Help with SH

[mastermoo420]

This is a really general question, really, but I just have trouble with short-hopping with some characters. Fox being one of them. >_> I can SH easily with people like Falco, but there's just some I can't SH well with. Fox being one of them. Same with ICs. Oddly enough, those two are the ones I can WD the best with.

Does anyone have any tips/ideas to help with this? Different controller? Different way of holding the controller? The only way I can do SH for Fox is REALLY lightly tap the X or Y button, but the amount of precision I have to put into doing that is highly impractical.

EDIT: Saw this - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=50219&goto=nextnewest

Looking into it atm.

EDIT 2: Fox Movement Tricks guide linked me somewhere different

 

[Cyan_]

I believe short hopping is not how light you press X/Y, but how short you hold it down.

So just quickly tap X/Y then release it as fast as you can. Take an hour off and just practice in training mode, you'll get it eventually.

 

[mastermoo420]

Yeah, I know that SH != how light X/Y is pressed (lol, why would they measure pressure?), but there's definitely a correlation between how light you press it and how short you hold it down. You know what I mean?

 

[Zyzyx77]

An easy way to SH with any character is to just touch the X/Y button with your thumb, and then slide your thumb off of the X/Y button quickly. You should find SH'ing with any character a whole lot easier this way.

So in this order:

1. Put your thumb on the X/Y button.
2. Quickly slide your thumb off of the X/Y button.

With above, you should find SH'ing a whole lot easier.

 

[mastermoo420]

Thanks for the tip, but I've tried that. It actually works really well, but these are the problems I have with it:
- Sometimes the SH doesn't even come out because I barely pressed it, lol
- The fact I need to slide off creates a lot of wasted movements in my fingers, and that's bad
- Going along with that second one, there's a lot of wasted movements, so doing this during a game seems a bit impractical to me.

But those are just my speculations. m i doin it rite? If my problems are simply due to the way I'm executing this, by all means, please correct me.

EDIT: Oh, wait, my main problem is actually that, anytime I try to go from SH to anything (such as SHL without the FF for now), I tend to full jump.

 

[Sizzle]

For me, hitting it quickly, rather than lightly was easier to short hop with Fox.

 

[Zyzyx77]

If u can tell me what button u use to jump, I could help you some more.

 

[mastermoo420]

I use X to jump.

 

[Zyzyx77]

1. First, just try to get a feel for the timing of the SH.
2. Once you are able to SH easily, then try doing some of the other techniques that involve SH, such as the SHL.

As for pressing speed, since u use X to jump (I personally find it easier to use Y), try sliding your finger away from the other buttons (to the right) if u find urself pressing buttons you think you didn't press.

Lastly, when ur learning the SH, if u find urself not hitting the X button, look at ur finger before u press X.

Edit: Was having a delay in reply because of a power outage. xP

Edit2: When you get better at it, you'll be able to do it really fast, so it is practical.

 

[mastermoo420]

Your edit2 seems like it makes sense. And yeah, I can SH easily, but that's just when I'm standing around doing nothing, lol. And I mean that SHing into other stuff tends to make me full jump. So, yeah, I'll be practicing this.

 

[Zyzyx77]

A method is to easily be able to SH in place, and once your good at that, practice running around and SH'ing. You'll get it in time. After all, Fox does have the hardest SH in the game.

Edit: A good practice stage, I think, is a flat stage, like FD, because there are no obstacles in the way when u start running around.

Edit2: If u haven't alrdy, read Cunning's guide to Fox.

 

[bahamutz69]

yea fox has the smallest window to SH out of all the characters
so i think you have to press and release the jump button within 4 or 7 frames, im not sure

but yea if your using x try putting just your thumb nail on the very right edge of the button and sliding it off
thats what i did with y
and its silly that i still have the reflex when i WD to slide my fingers off the button
works like a charm, it did for me at least

man i should break that habit

 

[TresChikon]

Ice Climbers and Fox's jump animation takes 4 frames (1/15th of a second) to get you airborne.

In order to register a SH with Fox, ICs, or anyone with a 4-frame jump, you need to let go of the jump input by the 3rd frame (1/20th of a second.)

It's purely muscle memory, there is no magic technique other than practice.

Falco's jump animation takes 6 frames (1/10th of a second) to get you airborne.

His SH is much easier since you have up to 5 frames (1/12th of a second) to let go.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ correction: fox is airborne on the 4th frame, the animation only takes 3 frames. In order to SH with any character you have to release the jump button by halfway through the jump animation (rounded up). With fox this is 2nd frame, which is why so many people have difficulty with it.

Falco's is 5 frames long, so you have to release jump by frame 3.

 

[Zyzyx77]

fox is airborne on the 4th frame, the animation only takes 3 frames..

I thought Fox was airborne on frame 3, am I wrong?

Edit: I thought the rule of the SH was to let go of the jump button before u are airborne, is that true?

 

[mastermoo420]

Regardless, it seems like it's just that Fox is harder to SH with than Falco. Man, this proves the point that even 1/60th of a second counts in every melee fight, lol. Time to get to work, considering this is muscle memory. Also, for SHFFL-ing, do you think it's better to use C-stick or the control stick + A? It'll be better so I know whether to SH with X or Y.

EDIT: Y seems to be better for SHFFLing. I can quickly release to easily SH, but the tip of my thumb goes waaay off the controller, but if I use Y, then the lower parts of my thumb can access the A.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

C stick is the best. I only use A when i need to middle hop with falcon

 

[mastermoo420]

Yeah, I was told C-stick is good for the airs. Okay, now I know how to practice well. :3

 

[ArcNatural]

1. First, just try to get a feel for the timing of the SH.
2. Once you are able to SH easily, then try doing some of the other techniques that involve SH, such as the SHL.

As for pressing speed, since u use X to jump (I personally find it easier to use Y), try sliding your finger away from the other buttons (to the right) if u find urself pressing buttons you think you didn't press.

Lastly, when ur learning the SH, if u find urself not hitting the X button, look at ur finger before u press X.

Edit: Was having a delay in reply because of a power outage. xP

Edit2: When you get better at it, you'll be able to do it really fast, so it is practical.

Why would you ever suggest this notion. Any situation involving pressing a button and moving the opposite direction of the other ones is a bad idea. Everything else is ok though.

Remove your X button from your controller, learn Y.

 

[TresChikon]

With fox this is 2nd frame, which is why so many people have difficulty with it.

Holy hell, only 2 frames to do it?

I feel good about myself then lol.

 

[`DNS`]

probably been said already but...

fox and ICs have the fastest jumps in the game(you're in the air almost instantly) and i've heard that you have to release the jump button before it's halfway done, and you have literally 2 frames(?) to release it for it to be a short-hop. you probably think that it's easiest with them because you have to push the 2 buttons at essentially the same time, whereas other characters like bowser, that take 20 frames or something to jump require more timing than fox's (timing is used for lack of a better word ) and he is so easy to sh with even if your keys are all sticky </rant>

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

On an off note, i think people should learn to WD with bowser first because they would be able to get the concept down and be less overwhelmed by the overall speed of the process with other characters.

 

[Zyzyx77]

1. First, just try to get a feel for the timing of the SH.
2. Once you are able to SH easily, then try doing some of the other techniques that involve SH, such as the SHL.

As for pressing speed, since u use X to jump (I personally find it easier to use Y), try sliding your finger away from the other buttons (to the right) if u find urself pressing buttons you think you didn't press.

Lastly, when ur learning the SH, if u find urself not hitting the X button, look at ur finger before u press X.

Edit: Was having a delay in reply because of a power outage. xP

Edit2: When you get better at it, you'll be able to do it really fast, so it is practical.

Why would you ever suggest this notion. Any situation involving pressing a button and moving the opposite direction of the other ones is a bad idea. Everything else is ok though.

Remove your X button from your controller, learn Y.

When I said slide your finger away from the other buttons, I meant do it like that so you could get the timing down, and that after u got the timing to find a different method of sliding, for example, sliding your thumb to the left(I go to the right) when using the Y button, I DID NOT say that sliding your finger away from the other buttons was a good and permanent method for SH'ing. But I do agree with ArcNatural about using the Y button, Y button is SO MUCH BETTER than the X button. You can get to other buttons easier if u use Y. Sorry if there was any confusion.

 

[nyc_tag$]

Practice makes perfect.