Q&A Hint Block: Yoshi Question and Answer Thread

[Boomuki]

Quick question. Does Yoshi's shield come out on frame 1 like every other shield in the game or is it slower? A friend of mine is complaining about this.

 

[Untamed]

I think I've already asked this a long time ago (but I forgot), before I dropped yoshi. Now that I've decided to stay with him, what's a good secondary to use for the bad MU's? Fox?

 

[Delta-cod]

Quick question. Does Yoshi's shield come out on frame 1 like every other shield in the game or is it slower? A friend of mine is complaining about this.

I believe it looks slower, but it does come out on frame 1.

I think I've already asked this a long time ago (but I forgot), before I dropped yoshi. Now that I've decided to stay with him, what's a good secondary to use for the bad MU's? Fox?

Sheik, Diddy, a top tier? Yoshi struggles with characters that crush him in neutral/are too safe to kill reliably, so characters with strong neutrals/kill setups work.

The problem with suggesting a secondary for Yoshi is that it usually comes down to telling you "pick a top tier", and then you'll end up just wanting to use the top tier more often because it's got a better match up against most characters than Yoshi anyways.

You could also consider using DK. His new cargo throw shenanigans are ridiculous. Look up DKWill's vids about it if you're curious. Massive damage from grabs, plus kill setups as early as like, 70%.

 

[Untamed]

I believe it looks slower, but it does come out on frame 1.



Sheik, Diddy, a top tier? Yoshi struggles with characters that crush him in neutral/are too safe to kill reliably, so characters with strong neutrals/kill setups work.

The problem with suggesting a secondary for Yoshi is that it usually comes down to telling you "pick a top tier", and then you'll end up just wanting to use the top tier more often because it's got a better match up against most characters than Yoshi anyways.

You could also consider using DK. His new cargo throw shenanigans are ridiculous. Look up DKWill's vids about it if you're curious. Massive damage from grabs, plus kill setups as early as like, 70%.

Thanks for the advice . I actually was watching Will's stream when he discovered all that craziness. Maybe I'll give DK a go.

 

[Untamed]

I do my best when I use Yoshi, and thus, have the most fun playing with him. However, there is a problem. My main source of training is, unfortunately online. Whether that be FG or anther's ladder. As we know, Yoshi while still good offline, is even stronger ONLINE, to the point where I feel like I'm winning because of it. I'm trying to get better at smash, seeing that his is my first "try to get better, instead of being a filthy casual" smash game. However, I feel like while I'll still get better over time, I'm slowing myself down with yoshi, as long as I play online. So my question is, should I use a character like mario or pit to practice, and hopefully polish up fundamentals, before picking yoshi back up, or should I just stick with yoshi regardless?

 

[Delta-cod]

If you are comfortable controlling Yoshi's movement (air speed, b-reverses, DJ stuff, egg tosses, etc), then I say all you really need to focus on for a good while are fundamentals. Meaning that, if you think you're just cheesing people online with Yoshi, you should definitely switch to a character you can't cheese with and have to work on fundamentals with.

The cool thing about Smash is that it's very based on fundamentals. This is why top players can play everyone kinda well. So a lot of your development as a player through fundamentals will easily transfer to Yoshi. Once you have strong fundamentals you can worry more explicitly about Yoshi-specific interactions, match ups, and tech.

 

[ReturningFall]

I personally follow the theory that people who can play a variety of characters are better at the game overall.

Why? Because you better understand the motivations of players who pick to play one character. Hence you get a better feel for play style strengths and weaknesses and know what you may/may not be able to exploit.

Fundamentals are essentially strong instantaneous decision making. The more you understand the universe of smash, the more you can make the proper calls at the proper times. The best players know more about the game than anyone else and can execute the technical precision to pull off what they want.

 

[Nikes]

I personally follow the theory that people who can play a variety of characters are better at the game overall.

Why? Because you better understand the motivations of players who pick to play one character. Hence you get a better feel for play style strengths and weaknesses and know what you may/may not be able to exploit.

Fundamentals are essentially strong instantaneous decision making. The more you understand the universe of smash, the more you can make the proper calls at the proper times. The best players know more about the game than anyone else and can execute the technical precision to pull off what they want.

I fully agree with all of this, our scene's best player does this and seems to have gained an edge over everyone else in doing so. Character knowledge and knowing your oponnents character inside out goes a really long way.

 

[Delta-cod]

It's a very useful mindset to have, and it really helps when evaluating match ups and coming up with game plans.

"Oh, he's playing Pikachu. When I play Pikachu, I mainly want to do XYZ in neutral. How does Yoshi beat that plan?"

It seems like a really simple question to pose and answer, and being able to do that will give you an edge in match ups that you might not have even played before. You can answer these questions without having the experience of playing the character if you're knowledgeable enough, but the added experience allows you to be aware of the more nuanced factors of the plan you need to counter, allowing you to come up with a better plan yourself.

It's for this reason that I think there's more value to messing around with random characters against casuals or online, or in single player modes, etc. I actually think it's quite important to be able to beat single player modes on the hardest difficulties with no continues with every character (maybe less so in this game due to the formats), simply because it really opens your eyes to possible flaws that each character has.

 

[Codaption]

Hmmmm....that's a good plan, I'll try it out whenever I get a chance.

 

[muddykips]

hey, i had a question about b reverses.

whenever i slow down mid-air, and try to do a b reverse, it comes out as a turnaround instead (or at the very least, i'm pretty sure it's that particular scenario that makes me unable to do a b reverse). i can consistently use b reverses, so the consistency with which i'm unable to do it when slowing down midair makes me wonder what's going on.

does this happen with anyone else? am i just doing something wrong?

 

[Delta-cod]

hey, i had a question about b reverses.

whenever i slow down mid-air, and try to do a b reverse, it comes out as a turnaround instead (or at the very least, i'm pretty sure it's that particular scenario that makes me unable to do a b reverse). i can consistently use b reverses, so the consistency with which i'm unable to do it when slowing down midair makes me wonder what's going on.

does this happen with anyone else? am i just doing something wrong?

Could you kind of explain what you're trying to do a little more in depth? Are you trying to slow your momentum and THEN b reverse?

If so I can't think of what would be causing the issue. Perhaps you're not returning the stick fully to neutral when trying to do the reverse after the slow down? The input for slowing down would certainly lend itself towards a turnaround...

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

B and then left = B reverse
Left and then B = Turn around B

If you're slowing down by hitting the opposite directon then you'll turn around B before you ca attempt to B reverse.

 

[Delta-cod]

B and then left = B reverse
Left and then B = Turn around B

If you're slowing down by hitting the opposite directon then you'll turn around B before you ca attempt to B reverse.

Does doing the input for a turnaround block you from doing a B reverse?

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Does doing the input for a turnaround block you from doing a B reverse?

If you did a turn around B you can't B reverse in the same direction because you're facing that direction now.

 

[ReturningFall]

hey, i had a question about b reverses.

whenever i slow down mid-air, and try to do a b reverse, it comes out as a turnaround instead (or at the very least, i'm pretty sure it's that particular scenario that makes me unable to do a b reverse). i can consistently use b reverses, so the consistency with which i'm unable to do it when slowing down midair makes me wonder what's going on.

does this happen with anyone else? am i just doing something wrong?

Try puling back, going to neutral for a sec and then throwing it. I don't know what the window is for turnaround, but I imagine it's similar to the window for grounded dash->neutral B..

 

[JBones]

Anyone know where I can find a list of characters and percents that you can single jab -> usmash or fsmash?

 

[Sinister Slush]

We sadly do not have a full list like that.

 

[Nikes]

Might warrant a list actually, I might try and make it and put it into my guide that I haven't updated in ages.
Most mid/lightweight characters can be jab > usmashed from around 80% I think, probably earlier on some. I haven't done too much testing on heavy characters but I should imagine it would work. Don't think it works on fast fallers like Fox though after trying it several times at the last tournament and in friendlies.
Need to play around with the Fsmash a lot more, it holds a lot of promise and hope for us.

 

[Eureka]

Might warrant a list actually, I might try and make it and put it into my guide that I haven't updated in ages.
Most mid/lightweight characters can be jab > usmashed from around 80% I think, probably earlier on some. I haven't done too much testing on heavy characters but I should imagine it would work. Don't think it works on fast fallers like Fox though after trying it several times at the last tournament and in friendlies.
Need to play around with the Fsmash a lot more, it holds a lot of promise and hope for us.

Jab down smash works quite well on fast fallers no? Considering the lower trajectory d smash would send them because of their fast fall speed it could set up for some good edgegaurds.

 

[ReturningFall]

Stupid question on jab->Usmash.

Does the jab need to be crouch cancelled or the Usmash jump cancelled?

 

[JBones]

How does everyone handle down throw -> uair combos? I usually bait out an airdodge. Are you able to get a true combo if you DJ fast enough?

 

[Codaption]

So, shieldstun got increased. Is it still possible to spotdodge to avoid the landing hit on Dair?

 

[Sinister Slush]

No, you're unable to do any action cause you're in shield stun.

 

[Nikes]

Stupid question on jab->Usmash.

Does the jab need to be crouch cancelled or the Usmash jump cancelled?

Generally you shouldn't need to but sometimes I jump cancel the Usmash to get that extra distance on the slide, it seems to work well.

How does everyone handle down throw -> uair combos? I usually bait out an airdodge. Are you able to get a true combo if you DJ fast enough?

Depends on their %, at higher %'s it's not as reliable unfortunately especially because of DI, but yeah baiting the airdodge is probably the right way to go about it. I'm pretty sure it's a true combo if you DJ fast at low %'s, even if it isn't it's still very reliable.

Sometimes I can condition them into air dodging the Dthrow followup then Usmashing or throwing an egg directly above me if they don't jump away, but most people do just jump away instead.

 

[Masonomace]

Sup Yoshi boards.

Q: What are your opinions on Yoshi's Up B 2 called High Jump? The endlag was reduced by 4 frames, but before that I liked using the move to assure myself of always coming back to the stage. The biggest setback is that we lose Egg Throw which is a good projectile, but it feels especially good coming back from a footstool or a meteor smash using a move that automatically snaps to the ledge similarly to Sonic using Spring Jump.

 

[muddykips]

the only time i see that custom being useful is against a character that can gimp yoshi well, and that can swat away eggs. marth or shulk, maybe?

except high jump doesn't go that high in the first place, and doesn't have any armor, so it's way easier to punish than regular upb. you might have another chance or two to get back to the ledge, but it still makes it harder to get there safely at all.

also, you should be recovering high anyways. even if you have to recover sideways, egg should be covering your landing.

 

[Nikes]

I'm personally a fan of it but unfortunately it is ultimately a nerf to him, since eggs are really useful and setup for stuff. Very glad they reduced some of it's endlag frames at least however, that was a pleasant surprise.
If customs were legal in my scene I'd use it alongside lick and go for a lot of deep edgeguards and not have to rely on footstools to recover, the extra boost in height would benefit this playstyle heaps especially if the playstyle doesn't really use eggs a whole lot to begin with. Gonna have to play around with it in friendlies a lot to test it's viability and see if the tradeoff is manageable, which I hope it is.

 

[Masonomace]

the only time i see that custom being useful is against a character that can gimp yoshi well, and that can swat away eggs. marth or shulk, maybe?

except high jump doesn't go that high in the first place, and doesn't have any armor, so it's way easier to punish than regular upb. you might have another chance or two to get back to the ledge, but it still makes it harder to get there safely at all.

also, you should be recovering high anyways. even if you have to recover sideways, egg should be covering your landing.

I use a custom stage to test vertical height that characters travel. It has a platform floor to drop through & stacks up with platforms 1 grid unit high, 29 platforms high in total. Egg Throw doesn't vertically ascend grounded, but in the air, the first used Egg Throw goes 5 platforms high. High Jump from the ground goes 7 platforms high, & when used in the air, it goes 9 platforms high. Yoshi's awesome doublejump goes 10 platforms high, so honestly I'd argue that an airborne High Jump is basically a laggy non-tolerant doublejump. The second used High Jump still goes high too. Even the third & fourth High Jump are useful, but it's the fifth High Jump & High Jumps after the fifth jump that don't gain any vertical height.

Shulk being my Primary definitely convinces me that I'd use High Jump against the Shulk custom MU. I wanna say that it's actually safe if you use it to recover from straight below the ledge like Sonic King Dedede & Mega Man auto-snapping to the ledge safely. Still, it's a risk.

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

I personally ADORE Up 2 for MUs where I sincerely believe that Yoshi has it so good, that he could go withOUT either Up 1 or Up 3's Eggs and still dominate the match with a minimum rating of +0.5 in favor of Yoshi (in other words, "styling" on folks, and the MUs I'm thinking of where I would believe that to be the case would be folks like Mewtwo, Zelda, and even Bowser Jr), for it grants me a cool on-stage mobility option that helps me escape some situations that our normally trustworthy juggle-breaking 3 frame NAir would lose to, especially if I've already spent all my jumps. With Tap Jump OFF, it can be a way to conserve our 2nd jump while traveling upwards, which makes him feel more mobile than he already is. We gain vertical height for the 1st 3 times Up 2 is used, IF we normally jump even just once OR we're knocked off-stage before using Up 2. If, after the previously stated IF conditions are met, we try to go for the 4th Up 2 use in a row, it won't give you any more upwards lift.

If used OoS, it can be a surprisingly quick way to escape certain situations where we want to save our 2nd jump, but we want more vertical height than what our 1st jump offers us, such as reaching for platforms like DL64's with Up 2 without jumping beforehand, where Up 2 can autocancel onto, allowing you to do whatever you want once you land (thanks reduced endlag~).

If you use Up 2 on the ground, you can mash out NAir or UAir or even FAir afterwards (you technically CAN use BAir or DAir, but you probably won't get the whole attacks), which against opponents that aren't in the know, it can be a frame trap against those who think that me being in the middle of Up 2 is a moment to go in.

Sure, without Up 1 or Up 3's Eggs, we're forced to approach, but we can use our other Custom Specials to help us out with that. I often pair it with Side 3, Light Egg Roll, so I can rescue myself from whenever I hurl myself off the stage after using Side 3.

Pairing Up 2 with Neutral 2 is a great idea, for Neutral 2 boosts our horizontal movement abilities as well as giving us a ranged KO move, even in the air. We may lose a command grab, but we gain an auto-cancellable-out-of-short-hop mixup attack that can boost our overall speed even further, much like Bowser's Side 3, Dash Slash.

Now I want to run 232x more often (I'd personally rep 2323, because Down 3's KO power is <3). :D

In a casual setting (Tourney Mode's Customs On rooms (including the Regular Tourney rooms that allow for Customs), to be specific), I like to start off matches by immediately Up 2-ing, so as to let my opponents know that "Hey, I don't have any Eggs to throw at you, so not only will I NOT have any intentions of 'For Glory Link ROB'-ing you with Eggs, but I'll 'put on a show' by actively rushing you down like as if I'm Captain Falcon. :D" Considering the lack of reports & blocks I seem to be receiving for it, it must be working.

 

[Remioli]

Had anyone found any aerials that are safe on shield with the updated shield stun that weren't before? I feel like you can still shield grab nair.

 

[BenGFox]

Hi guys,

I have a question regarding Yoshi's shield. IIRC shield's in general drop after 10 frames if they aren't hit, however I was playing a friend a while back and looked like his shield dropped slowly. I was under the influence so my perception was probably distorted somewhat. Also this was in v1.1.0 if that changes anything (:

 

[Codaption]

Shields actually take seven frames to drop, the ten-frame window is exclusive to Yoshi.

As for that.... I'd chalk it up to the fine wine, because glitch or no I don't think anything like that's ever existed in a smash game.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Everyone's shield takes 7 frames to drop including Yoshi's.

 

[Improperly]

Yo, first post.

I just found the cause of ~20% of my SDs: Yoshi doesn't recover his "jumps" from egg toss, if he just grabs the ledge.
My question is: Why isn't this information plastered everywhere on guides + forums?

 

[Nikes]

Yeah he only gets it back when he touches ground with his feet, I'm pretty sure it's in my guide but I'll have to go double check. It's something you learn pretty fast upon picking up Yoshi however.

 

[Improperly]

My b. I have mained Yoshi since release, and have just thought Yoshi on ledge was "unstable" .
Yes, I'm a bit slow :>

 

[Nikes]

All good haha, this game wasn't kind to his ledge game, it's a dangerous place for him

 

[Delta-cod]

Since his recovery also relies heavily on DJ, I have taken to Down B-ing to touch the ground even when I know I'll get punished, just to recover DJ + Egg Toss Hops, if I've noticed myself get caught without a jump. The extra flexibility recovering is worth the slight punishment you'll take (compared to getting gimped).

 

[Codaption]

Wouldn't you have enough time to sweetpot ledge with Yoshi Bomb in that situation, too? Gives your double jump back straight-off, and bypasses a lot of the risk. You can still get your eggs back if you do a normal, roll, or attack getup as well.