Heroes Draw Near. Command? (Hero Social Thread)

[Firox]

I think any subsequent DLC is banned because it is too close to the tournament, but IDK. The reasoning for banning Hero is certainly different from the reasoning for banning subsequent DLC though, so I wouldn't read into that part too much.

I think it's reasonable to ban DLC that's too close to the tournament for a couple of reasons. Firstly, almost all DLC comes with a balance patch of some sort. If you've been practicing like crazy with a specific balance, it would be pretty screwed up to flip the chess board on everyone right before a tournament. Your main could theoretically get nerfed into the ground right after you put in all that work. That wouldn't be fair.

Secondly, nobody would have much experience with the new DLC so it would skew results from a competitive standpoint. We don't know how broken Terry or DLC fighter #5 could be. If we end up with a Sm4sh Bayo scenario, then there wouldn't be enough time for the dev team to make adjustments. I honestly see no reason to regard the ban as controversial as long as it's only temporary.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

They could have at least explained that reasoning.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm playing the Android version of DQ 4. Can I rename characters there?

 

[TheYungLink]

The Japanese user Ayumi Tachibana has posted the things Sakurai discussed on the Dragon Quest XI S livestream, for those of you who missed it.

The DQ livestream is very interesting. So much behind the scene things from Sakurai.
Just Hero bit here. I don't want to translate all but you should be looking forward for full-translation from PushDustIn.
Demands for DQ was always there but Sakurai thought it was just impossible however Nintendo said to him this time may be they can make it happen.
SE suggested Slime first but Sakurai really wanted Hero. Hero was first only had 11 and 3 skins but Horii gave him go for the others. Sakurai really wanted DQ3 hero and he had intention to create 8 different Heroes but he couldn't do it because of time constraints. The image of DQ1 hero is too varied and DQ5 protagonist is not a sword-wielder so they went with DQ4 hero instead. DQ8 protagonist was for overseas.
The concept of Hero was to represent the big-hearted, easygoing and generous feelings that DQ has. He knows that competitive players tend to dislike randomness but Smash is always meant to be a loose game.

One more thing.
It's not stated clearly but the talk between Sakurai and Fujimoto sounded like DQ was planned very early stage of Ultimate.
This is purely on my speculation but may be it sent to DLC because of JASRAC. DQ musics are managed by them and they always take money by percentage of the sales of the product so the cost will be far less if it's DLC.

Lot of huge info in here. I encourage you to read everything in Ayumi's posts for all the little tidbits, like how the rumors for DQ content in Smash lasted as long as they did due to the move to DLC being needed for the Dragon Quest music to be cheaper.

As someone who wanted the female versions of the Dragon Quest III and IV heroes, it looks like they were excluded due to time constraints.

It's still a bummer, but at least we have confirmation that it was only time constraints and not, say, Square Enix or Sakurai deliberately deciding that they should all be male. As sad as I am at their exclusion, knowing this does help a bit.

Not that there isn't a problem when female versions of characters with multiple genders are consistently put to the wayside over the male versions when one of them has to go (both Pokemon Red / Blue and Gold / Silver planned for female trainers yet only the male trainers made it in, for example, until Crystal broke the trend), but this is an entertainment industry-side problem, and not Smash-specific. So I'll be less hard on it than I was the past few months.

 

[Deleted member]

Apparently there is a new party member in the Switch version of DQXI. Wonder who it is?

 

[Deleted member]

The Japanese user Ayumi Tachibana has posted the things Sakurai discussed on the Dragon Quest XI S livestream, for those of you who missed it.





Lot of huge info in here. I encourage you to read everything in Ayumi's posts for all the little tidbits, like how the rumors for DQ content in Smash lasted as long as they did due to the move to DLC being needed for the Dragon Quest music to be cheaper.

As someone who wanted the female versions of the Dragon Quest III and IV heroes, it looks like they were excluded due to time constraints.

It's still a bummer, but at least we have confirmation that it was only time constraints and not, say, Square Enix or Sakurai deliberately deciding that they should all be male. As sad as I am at their exclusion, knowing this does help a bit.

Not that there isn't a problem when female versions of characters with multiple genders are consistently put to the wayside over the male versions when one of them has to go (both Pokemon Red / Blue and Gold / Silver planned for female trainers yet only the male trainers made it in, for example, until Crystal broke the trend), but this is an entertainment industry-side problem, and not Smash-specific. So I'll be less hard on it than I was the past few months.

Reminds me of Jane. Could have literally been Kasumi from Persona 5 R for all we knew.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Man, @JDCabrera needs to read that.

Thank goodness, there's yet some hope that Sofia and girl Loto may get to show up in Smash 6. I mean, considering that base game characters already lost skins from time constraints...

To think that some folks in the board assumed (and worried) that we'd get two playable enemies in the same game, turns out they weren't far off in that sense, kinda. Hero seems to be a Sakurai choice through and through, so is his claim of Nintendo selecting the DLC just being modesty after all?

Reminds me of Jane. Could have literally been Kasumi from Persona 5 R for all we knew.

Yet her supporters still think she stands a chance, due to her stuff in 5 R supposedly helping to accommodate her appearance in Smash.

 

[TheYungLink]

Apparently there is a new party member in the Switch version of DQXI. Wonder who it is?

I've been playing the demo in anticipation for the game finally coming out tomorrow, so whoever it is nobody spoil it please!

Reminds me of Jane. Could have literally been Kasumi from Persona 5 R for all we knew.

Neither female Erdrick nor Sofia have ponytails. It may have been Terry (from Fatal Fury).

I'm playing the Android version of DQ 4. Can I rename characters there?

I only have the DS version. Based on my research, it doesn't look like you can rename the characters in the smartphone version of DQ4.

Man, @JDCabrera needs to read that.

Thank goodness, there's yet some hope that Sofia and girl Solo may get to show up in Smash 6. I mean, considering that base game characters already lost skins from time constraints...

To think that some fols in the board assumed (and worried) that we'd get two playable enemies in the same game, turns out they weren't far off in that sense, kinda. Hero seems to be a Sakurai choice through and through, so is his claim of Nintendo selecting the DLC just being modesty after all?

By "girl Solo" you probably meant "girl Erdrick" (Sofia is "girl Solo") but yeah. I just don't want to think of a possible Smash 6, I would rather focus on the miracle that is Smash Ultimate, and how much of a bummer it is that Sakurai's team wasn't able to squeeze the women into this once-in-a-lifetime game.

The only miracle left for the female skins at this point is some kind of nebulous update that expands the color options from 8 to more than 8 to fit them in, but I doubt that that's happening by this point.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Neither female Erdrick nor Sofia have ponytails. It may have been Terry (from Fatal Fury).

By "girl Solo" you probably meant "girl Erdrick" (Sofia is "girl Solo") but yeah. I just don't want to think of a possible Smash 6, I would rather focus on the miracle that is Smash Ultimate, and how much of a bummer it is that Sakurai's team wasn't able to squeeze the women into this once-in-a-lifetime game.

No really, there actually is one, see: https://dragon-quest.org/wiki/Hero_(Dragon_Quest_III)

In any case, I doubt the next game will have trouble providing satisfactory side modes. Target Test is gone, and I haven't exactly seen much praise for World of Light.

I was thinking about that possibility for ponytail myself. If true, lordy, are some fanbases going to be crushed to learn this…

Edit: Update: I somehow mixed up Loto with Solo, please ignore my stupidity and carry on.

Also:

He knows that competitive players tend to dislike randomness but Smash is always meant to be a loose game.

How many times will these old players have to be teached this lesson?

 

[shinhed-echi]

I don't quite get the Dragon Quest 1 Hero appearance is "too varied".

Yes, they don't seem to settle between the "official" DQ1 Hero look, and the spinoff "Dragon Quest Kenshin" blonde hero look. But "Kenshin Alef" is just a spinoff take on the character. At no point in-game do you see him without the armor and helmet in DQ1. And they clearly went official for the final smash, so, I don't get the argument.
Madason, I understand. Not that he's NOT a swordwielder, though. He does wield them, if I'm not mistaken. He could always strap the iconic staff to his back.

Oh well. But I'm not complaining. I love what we got. If it had to come to 4 Heroes, the ones we got are precisely the ones I would have chosen.

But now taking Sakurai's view into account, the next 4 could have been: Sofia, Erdrick(a), Rek, and .... probably one of the main characters from DQX.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, if TV Tropes' assessment of the situation is correct, the first hero doesn't have an official design. The hell? Then what is that armor we've been seeing for all these years, then?

 

[Megadoomer]

I got Dragon Quest 1, 3, and 11 today, which is perfect timing because it turned out that I fractured my elbow a few weeks ago and now my arm's in a splint for the next three weeks. With that in mind, Dragon Quest is perfect - I can play it without having to worry about quick reflexes or complex controls, and the games will take quite a lot of time to beat.

I'm starting with Dragon Quest 1 - while I've heard that 3 is much better, I wanted to see where the series began, and I feel like I wouldn't be able to go back to 1 after playing 3. I'm going to try to avoid using a walkthrough, with the possible exception of dungeon maps. (the torch doesn't light up much of the area) The game seems pretty straightforward (find the princess, who's somewhere to the east; find three sages who are holding key items; and beat the Dragonlord, whose castle is right below the starting point.

I'm at level 8, though the only dungeon that I've beaten is a cave in the mountains that gave me a Warrior's Ring, a ton of gold, and an Iron Shield. Still, I have over a thousand gold (I think 1400 or so). so I should be able to upgrade my weapons and/or armour. I'm not sure how big the game's inventory is, though.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...scrapped-initially-just-luminary-and-erdrick/

Okay, so Nintendo still suggests DLC choices after all (although in this case it was "DQ character" rather than a specific one). Though Sakurai is still going to put his foot down for any reason if need be, though.

Maybe Slime will get his chance, another day...

 

[Deleted member]

An interesting takeway from the interview, is that DQ was requested a lot over the years which just supports the idea of Smash having a quite diverse fanbase.

I really liked that they went with the Hero, Slime is not bad but it wouldn't be my first choice for representing DQ. Now that Hero is in, Slime and/or other monsters would be cool (that or Alena).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

An interesting takeway from the interview, is that DQ was requested a lot over the years which just supports the idea of Smash having a quite diverse fanbase.

I really liked that they went with the Hero, Slime is not bad but it wouldn't be my first choice for representing DQ. Now that Hero is in, Slime and/or other monsters would be cool (that or Alena).

Good taste, I would go with Slime and Jessica myself.

 

[helloiamhere]

Got my copy of DQXI:S! Gonna start diving in soon.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, are any of you chaps good with photoshop and stuff? It feels like Hero's inclusion in Smash would fit the "All right, gentlemen!" meme.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/328/825/87c.jpg

 

[Megadoomer]

I beat Dragon Quest 1 over the weekend! It felt dated in some areas (only one save point, though thankfully the world is small enough that you can quickly get to where you want to go regardless), but it was still fun. I got all of the Erdrick equipment and the Silver Shield (had to use a map for the Erdrick Sword), and I managed to defeat at least one of every enemy in the game (the Metal Slime was particularly satisfying).

Not sure if I'll focus on Dragon Quest 3, Dragon Quest 11, or Final Fantasy 9 next, but I'll try them all and see what sticks.

 

[1FC0]

I have been playing Hero lately and he is insanely fun to play as IMO. I love Command Selection because it gives him many very diverse options to choose from, I like selecting commands, and it's part of what makes him complex. I also love the MP system. Managing it is very fun. I'm getting pretty quick now with choosing appropriate commands which makes Hero even more fun for me to play as. Though I have still a lot of room for improvement in quickly selecting the appropriate commands and thus for getting even more fun out of Hero.

I do no think that Hero needs to be nerfed. He has some very powerful moves, but they won't always come out when needed and most of them cost a lot of MP or only work randomly. Hero without MP is terrible. In addition selecting them from the menu still takes time. I've been able to use it in neutral sometimes but normally Hero will need to be in advantage before he can really use Command Selection to it's full potential.

Hero apparently also has even less grab range than R.O.B. I tried grabbing a R.O.B. and it failed due to lack of range, then the R.O.B. tried grabbing me and it succeeded. This says a lot because R.O.B.'s grabbing range is really terrible. Hero is also very slow in the Air and thus easily juggled. His normals are also pretty bad. He really needs his specials but all of them cost MP and the only way to get it back is by using his bad normals. So Hero will have to play at a a disadvantage a lot of the time. That's why I think his OP moves are warranted: Hero is going to have to play at a disadvantage when his MP gets low so it's only fair to compensate with good moves when his MP is high. If Hero's special moves were balanced then Hero would be pretty bad since he would switch during the match between being average and terrible.

Hero is definitely going to be one of my secondaries and I hope that his uniqueness (excluding his randomness) will not be lessened with patches.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

My copy of DQ11 should be coming in the mail today, I've been playing the demo since launch day and I can't wait to actually continue the story.

 

[Munchi]

New news the Hero will finally be able to play in the official tournament of France this change of decision apparently is to standardize the rules of the tournaments (since the Hero could be played in the rest of official tournaments around the world).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I feel humbled by the fact that DQ11 on Switch released 30 years after the first game arrived in America. There hadn't been a Western DQ launch this successful since the tie-in Nintendo Power campaign in '89.

 

[TheYungLink]

It felt dated in some areas (only one save point, though thankfully the world is small enough that you can quickly get to where you want to go regardless)

Yeah that's why it didn't feel dated to me, lol. But yeah, the simplicity of DQ1 is very refreshing in an age of complicated and long RPG stories and adventures.

I feel humbled by the fact that DQ11 on Switch released 30 years after the first game arrived in America. There hadn't been a Western DQ launch this successful since the tie-in Nintendo Power campaign in '89.

Even better since they aren't free copies that came with a magazine subscription, people are actually paying up front to buy the game. This gives me hope for the series' future in the west.

---

So I bought the game on Friday, but haven't really had time to dig into it, as that same weekend I had a couple of important essays due. I'll be free this week, though.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Back to playing Dragon Quest 3. Enemies are getting tough. Just arrived at the kingdom of, er, Isis (think Egyptian Goddess)

Having a fun time with it

 

[Deleted member]

DQXI S is really good.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Dragon Quest XI has outsold Link's Awakening's remake.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...i_s_knocks_zelda_links_awakening_off_top_spot

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Can anyone give me a list of where to find all the tockles (i hope i spelled that right) in the overworld? I don't want to miss those.

 

[Slime Master]

Can anyone give me a list of where to find all the tockles (i hope i spelled that right) in the overworld? I don't want to miss those.

I doubt there's a complete list yet, apparently some have been spotted behind post-game doors so it'll be a while. So far they seem to be pretty hard to miss though.

Quick google search doesn't seem to help much either. There's An ongoing thread on one of the more well-known DQ forums but it's been a while since anyone posted there, doesn't seem to be super high priority.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I doubt there's a complete list yet, apparently some have been spotted behind post-game doors so it'll be a while. So far they seem to be pretty hard to miss though.

Quick google search doesn't seem to help much either. There's An ongoing thread on one of the more well-known DQ forums but it's been a while since anyone posted there, doesn't seem to be super high priority.

I could have sworn this was content from the 3DS version so I thought there would have been some kind of documentation for it

 

[Slime Master]

I could have sworn this was content from the 3DS version so I thought there would have been some kind of documentation for it

Oh yeah, I think it is (or at least mostly). I haven't been able to find any list though, that's odd.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

As a recent fan of Dragon quest I wanted to look up it's Warriors spin off (i own the Other ones on Switch) I can't help but wonder why the Switch port of this one was left exclusively in Japan.

Shame, I would totally buy it, the Swich ports of Wariors games have pretty good value compared to their original versions.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

As a recent fan of Dragon quest I wanted to look up it's Warriors spin off (i own the Other ones on Switch) I can't help but wonder why the Switch port of this one was left exclusively in Japan.

Shame, I would totally buy it, the Swich ports of Wariors games have pretty good value compared to their original versions.

DQ hadn't regained its worldwide appeal yet, that's why (Rocket Slime and DQM Joker were also affected). Heck, it's a miracle that KT brought it over in the first place.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Just beat DQ 2 today it was really easy it shouldn't be that way right people say that's one of the harder entries

 

[GolisoPower]

Just beat DQ 2 today it was really easy it shouldn't be that way right people say that's one of the harder entries

I think people thought so because they thought the XP distribution was bad.

 

[Megadoomer]

Just beat DQ 2 today it was really easy it shouldn't be that way right people say that's one of the harder entries

I think they did their best to adjust the difficulty in rereleases (I'm assuming that you beat the Switch version, though correct me if I'm wrong). In the NES version, I've read that the endgame wasn't playtested due to a lack of time, much like Mt. Itoi in Earthbound Beginnings. As a result, certain enemies (I've read them being described as golden winged baboons) could kill your entire party with the Sacrifice spell before your party members got the chance to act, forcing you to go through a long difficult dungeon with no save points over and over again due to pure bad luck.

 

[Slime Master]

I think they did their best to adjust the difficulty in rereleases (I'm assuming that you beat the Switch version, though correct me if I'm wrong). In the NES version, I've read that the endgame wasn't playtested due to a lack of time, much like Mt. Itoi in Earthbound Beginnings. As a result, certain enemies (I've read them being described as golden winged baboons) could kill your entire party with the Sacrifice spell before your party members got the chance to act, forcing you to go through a long difficult dungeon with no save points over and over again due to pure bad luck.

Pretty much this. Also the final boss could cast fullheal, completely restoring his health on a whim.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I think they did their best to adjust the difficulty in rereleases (I'm assuming that you beat the Switch version, though correct me if I'm wrong). In the NES version, I've read that the endgame wasn't playtested due to a lack of time, much like Mt. Itoi in Earthbound Beginnings. As a result, certain enemies (I've read them being described as golden winged baboons) could kill your entire party with the Sacrifice spell before your party members got the chance to act, forcing you to go through a long difficult dungeon with no save points over and over again due to pure bad luck.

Glad I didn't play the nes version then

 

[TheYungLink]

Yeah I played DQ2 on my smartphone (Android version) and, while tough, it wasn't too unfair. The winged baboon enemies were definitely tough because of their Kamikazee spell, but by that point you usually had the Princess of Moonbrooke with the Zing spell, so you had a chance of being able to deal with their deaths should she have survived.

The final boss is indeed super tough but somehow (my party members individually died a lot the whole time) I beat it on my first try and it never used Fullheal, so either I was lucky or it was taken out of the rerelease.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Yeah I played DQ2 on my smartphone (Android version) and, while tough, it wasn't too unfair. The winged baboon enemies were definitely tough because of their Kamikazee spell, but by that point you usually had the Princess of Moonbrooke with the Zing spell, so you had a chance of being able to deal with their deaths should she have survived.

The final boss is indeed super tough but somehow (my party members individually died a lot the whole time) I beat it on my first try and it never used Fullheal, so either I was lucky or it was taken out of the rerelease.

I was following a walkthrough and everytime they said you should be at this level I was already ahead of them it also didn't help that I wondered around getting important items early when I could but I got lucky on the final boss because someone got a critical hit

 

[GolisoPower]

Okay, guys, new head-canon after playing a but more of DQ3:

The only reason that Hero's Whack/Thwack sometimes doesn't work is because the Fighters bring assorted amounts of Dieamands with them to protect them.