• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Hookshot/Grapple Beam/Snake-Cancel - New technique

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
The new broken technique is here!

I already mentioned it in a thread, but I think it's important enough to warrant its own thread.

Every single character with an Aerial Z ledge-grapping technique can cancel it! How? It's simple, simply land while doing it and the beam/hook/snake will simply disappear, leaving behind zero lag (except for the four frames of landing animation).

It's just like the Float Cancel, only, you know, without the float!

Indeed, Link, Toon Link, Samus and Lucas players should all rejoice. You're no longer wide open should you accidentally do an aerial Z. Lucas doesn't gain that much from this as the others, though, since his snake doesn't have a hitbox when performed in the air. The others' attacks do, so they could throw it out for a quick shield pressure, cancel it and then go from there.

We need a collective name for it, though. Any votes?

What a lot of people have failed to realize is that this is as much as technique as, for example, Missile Canceling is.

How to Missile Cancel:
1) Float
2) Do the attack while floating.
3) Land before the attack finishes.

What happens:
All landing lag from the move itself is removed, you instead go into your Neutral Landing Lag (like after landing after doing nothing), which in Melee was 4 frames. If the attack wasn't finished before you landed, it'll still cancel (no hitbox comes out).

How to Tether (Recovery) Cancel:
1) Jump
2) Do a Z-tether recovery move
3) Land before the move finishes.

What happens:
All landing lag from the move itself is removed, you instead go into your Neutral Landing Lag (like after landing after doing nothing), which in Melee was 4 frames. If the attack wasn't finished before you landed, it'll still cancel (no hitbox comes out).

You see, Tether Recovery Cancel works exactly the same as Missile Cancel. You do something in the air, you land while doing it (before the move finishes) and all landing lag is treated as if you just landed from doing nothing.
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
CAN LUCAS CANCEL HIS SNAKE INTO AN UP SMASH??

Wow, this is great.
He can cancel his (aerial) snake into anything. It's four frames of lag. 1/15th of a second. Remember the Float Cancel (also 4 frames)? Fair into Dsmash? Yah, same principle here, only the snake doesn't actually pressure as it's got no hitbox in the air.
 

S2

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
1,503
Location
Socal 805 (aka Hyrule)
I dunno if its really important enough to name it, unless it ends up becoming some sort of abused tactic.

But if we do, tether cancel is probably most appropriate. Since that pretty much covers all the characters who can use it.
 

Vadorojo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
110
So this tactic will NOT work with Zamus, Ivysaur and Olimar because their "tether recoveries" are actual B-moves while the Hookshot/Clawshot/Snake/Grapple Beam are all "throws" and not B-moves, correct?
 

Kokichi

Skia Oura
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
8,475
Location
Japan
I don't know if that's even a technique. That's just pointing out that there's no lag afterwards. That'd be like if Luigi's Fair had no lag, then you try to make up a name for shielding then jumping up and doing Fair then landing and shielding again. That's just part of the game, there's no "technique" involved.
 

WastingPenguins

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
827
Location
Ohio
I suppose that by "new technique" he means new from Melee. Which is fair. Anyway, it sounds really cool but what's the point in doing it with Lucas, at all, if his Snake has no hitbox?
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
So this tactic will NOT work with Zamus, Ivysaur and Olimar because their "tether recoveries" are actual B-moves while the Hookshot/Clawshot/Snake/Grapple Beam are all "throws" and not B-moves, correct?
I tried it out with Olimar and Zamus earlier. Did not work.

Wait... if Lucas' snake doesn't have an aerial hitbox, why would you use this for him at all?
Fakeout. Accidental snake while trying to item catch?
 

Gamer0561

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
5
Location
Connecticut
Tether/Grapple Cancel sounds good to me. How about Tether Poke? Z-Poke? I dunno, just throwing out random names for it.
 

Chill

Red
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 21, 2001
Messages
9,010
Location
Viridian City
Is this even a technique? Doesn't the word technique imply that technical skill is required? If all you need to do is land, well it's just a simple game mechanic.
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Is this even a technique? Doesn't the word technique imply that technical skill is required? If all you need to do is land, well it's just a simple game mechanic.
Well, Float Cancel also only required you to land. Both "techniques" have the same basic principles. "Use something nobody else/very few other people have" (Float/Z-tether), "Land while doing it", "Cancel not only the lag but also the attack itself".

So I consider this a technique as much as Float Canceling was :p.
 

WastingPenguins

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
827
Location
Ohio
The "technique" is using it to shield-pressure, and it's "new" in the sense that it's new to Smash Bros., I suppose. Anyway, I found the information interesting so I don't care what he called it. :p
 

errtu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
129
everything is broken for ya, all moves are broken according to ya...
 

Japanese Monk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
370
Why are we naming everything? Its just a little extra tidbit of info. There no new tech involved, just a change of gameplay. You do nothing so therefor it should not be named like its a new tech.
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Why are we naming everything? Its just a little extra tidbit of info. There no new tech involved, just a change of gameplay. You do nothing so therefor it should not be named like its a new tech.
You make sure to fall to the ground before the attack finishes. Just like Float-cancelling.
 

kilroy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Messages
442
Location
Smashachusetts
nice find, yuna.

i'm with the "no name needed" crowd. with brawl being a new game we have a rare opportunity to re-write the rulebook, as it were. i don't think we should clutter up the metagame with an overabundance of unneeded "special names" that no one knows unless they come to this board.

it's enough to know that this move will be canceled without lag when landing. i don't see how giving it a name is beneficial.

also, float canceling had more applications than just one attack move. this is one attack.

just my .02.

*EDIT* hold on, i'm a little confused. =) are you're considering popping out the tether in order to avoid landing lag from other aerials?

like, does the tether cancel other aerial moves if i activate it while, say, doing a Fair? if so, then i think tether canceling is a name and a tech. if not, then i think it's neither and is just a quality of the tether/grappler.
 

Finch

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
1,730
Location
Tallahassee, FL
Yeah, it's really not a technique or anything that should be named, just a useful piece of information for anyone playing the Links or Samus. It's not an advanced technique, just a lame attack that has no lag.
 

WastingPenguins

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
827
Location
Ohio
Calling it a tether-cancel is as straightforward, simple and logical as you can get. That's what a good name does-- says exactly what it means. Simple, intuitive, nothing cluttery about it. Since you have to land before the animation ends to cancel it is a sort of technique.

Don't know why everyone's getting worked up about names. Just call your move exactly what it IS and leave it at that.
 

Mama

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
776
Location
Richmond California (northern)
Is this even a technique? Doesn't the word technique imply that technical skill is required? If all you need to do is land, well it's just a simple game mechanic.
Well I'd say it is. If its something that you do in order to benefit from it directly (I.e. use the gained seconds to beat someone shielding) then it could be classified as a technique. Can you do it after an aerial? If so then you probably have an old fashioned lag cancel for those few characters. I think I might pick Link back up for Brawl. Used to use him in Melee before I improved my skills.

And I think Tether cancel sounds good. Grapple cancel sounds a little clunky in my opinion.
 

The Great Leon

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
2,372
Location
Modesto
Get off Yuna's nuts. He's been doing so much research he can call it what he wants.

i took a chance and failed >_<
 

red stone

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
889
Location
Nashville, Tennessee
short hop laser has its own name and all you have to do is land, yet still, it has its own name. this should also have its own name because we need to get it out there without making entire sentences about it.
 

Xenesis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 22, 2002
Messages
299
short hop laser has its own name and all you have to do is land, yet still, it has its own name. this should also have its own name because we need to get it out there without making entire sentences about it.
It's not though.

It's just a combination of the individual actions.

Short Hop + Laser = Short Hop Laser. <_<;
 

phanna

Dread Phanna
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
2,758
Location
Florida
What exactly are you cancelling here? The lag your mind expects from playing Melee?

Christ.

Listen, it's good to understand mechanics, like how you can turn around right as you jump, but that's not an "advanted technique or cancel" - it's basic gameplay knowledge. So thanks for sharing, but this is just something for players to take in along with all the other basics.
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
What exactly are you cancelling here? The lag your mind expects from playing Melee?

Christ.

Listen, it's good to understand mechanics, like how you can turn around right as you jump, but that's not an "advanted technique or cancel" - it's basic gameplay knowledge. So thanks for sharing, but this is just something for players to take in along with all the other basics.
It works exactly the same as Float Canceling in Melee. It cancels the lag of the move you just made. Sound familiar? Yes, it's the same a Float Canceling.

In fact, it's the exact same thing as Float Canceling.

How to Float-cancel:
1) Float
2) Do an attack while floating
3) Land before the attack finishes.

What happens:
All landing lag from the aerial itself is removed, you instead go into your Neutral Landing Lag (like after landing after doing nothing), which in Melee was 4 frames.

How to Tether (Recovery) Cancel:
1) Jump
2) Do a Z-tether recovery move
3) Land before the move finishes.

What happens:
All landing lag from the tether recovery move is removed, you instead go into your Neutral Landing Lag (like after landing after doing nothing), which in Melee was 4 frames.

You see, Tether Recovery Cancel works exactly the same as Float Cancel in Melee. You do something in the air, you land while doing it (before the move finishes) and all landing lag is treated as if you just landed from doing nothing.

Thus, it needs a name, just like Float Cancel. Tether Recovery Cancel or Tether Cancel has been voted forth, but this could be a bit misleading as Zamus and Olimar can't do it. So I'd prefer for it to be called Z Tether Recovery Cancel or Z Tether Cancel (ZTRC/ZTC).
 
Top Bottom