Helping The Useless: Move Theorymon

[Terywj [태리]]

Magikarp used Splash!​

Let's face the facts. There are countless moves in the Pokemon world which lack really any use. Geodude used Mud Sport! Roselia used Sweet Scent! Seaking used Water Sport! What could we possibly do the make these useless (or near useless moves) valuable in a way that would benefit, change, or shift the current metagame?

I do understand that there are indeed purpose for useless moves for the sole purpose of being useless moves. However, I wanted to see what the members of the PokeCenter could brainstorm ideas for possible edits. Remember: this is completely theorymon. This is just for fun and isn't an attempt to try and balance the metagame or something. These will not be applied to the OU+ metagame and I believe UltiMario isn't capable of such edits at current point anyway.

I would like to bring up at least one or two moves per "discussion", discussing the suggested changes, benefits, drawbacks, playstyle changes of some of the Pokemon, etc. I'd rather we keep this in a non-SmashCAP environment, as in we're all discussing together and not trying to outcompete one another and stuff like that, etc. etc. I'll keep a log just for the sake of keeping logs of our theorymons.

I'll start with Foresight.

Normal-type, -- Power, -- Accuracy, 5 PP
Effect: Evasion modifiers are cancelled, Normal- and Fighting-type moves can hit Foresighted Ghost-types.

Now Foresight has always been "useless." A move which once used, allowed you to hit Ghost-types with Normal- and Fighting-type moves, but was a complete waste of a moveslot unless your opponent had a bunch of Ghost-types and you had the right Pokemon to abuse it. Now Hitmontop is probably the only Pokemon which actually uses Foresight, catching Spiritomb and Mismagius on the switch and usually being able to Rapid Spin for free. However...

Change Effect: All immunities are nullified, giving neutral damage.
What Does This Change?: Right off the bat lots of changes occur. Poison-types can hit Steel-types. Electric-types can hit Ground-types. Ghost-types can hit Normal-types, etc. This stirs up a lot of stuff. Skarmory is now threatened by a supereffective Earthquake whether it decides to Roost or not. Toxic is now effective on Steel-type Pokemon and can be used to wear them down. While being limited to a move and not something like Scrappy is unfortunate, it could still theoretically open up a lot of possibilities. Hitmontop now runs Foresight / Close Combat / Earthquake / Stone Edge or something and there are no "safe" switch-ins. THe distribution of Foresight is decent, and something like Swampert might enjoy a chance to smack Skarmory or Dragonite with a STAB Earthquake once in a while.

What do you guys think?

 

[UberMario]

Interesting idea, though the fact that Poison could end up hitting Steel with this move doesn't really have to do with the "Foresight" name . . . . .

Splash: Increases evasiveness by one stage, may cause damage to either the foe or to the user.
Mud Sport: . . . . . . .This is actually a really good move when used properly, I had to wait for my Linoone to learn it before beating Wattson because of all the freaking Shockwaves his Magneton would spam. >_>
Sweet Scent: lowers evasiveness AND attack by one stage, may infatuate foe if opposite gender

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I actually came up with an idea for Mud Sport and Water Sport. What if we made them act as Magnet Rise for Electric- and Fire-type moves, respectively? Unfortunately the Pokemon which have those two moves already are immune or resist the moves, but gaining immunity to a type for 5 turns or so is always appreciated.

I didn't want this thread to just have a jumbled mess of ideas floating around but hey if we can keep up discussions like this then I'm all for it.

 

[Gates]

nevermind, apparently I don't know what moves do.

 

[Wave⁂]

Extrasensory:

No change in power, additional affect allows you to see your opponent's moves.

 

[Kofu]

Rock Smash: Increase base power from 20 to 50, increase flinch rate to 30%. This makes it, effectively, a better Cut.

Rock Smash has always had a secondary effect of a 50% of lowering the foe's defense one stage, and in the 4th Generation had its power boosted to 40. It was actually fairly useful on my Machamp (in-game, anyway).

A greater power boost, to 60, might make it competitively useful.

 

[Gates]

herp disregard what I said then.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Rock Smash should just lower defense one stage. A power boost would be nice as well.

Now let's talk about something ACTUALLY useless, like Bide. +1/+1 defenses in addition to the 2-turn wait? XP

 

[Wave⁂]

With 50 power and 100% chance of lowering defense, it's still a pretty bad move. I'd say boost it to 65 or 70.

 

[mood4food77]

make it 60 so it can be technician abused


(it's a way to make hitmontop broken)

what's the point of having both aerial ace and wing attack?
one of them should change but i don't know what one

 

[Wave⁂]

Wing Attack has more PP, Aerial Ace never misses.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Wing Attack is still a move that could possibly be ysed nonetheless.

Moves like Bide, Mud Sport, etc. still have their drawbacks.
What did you guys think of my suggested ideas for Mud Sport and Water Sport?

 

[E123-omega]

Wing Attack has more PP, Aerial Ace never misses.

Pokemon without wings can use aerial ace.

 

[Kofu]

Mud Sport and Water Sport would be better if their effects remained after the user switched out of battle. I believe they were designed for Double Battles, anyway.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I think instead of giving weakened effects it could be immunities.

 

[UberMario]

Mud Sport and Water Sport would be better if their effects remained after the user switched out of battle. I believe they were designed for Double Battles, anyway.

That doesn't make any sense, you let one pokemon get covered in mud/water, and magically the next pokemon ends up coming out of the pokeball with mud/water too? However, it covering teammates when in double/triple battles would be pretty cool.

 

[M.K]

I always imagined that the user spread Water/Mud around the field, but I guess spreading it on the actual Pokemon itself makes more sense.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

That doesn't make any sense, you let one pokemon get covered in mud/water, and magically the next pokemon ends up coming out of the pokeball with mud/water too? However, it covering teammates when in double/triple battles would be pretty cool.

Theoretically using Mud Sport or Water Sport remained for a couple turns, didn't it? In that case, it makes aesthetic sense that the switch-in would also receive the benefits.

Another possibly way to change Mud and Water Sport is make their "type-limit" more versatile. Like say, Mud Sport weakens Electric, Fire, and Grass-type moves while Water Sport weaknes Fire, Ice, and Poison-type moves.

 

[Chill]

That doesn't make any sense, you let one pokemon get covered in mud/water, and magically the next pokemon ends up coming out of the pokeball with mud/water too? However, it covering teammates when in double/triple battles would be pretty cool.

Following that logic it should remain on the pokemon who used it for a few turns or the duration of the battle. Unless going into a pokeball magically cleans them off...

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Well if a burned Pokemon switches out it still retains the burn, not counting Pokemon with Natural Cure. Therefore, I'd think they would retain the effects of Mud / Water Sport.

 

[UltiMario]

Mud Sport and Water Sport would be better if they negated Fire or Electric damage altogether for 5 turns.

Yes.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Yeah so like Magnet Rise but for different types.

 

[E123-omega]

Mud Sport and Water Sport would be better if they negated Fire or Electric damage altogether for 5 turns.

Yes.

Wouldn't that leave skarmory with no weaknesses?

 

[Wave⁂]

Well sure, if you want to use them both.

Also, Water Sport vs. Rain Dance?

 

[E123-omega]

What we need is mud sport to weaken water moves, that way we don't make sun teams suck more and rain team kill more.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Wouldn't that leave skarmory with no weaknesses?

Skarmory can use Water Sport?

 

[E123-omega]

Double battles, Skarm could use protect while Relicanth use mud or water sport.

 

[Wave⁂]

Skarmory in doubles?

 

[E123-omega]

I was giving an example.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I was giving an example.

But that's like the only example possible for a scenario, and a stretch at that.

 

[E123-omega]

I think leach seed should paralyze and drain life.

 

[MetallicMario]

Subseed is already broken enough. On some Pokemon, anyway.

Ex: Abomasnow.

 

[Wave⁂]

Abomasnow? Broken? That's a good one.

Try Jumpluff and Skymin in Ubers.

 

[MetallicMario]

Well, he's not broken, but I have 6-0ed with him and his Subseed set quite a few times

 

[Circa]

That just means the opponent had no clue at all as to how you're supposed to beat it.

 

[MetallicMario]

Or he/she let me set up. If I set up, I can usually take down around 3 Pokemon before Aboma dies. Or gets Taunted.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Basically leech seed is good enough already.

I really think Stun Spore should have 85% accuracy, same as Toxic.

 

[Wave⁂]

That sounds good. But why not 100%?

 

[kirbyraeg]

Only because it affects everything (except the few things that have Limber).

Thunder Wave at least gives ground-types a free switch-in, which would theoretically make that small trade-off worthwhile.

 

[Gates]

I think Flash should have a high rate of flinch as well as or instead of reducing accuracy.