Social Hideout of the Phantom Thieves - Joker Social

[EarlTamm]

I don't want a walking gimmick for no reason. Joker doesn't need an SP mechanic. That's like the most common thing in Joker movesets and I don't understand it. Out of all RPG characters in smash, why in the hell would Joker be the one to have that? You know what his gimmick should be if he has one? ****ing Personas. You know, the main way he fights? The thing the series is named after? Why not use that instead of ****ing SP?

SP could just be a way of balancing out the Persona if they are very strong. If the can pull off some pretty wide or powerful attacks with your Personas, naturally you would want to balance it in a way to stop people from spamming. That's why the break mechanic is a thing in the Arena games, right?

 

[osby]

I don't want a walking gimmick for no reason. Joker doesn't need an SP mechanic. That's like the most common thing in Joker movesets and I don't understand it. Out of all RPG characters in smash, why in the hell would Joker be the one to have that? You know what his gimmick should be if he has one? ****ing Personas. You know, the main way he fights? The thing the series is named after? Why not use that instead of ****ing SP?

Because people who don't know the first thing about Persona need to make moveset videos for those sweet relevancy.

 

[Sigran101]

Because people who don't know the first thing about Persona need to make moveset videos for those sweet relevancy.

Yeah. GameXplain's moveset even had the Morgana telling Joker to go to sleep meme as one of the specials. And the rest of the moves were knife attacks and kicks except for Nuetral and side B. People should really just do research before they make a moveset.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I bet there's at least one super-lazy theorist that gives him a swordsman-type moveset, just because he wields a blade--

Yeah. GameXplain's moveset even had the Morgana telling Joker to go to sleep meme as one of the specials. And the rest of them over were knife attacks and kicks except for Nuetral and side B. People should really just do research before they make a moveset.

Well, case in point.

Question, do you think Persona moves would be stronger than your average attacks? I imagine if you are going to put in SP or break mechanics for your Persona, it would need to be balanced out with Persona's being pretty strong otherwise.

Also, here is some Persona 5 X Xenoblade 2 art I found.

Panther+Pyra pic.twitter.com/NsMu7Ltni1

— Sean @ Anime Expo AA I-58 (@athenawyrm) March 17, 2019

I never knew I wanted this.

 

[Sigran101]

SP could just be a way of balancing out the Persona if they are very strong. If the can pull off some pretty wide or powerful attacks with your Personas, naturally you would want to balance it in a way to stop people from spamming. That's why the break mechanic is a thing in the Arena games, right?

There's plenty of ways to balance it that don't require an intrusive gimmick.

 

[osby]

There's plenty of ways to balance it that don't require an intrusive gimmick.

Tbh, I can't see Joker not being gimmicky with his Personas and all, but SP is a horrible way of doing it.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well whatever moveset it is that can work with Joker, we'll find out the official one a few weeks from now, so at least we can rest easy after that.

The more important question is, what's next after that? Becoming the best Joker users out there? Continuing to raise awareness for the Persona series (although I imagine HG101's planned MegaTen book will help with that, should it come out safely)?

 

[Sigran101]

Tbh, I can't see Joker not being gimmicky with his Personas and all, but SP is a horrible way of doing it.

I agree about the SP, but I could see him not being gimmicky. I could see, like Yo****sune coming out for smash attacks, Arsene coming out for specials, Jack Frost for arials or something. With Personas basically functioning like glorified weapons. But he will probably end up with some kind of gimmick. I just hope he doesn't end up being the Meta Knight/Bayonetta of this game.

 

[Roguewolf]

Are you saying we should "let them know that we out there?"....sorry bad joke. I guess I'm just a joker....sorry

 

[EarlTamm]

Every new Smash character usually comes with something that could be called a gimmick. Heck, I would argue Personas on there own are enough to be classified as such. It's just a question of how they work with Joker as a mechanic.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I agree about the SP, but I could see him not being gimmicky. I could see, like Yo****sune coming out for smash attacks, Arsene coming out for specials, Jack Frost for arials or something. With Personas basically functioning like glorified weapons. But he will probably end up with some kind of gimmick. I just hope he doesn't end up being the Meta Knight/Bayonetta of this game.

Yeah, that's the thing here. Him being accidentally "pay to win" would sour people on the idea of buying him outside of the pass, unless the post-base game staff are able to play their cards right in regards to balance since there's no system life deadline like with the 3DS. Or maybe he's the type that's actually tricky to master playing effectively with.

 

[C-G]

Every new Smash character usually comes with something that could be called a gimmick. Heck, I would argue Personas on there own are enough to be classified as such. It's just a question of how they work with Joker as a mechanic.

I dunno, Incineroar, Ridley, and Belmont were all pretty straightforward, Incineroar's taunting aside.

 

[NintenZ]

So I’ve decided to share this here with you guys, I’ve made a thread for Crow mainly in support of him being an Echo Fighter of Joker, so if you’d like to take a look be my guest:
https://smashboards.com/threads/the-famed-junior-dectective-crow-goro-akechi-for-smash.480506/

 

[EarlTamm]

I dunno, Incineroar, Ridley, and Belmont were all pretty straightforward, Incineroar's taunting aside.

One of the first things Sakurai noted about the Belmots were there unique lengthy whip attacks. That and the projectile move set they brought with them certainly filled a niche. I would argue that Ridley and Incineroars down B's are gimmicky, as well as Incineroar having stronger throws to a lesser extent.

 

[Sigran101]

One of the first things Sakurai noted about the Belmots were there unique lengthy whip attacks. That and the projectile move set they brought with them certainly filled a niche. I would argue that Ridley and Incineroars down B's are gimmicky, as well as Incineroar having stronger throws to a lesser extent.

But you can play them normally. Unlike characters like Robin and Rosalina. They're just unique, not gimmicky.

 

[EarlTamm]

But you can play them normally. Unlike characters like Robin and Rosalina. They're just unique, not gimmicky.

A gimmick is a gimmick, those two just have gimmicks that require a higher skill level.

 

[Teeb147]

Did I miss anything persona-related? I think i havent checked here for a few days.

 

[Sigran101]

A gimmick is a gimmick, those two just have gimmicks that require a higher skill level.

Having long range isn't a gimmick. Having a puppet that you have to control sperately from your character is. There's a fine line.

 

[EarlTamm]

Did I miss anything persona-related? I think i havent checked here for a few days.

There was an ova synopsis released not that long ago.

Having long range isn't a gimmick. Having a puppet that you have to control sperately from your character is. There's a fine line.

It is when it's in a place not expected(Melee attacks) and is literally called out as unique to the fighter and unusual to the rest of the cast by the creator himself.

 

[Robertman2]

Yup that's the trope. The trope that glorifies said bad guy just cause they're hot, that leads to terrible ships with characters who cannot stand them in canon and/or warps the narrative around them due to their fanbases.



I've been a fan since P3 and even if it is just on a casual level: I still do not see what the impatience is for. Doesn't P5 have their dancing game and eventually the 3DS game coming up? Not to mention there is likely way more stuff coming this year.

If Persona fans waited years for 5, surely they csn wait for one more month for Joker in Smash without expecting some conspirscy theory or some BS.

are you the guy who was whining about the same thing on gamefaqs

 

[Teeb147]

There was an ova synopsis released not that long ago.

Ok. i would think it follows where the story was, but anyway.

I skimmed and saw a few posts about the ponytail thing. And, ive seen a few people wonder about if it could be for arsene, but following the name of the file, it's for Joker's model, not Arsene's. You don't keep two models together for development, that'd be weirdly complicated and unclean for a company to do that.

 

[EarlTamm]

Ok. i would think it follows where the story was, but anyway.

I skimmed and saw a few posts about the ponytail thing. And, ive seen a few people wonder about if it could be for arsene, but following the name of the file, it's for Joker's model, not Arsene's. You don't keep two models together for development, that'd be weirdly complicated and unclean for a company to do that.

Plus there is the whole "Jane" name attached to it.

 

[Roguewolf]

I think a gimmick is something that the charachter is forced to completely rely upon and there moveset revolves around that one thing like king k's belly armor or location aura while the Belmonts just have something that is unique in their moveset. Ya know?

 

[Teeb147]

Plus there is the whole "Jane" name attached to it.

Sure, it'd be weird to name arsene jane. But yeah it's still part of joker's model (well 1 costume version, at least)

I think a gimmick is something that the charachter is forced to completely rely upon and there moveset revolves around that one thing like king k's belly armor or location aura while the Belmonts just have something that is unique in their moveset. Ya know?

Which character even has a gimmick? I guess bayo had her combo game.
Personally I think the personas will just come out for some moves, and the moves themselve wont be gimmicky. but who knows.

It does look like arsene might come out when shielding too, looking at the shield size.

 

[EarlTamm]

I think a gimmick is something that the charachter is forced to completely rely upon and there moveset revolves around that one thing like king k's belly armor or location aura while the Belmonts just have something that is unique in their moveset. Ya know?

Isn't a gimmick naturally moveset unique? Kinda goes hand in hand.

 

[C-G]

Which character even has a gimmick?

ICs, Lucario, Rosa/Luma, Robin, Shulk, Cloud, and Inkling to name a few.

Isn't a gimmick naturally moveset unique? Kinda goes hand in hand.

Nah, a gimmick is some X Factor that defines the character and their moveset. Multiple Characters, stances, super modes, etc.

 

[Teeb147]

ICs, Lucario, Rosa/Luma, Robin, Shulk, Cloud, and Inkling to name a few

Isn't a gimmick naturally moveset unique? Kinda goes hand in hand.

Ok, that gives me a better sense for it, maybe i have a higher standard for what i consider 'gimmicky'.
In a way, Lucario just had a stronger 'rage' than others, but now that rage isn't as good I could call it gimmicky.
I didnt think of the 'ink', but that's true, it's at least unique to have to recharge.

 

[EarlTamm]

I have to say, I don't think having a gimmick is a bad thing. In the case of Smash, it has often led to sone pretty unique and intresting characters.

Nah, a gimmick is some X Factor that defines the character and their moveset. Multiple Characters, stances, super modes, etc.

Funny, because Sakurai's design process for characters is literally summing up their entire moveset concept in 3 to 5 words. At least, that was the case for Brawl.

 

[osby]

I have to say, I don't think having a gimmick is a bad thing. In the case of Smash, it has often led to sone pretty unique and intresting characters.

Agreed. If I want a character that does nothing but magic or jumps, I'll just play as Robin or Sheik, I want Joker to have stuff only he can do.

 

[C-G]

There's a difference between a gimmick and a gimmicky character. It can be confusing, but the easiest way to tell is how dependent the character is on their unique X-Factor. KKR's belly armor is gimmicky, but it doesn't really make him a gimmick character because his entire strategy isn't built around his belly armor, it's just a piece. Meanwhile, characters like Robin and ICs HAVE to pay attention to when their gear will run out or where Nana is.

 

[EarlTamm]

There's a difference between a gimmick and a gimmicky character. It can be confusing, but the easiest way to tell is how dependent the character is on their unique X-Factor. KKR's belly armor is gimmicky, but it doesn't really make him a gimmick character because his entire strategy isn't built around his belly armor, it's just a piece. Meanwhile, characters like Robin and ICs HAVE to pay attention to when their gear will run out or where Nana is.

So wouldn't that mean the Belmonts have a gimmicky playstyle? After all, the Belmont playstyle is very specific in where it is most optimal.

 

[osby]

There's a difference between a gimmick and a gimmicky character. It can be confusing, but the easiest way to tell is how dependent the character is on their unique X-Factor. KKR's belly armor is gimmicky, but it doesn't really make him a gimmick character because his entire strategy isn't built around his belly armor, it's just a piece. Meanwhile, characters like Robin and ICs HAVE to pay attention to when their gear will run out or where Nana is.

It feels like you are just making up terms.

Also, this isn't an inherently bad thing, it just means you have to pay more attention when playing said fighter.

 

[Teeb147]

There's a difference between a gimmick and a gimmicky character. It can be confusing, but the easiest way to tell is how dependent the character is on their unique X-Factor. KKR's belly armor is gimmicky, but it doesn't really make him a gimmick character because his entire strategy isn't built around his belly armor, it's just a piece. Meanwhile, characters like Robin and ICs HAVE to pay attention to when their gear will run out or where Nana is.

I would say Olimar is the only heavyly gimmicky character in that sense. If you dont have pikmin, you can hardly do anything.
I use Robin and I consider it more just lighter item management. (ie not reliant on gimmick)

 

[Roguewolf]

And lucario he needs aura to be any good. Oh and the ice climbers if you have nana die on you then your next kid.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

To me, a gimmick is usually some sort of "ammo" you gotta keep track of, like the Inklings' ink levels.

Then there's more specialized movesets, like Bayo's straight-up being taken from her own games, Sonic's being built around going everywhere super-fast, and such. and 's movesets are from their games as well, with the added bonus of actual combo/supermove inputs from said games.

Even with the brief consideration for Heihachi, you had Sakurai having trouble figuring out how to translate Tekken mechanics into Smash Bros, which was going to be a gimmick unto itself.

 

[Teeb147]

And lucario he needs aura to be any good. Oh and the ice climbers if you have nana die on you then your next kid.

In smash 4 yeah, but Lucario is good at base now, in ultimate. It's much more like a power up.
As for ICs, there's a little more reliance for recovery, but you can still side-b and stuff, but i think we can settle on that it's a gimmicky character anyway.

Most of them is a strength that's tied to a weakness. In other words, the strength of having 2 characters throwing out hitboxes comes at the price of having less if nana is gone. Some people like that kind of balance in a character. Even pichu is cool that way now, being strong and quick but very light and self-damaging as the weakness.

 

[EarlTamm]

In smash 4 yeah, but Lucario is good at base now, in ultimate. It's much more like a power up.
As for ICs, there's a little more reliance for recovery, but you can still side-b and stuff, but i think we can settle on that it's a gimmicky character anyway.

Most of them is a strength that's tied to a weakness. In other words, the strength of having 2 characters throwing out hitboxes comes at the price of having less if nana is gone. Some people like that kind of balance in a character. Even pichu is cool that way now, being strong and quick but very light and self-damaging as the weakness.

Same could be applied to K.Rools armor. It may protect you on a ton of attacks, but if it breaks from too much damage you are pretty much dead. Rosalina is not nearly as dangerous without her Luma and Shulk's arts give both buffs and debuffs to him. It's a rather common trait in gimmicks.

 

[Roguewolf]

I agree with you teeb I've seen the light kiddos. I just kinda hope jokers not a gimmicky charachter cause that's not my type of charachter and I do want to play him. Even if he won't be my main (check name for answer on that query ill give you a hint I don't main rogue) although he probably will have a gimmick or two which is fine

 

[EarlTamm]

I just have to note something, there has never been a third party character that did not have some sort of gimmick. Sonic has his speed, Snake has his variety of bombs(The sticky alone gets him on here), Mega Man has his variety of projectiles(Including his charge shot for F smash), Pac Man has his fruits and such, Ryu and Ken have the imputs and opponent facing, Cloud has limit, Bayo is Bayo and the Belmonts have been discussed more than enough.

 

[Teeb147]

I agree with you teeb I've seen the light kiddos. I just kinda hope jokers not a gimmicky charachter cause that's not my type of charachter and I do want to play him. Even if he won't be my main (check name for answer on that query ill give you a hint I don't main rogue) although he probably will have a gimmick or two which is fine

I tend to prefer balanced characters too. But so long as it's not a detrimental gimmick/weakness then I can live with it.
I can't play Ryu/Ken because I like to move too much around and it makes me accidentally input moves all the time even if i dont want to. It's cool because people who are used to street fighter may like it a lot, but it's just not my jam, by a big margin. Can still be fun casually.

I just have to note something, there has never been a third party character that did not have some sort of gimmick. Sonic has his speed, Snake has his variety of bombs(The sticky alone gets him on here), Mega Man has his variety of projectiles(Including his charge attack for F smash), Pac Man has his fruits and such, Ryu and Ken have the imputs and opponent facing, Cloud has limit, Bayo is Bayo and the Belmonts have been discussed more than enough.

I still dont think there'll be a gimmick that'll get in our way of liking joker, but yeah of course there being personas willl be special somehow.
Shouldnt be too long before we find out the truth :O