Helping The Useless: Move Theorymon

[Deathfox30]

The UU environment has changed since March. Even then, if you were running Foresight why would you use Blastoise over Hitmontop? Hitmontop can threaten Spiritomb with a supereffect STAB Close Combat / Mach Punch whereas Blastoise can't. If Blastoise did indeed run Foresight frequently last March, then I'm surprised I never saw so in many UU battles.

Bluewind popularized Foresight Blastoise in UU back in March. It was used A LOT. Why use it over Hitmontop? It's bulkier, it beats Moltres one on one, and it's a very, very good partner for Venusaur. Blastoise also doesn't mind status as much, since it's a special attacker. Mismagius easily sets up on Hitmontop, whereas Blastoise can Roar her away.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69466 - posted April 5th, 2010. Date is consistent with what I said, he would've been laddering in February and March.

I disagree that Foresight is or has ever been "useless."

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Deathfox, there's a reason why I put "useless" in quotation marks, as it asserts itself a niche in the aforementioned Hitmontop and Blastoise. But outside of everything else, such as Substitute, U-Turn, Earthquake, Draco Meteor, etc. etc. it's definitely one of the more least used moves in Pokemon.

Edit - *One of the more least used moves that have competitive merit, anyway.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I think most people honestly wanted a spinner that wasn't weak to Thunderbolt, as I think there was a higher average of teams that used offensive spinblocks over bulkier things like Spiritomb. Mismagius could set up a calm mind vs. Blastoise and cripple it with Thunderbolt. Rotom could KO with Thunderbolt as well, so I guess people liked the feeling of having a spinner that doesn't die in two hits, instead dying in 3 to Shadow Ball. :/ Blastoise with some EVs could surprise spinblockers with Hydro Pump but targeting their lower defense stat with Close Combat is arguably more useful.

 

[asianaussie]

You can't possibly compare Foresight to some of the best moves in Pokemon. Otherwise ditto terywj

bulky countercoat foresight spinner blastoise :3

 

[Claire Diviner]

The thing we could really use is a Scrappy Pokémon with Rapid Spin. As long as it isn't marred with a terrible typing, stat placement, etc., I swear it'd be OU for being able to always hit with Rapid Spin.

We didn't get one in Gen V. Assuming there'd be a VI down the road, I would say we'd be overdue for one... unless Nintendo brings in a freak-of-nature move tutor in a third game or so that can teach Miltank and/or Kangaskhan Rapid Spin. I want it more for Miltank though: I've always liked that cow. XD

 

[UltiMario]

Why doesn't Miltank get Rapid Spin.

Whyyyyyyyyyy

 

[Kofu]

Because they didn't think that a breakdancing cow was a good idea.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Because they didn't think that a breakdancing cow was a good idea.

Yet, somehow, a Steelix soaring through the skies with Magnet Rise made more sense. Funny how Gamefreak's logic works. Yeah, Steelix is a Steel-type and is thus vulnerable to magnetic fields, but I still find a 32-foot long iron serpent flying across the stratosphere to be rediculous (if a bit hilarious).

 

[asianaussie]

delibird gets rapid spin...if a penguin santa-mon can get it why can't kangaskhan...hasn't anyone seen kangaskhan's pokemon stadium animations...it's totally down wit' it.

gamefreak are such freaking trolls...on the topic of foresight, hitmonlee and -top get it, but not hitmonchan! hitmonchan's the freaking boxer, he needs foresight more than the bloody beyblade-mon...

 

[Claire Diviner]

gamefreak are such freaking trolls...on the topic of foresight, hitmonlee and -top get it, but not hitmonchan! hitmonchan's the freaking boxer, he needs foresight more than the bloody beyblade-mon...

Well, I suppose the tradeoff for Hitmonchan is being able to hit hard with his punching moves, thanks to Iron Fist. Plus, with boosted elemental punches, Foresight may be seen as an afterthought on Hit4chan. Of course, this is merely my opinion.

 

[UltiMario]

Even though Hitmonchan is the worst of the Hitmons :3

 

[asianaussie]

Well, I suppose the tradeoff for Hitmonchan is being able to hit hard with his punching moves, thanks to Iron Fist. Plus, with boosted elemental punches, Foresight may be seen as an afterthought on Hit4chan. Of course, this is merely my opinion.

you think i care about balance?

it's just freaking common sense...if you're going to let blissey conjure rocks out of thin air, why not let flygon do it? boxers need a lot of foresight...so seriously, get rid of comet punch or something and give it foresight for the sake of appearances...

 

[Claire Diviner]

you think i care about balance?

it's just freaking common sense...if you're going to let blissey conjure rocks out of thin air, why not let flygon do it? boxers need a lot of foresight...so seriously, get rid of comet punch or something and give it foresight for the sake of appearances...

Heh, you wanna talk about moves to give to Hitmonchan? Give it Meteor Mash: it's programmed as a punching move and does get boosted by Iron Fist. As it currently stands, no Pokémon with Iron Fist can learn Meteor Mash, and that's a real waste of potential.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

you think i care about balance?

it's just freaking common sense...if you're going to let blissey conjure rocks out of thin air, why not let flygon do it? boxers need a lot of foresight...so seriously, get rid of comet punch or something and give it foresight for the sake of appearances...

This thread is for discussing possible edits to very unused moves in competitive Pokemon, not flavor reasons as to why some Pokemon get moves while others do not. You could make a thread for that, if you wish.

I have a couple other moves I've been thinking about editing. I should have these ideas out tomorrow.

 

[asianaussie]

i just got dragged along by the tides of topic, sorry :3

 

[Tenodera]

Natural gift seems terribly underused. It's a one-time, potentially stronger, Physical Hidden Power. Not great for a sweeping role, but I could see it on more defensive Pokemon who would enjoy a chance to surprise-kill one of their counters. Imagine Skarmory smacking a Heatran switch-in with Ground Natural Gift!

I just noticed I also missed the point of the thread...

 

[E123-omega]

Heh, you wanna talk about moves to give to Hitmonchan? Give it Meteor Mash: it's programmed as a punching move and does get boosted by Iron Fist. As it currently stands, no Pokémon with Iron Fist can learn Meteor Mash, and that's a real waste of potential.

It's called "Why doesn't X pokemon get Y attack/ability."

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Heh, you wanna talk about moves to give to Hitmonchan? Give it Meteor Mash: it's programmed as a punching move and does get boosted by Iron Fist. As it currently stands, no Pokémon with Iron Fist can learn Meteor Mash, and that's a real waste of potential.

You understand that as it stands of pre-B/W only Hitmonchan has Iron Fist lol.

 

[Tenodera]

You understand that as it stands of pre-B/W only Hitmonchan has Iron Fist lol.

Ol' Metagross should have got Iron Fist instead of one of those relatively useless weight abilities.

Back on topic once again, Slam must be one of the worst moves available. Same power as Strength but with worse accuracy. It'd be fitting to give it a flinch chance, or even lowering the opponent's Defense.

 

[E123-omega]

the worst move goes to the infamous tackle, weak as hell, and has 95 accuracy.

 

[UltiMario]

It's 50 power 100 acc in Gen V.

 

[Wave⁂]

Optimal for PP stalling.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

It's 50 power 100 acc in Gen V.

Gonna definitely use this on that Choice Band Technician Ambipom.

Edit - I don't even think Ambipom gets Tackle lol.

 

[xxmoosexx]

the worst move goes to the infamous tackle, weak as hell, and has 95 accuracy.

Don't be hatin on Tackle. You can't hate a move that single handedly gets you threw the first 5 hours of pokemon.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Scratch can do that too, and it ain't 95% accurate.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Props to scratch.

Charmander was too frail to learn tackle

 

[E123-omega]

Scratch can do that too, and it ain't 95% accurate.

pound had 40 power and it ain't 95% accurate

 

[Terywj [태리]]

pound had 40 power and it ain't 95% accurate

Unfortunately for us, only Treecko actually got Pound.

Edit - And Piplup.

 

[xxmoosexx]

So...uh...when do we move on to the next move?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So...uh...when do we move on to the next move?

There's no real succession of moves. I just used Foresight as a jumping-off point for discussion. Everything is spontaneous discussion, so feel free to bring up your own ideas and suggestions.

 

[mood4food77]

Hard Roller is too weak of a move to use and is very limited with pokes who get it

it's a base 65 Bug attack that can cause flinching, i'd say boost it up to 75 or even 85 and keep everything the same, then give it to more pokemon than just golem and the new Bug/Poison family

 

[xxmoosexx]

I still wouldn't use it. Just because of a power raise you would use it?
I think it should stay have 60 BP has priority and has a 40-50% chance of flinching.

Now that is something I would use. *Scizor in mind*

 

[UltiMario]

120 power 40% Flinching move with priority when used with Scizor?

Broken as ****.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Lol. Then take out the flinch rate and now scizor would run that move over quick attack.