill]

WiiBrawlin has now officially launched! It need support guys, Tweet it out, show it other fans, get the word out there. Show people Brawl fans are still out there and kicking :D

 

[Rage NF]

WiiBrawlin has now officially launched! It need support guys, Tweet it out, show it other fans, get the word out there. Show people Brawl fans are still out there and kicking :D

Sweet count me in Viva BRAAAWL XDDD

 

[Mr. D4sh]

If GimR brings it back to Xanadu, Probably we could see a small scene?

 

[Respect38]

We'd have to figure out why GimR must have decided that Brawl@Xanadu 2015 was a failure. I certainly didn't think it was; getting to see some characters show up that generally don't show up due to being countered pretty hard by the banned characters was nice to see, as well as Apostl repping the Pokémon Trainer under the 2-stock conditions.

I would have loved to have kept seeing Brawl@Xanadu, but I guess GimR didn't see whatever he was looking for in it.

 

[PsychoPuff23]

We can save brawl by Killing Melee it's Simple right ?
Ps: I'm just kidding

 

[infiniteV115]

Host tournaments. Attend tournaments. Rn I'm running Brawl as a biweekly "side event" to a S4/PM weekly (Smash on Tap) in Toronto and it's been working out pretty well (last one got 14 people). Standard ruleset, not banning MK/ICs, and it's only a "side event" because it's every other week and entry is $2 (whereas it's $5 for S4/PM)

What Brawl needs right now is numbers. I don't think we need to ban MK or ICs just yet, or give the ruleset a makeover; any of Apex 2013, 2014, or 2015 ruleset (or SSC ruleset) should be fine. I've always been pro-Unity ruleset (MK banned, 13 stages including Brinstar and RC) but making drastic changes like that now is going to make getting more entrants a lot tougher. We can worry about having an optimal ruleset for our events after we have a stable flow of events.

 

[Respect38]

Before I disagree here, I'd like to point out:

Host tournaments. Attend tournaments. Rn I'm running Brawl as a biweekly "side event" to a S4/PM weekly (Smash on Tap) in Toronto and it's been working out pretty well (last one got 14 people).

This is most important part of this message. No amount of arguing for or against banning characters will do anything if tournaments aren't happening, MK or no MK.

That said...

What Brawl needs right now is numbers. I don't think we need to ban MK or ICs just yet, or give the ruleset a makeover; any of Apex 2013, 2014, or 2015 ruleset (or SSC ruleset) should be fine. I've always been pro-Unity ruleset (MK banned, 13 stages including Brinstar and RC) but making drastic changes like that now is going to make getting more entrants a lot tougher. We can worry about having an optimal ruleset for our events after we have a stable flow of events.

I just want to know; what state are you waiting for the game to get into before doing this? Or are you just suggesting that we give the game one last push for the pro-MK side, even though the game has already died exactly like that... what has changed?

Out of curiosity, how many MKs play at your tournament? Have you considered having every other Brawl tournament be MKless to see if there'd be any turnout for it?

 

[Sensane]

If GimR brings it back to Xanadu, Probably we could see a small scene?

Doesn't have to be just Xanadu; there could be weeklies or monthlies in other places that could host Brawl. Remember, Melee had a dedicated number of fans that brought it back to tournament play, Brawl could work the same way.

 

[infiniteV115]

Before I disagree here, I'd like to point out:



This is most important part of this message. No amount of arguing for or against banning characters will do anything if tournaments aren't happening, MK or no MK.

That said...



I just want to know; what state are you waiting for the game to get into before doing this? Or are you just suggesting that we give the game one last push for the pro-MK side, even though the game has already died exactly like that... what has changed?

Out of curiosity, how many MKs play at your tournament? Have you considered having every other Brawl tournament be MKless to see if there'd be any turnout for it?

1st: ///
2nd: /
3rd: /
4th: /
5th: (), ()
7th: (/), (/)
9th: (), (/), (//), ()
13th: (),()

1st place was Blacktwins who historically dual mains ICs and Lucas. He only used MK in top 3, against my Marth (my secondary, p much a secondary battle) and against 3rd place in LFs
3rd and 4th place are dual mains, used both roughly equally.
7th and 9th MKs are pockets that didn't work out lol. Point is, the only 'real' MKs here are 3rd and 4th

I don't think Brawl died because of MK. I do think taking MK out of the meta is healthier for the meta, but doing it now would probably just reduce entry numbers cause MK mains would feel even more reluctant to join. I'm okay with leaving MK in the meta actually because I do enjoy fighting him, and he's still beatable, I just think an MK-less meta would be better. My point is, we should cross that bridge when we come to it, but first we need to focus on getting Brawl alive again. It's not necessarily a push for pro-MK, it's a push for Brawl.

 

[Respect38]

I would like to point out that the rule of "only allowed to win/play as MK for a limited number of games in a set" [probably 1 for Bo3 and 2 for Bo5] is still up in the air, although I suspect it will be rejected for the rule being too "complicated", as I often hear people say for relatively simple solutions.

 

[jigglesthepuff]

maybe we could have 2 rulesets for brawl. one "anti mk ruleset," and a "pro mk ruleset." that way a tournament could probably hold a poll about if the players want to ban mk or not.

 

[Sensane]

Why not encourage MK mains to use other characters? Some are just as easy to pick up and play as MK.

 

[Respect38]

Why not encourage MK mains to use other characters? Some are just as easy to pick up and play as MK.

I feel like limiting the times you can play as MK in a set does exactly that, while not completely nullifying their skill at MK. [which would make them less likely to play in a tournament, especially if they don't have at least a decent secondary]

 

[TheRealSkid]

I haven't played brawl much, but I agree with jigglesthepuff .

OR tourneys should be SSE speed run competitions using only low tiers.
Whatever the community is into.

 

[meticulousboy]

Why not encourage MK mains to use other characters? Some are just as easy to pick up and play as MK.

Like Mario. He is the most average character on the roster, yet I barely see any Marios in major Brawl tournaments. So yeah. Why not use a different character.

 

[Sensane]

Like Mario. He is the most average character on the roster, yet I barely see any Marios in major Brawl tournaments. So yeah. Why not use a different character.

Normally I'd be that guy who says "because Mario sucks in Brawl", but after seeing Sm4sh Mario and the fact that he has strong results in Brawl tournaments, especially for a bottom tier, then he may have some potential in the mid tiers.

 

[infiniteV115]

Mario still sucks in Brawl lol. He has basically the same tools in S4, but he's a lot better because of the game mechanics. Namely

- More hitstun = all his combos are real and inescapable. He gains much more off winning a neutral exchange/getting a grab in S4 than he does in Brawl
- No edgehogging = his crappy recovery becomes a decent one.
- No meteor cancelling = fair can kill at like 50. Fair isn't gonna kill in Brawl til like >100 cause you can just meteor cancel it lol. And since there's not as much hitstun you can't really set up into fair in Brawl, you kinda just have to go for it

 

[Sensane]

Mario still sucks in Brawl lol. He has basically the same tools in S4, but he's a lot better because of the game mechanics. Namely

- More hitstun = all his combos are real and inescapable. He gains much more off winning a neutral exchange/getting a grab in S4 than he does in Brawl
- No edgehogging = his crappy recovery becomes a decent one.
- No meteor cancelling = fair can kill at like 50. Fair isn't gonna kill in Brawl til like >100 cause you can just meteor cancel it lol. And since there's not as much hitstun you can't really set up into fair in Brawl, you kinda just have to go for it

I know that he sucks in Brawl, but I heard that he has decent results for a low tier.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Perhaps this is a way

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1098411010/smash-3-super-smash-bros-brawl-wii-u-documentary

You all probably saw this on the front page but its not a bad idea to donate, for the making of a documentary about the game's backround and scene when it was a bit more 'lively'. Maybe it can educate those who aimlessly dismiss Brawl and give others a better understanding of the situation. Plus maybe make us a tad more relevant for a moment...

 

[FRiSKruns]

Created a new Facebook group dedicated to the Revival of Brawl.

This Group is for anyone who would like to see Super Smash Bros. Brawl make a comeback with renewed activity.

Use this group for discussion of events, old videos, new videos, or even for matchmaking if you want to do Wiimmfi OR Netplay!

Let's try to get this group big and increase activity and buzz around our beloved game!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/582559721911753/

 

[ElectroLightning]

Brawl on Wii U VC anyone?

 

[11volt]

Brawl on Wii U VC anyone?

That's like 6.5GB though.

 

[CGod]

We need a SD remix for brawl to Nerf Mk and icies, buff the low tiers , mod out tripping. Brawl might might have 1% chance of being revived.

 

[Respect38]

Already happened. Balanced Brawl/Brawl+ already tried to balance out the game, but the former died and the latter morphed into Melee-ifying the game.

With the exception of tripping, I don't see any way that any modification of the game will catch on in this state. There's just no momentum for it, and where would it come from? [if there's not enough momentum for anti-tripping, then I'm doubtful that any mod beneficial to the community will actually happen]

 

[TK8305]

Yup the Brawl days are over. I know I'm not going back to it. lol...