help with fox/falco/peach (some vids are up, more to come)

[unknown522]

I've been in the smash scene for a while, and I used to be really up there with my mario/doc, but now ppl are starting to get better than me. I always have had a lot of trouble facing those 3 characters, cuz of how hard it is to land a grab on them or hit them. When they keep spamming moves I find no room to get in a grab/attack, or I just get out-prioritized in most stiuations.

Any advice at all would be appreciated. Here are some vids that have the specific dates on them. I lost in all of them (u can notice I have the hardest time with peach). Delorted is 1st in the GTA PR, RaynEX is 3rd, and most of u know who Chester is and is 3rd in the East Coast of Canada.

SMASHTURBATION Aug 4, 2007:

Winners Bracket : Finals
UNKNOWN522 vs. DELORTED1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C4q1HZrIN4Y

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-syDBQkVhrU

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WWcIO0Ybh30

Losers Bracket : Finals
UNKNOWN522 vs. RAYNEX

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kRh_-oK4Qrc
(the rest are fox dittos so I won't post them)

STARFURRY Sept 29, 2007:

Winners Bracket : Quarter-Finals
CHESTER vs. UNKNOWN522

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d4ksIdkT4vA

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PIZi3m5O-BU

Lol, only 2 new vids:

SMASHTURBATION Oct 20, 2007:

RUNAWAYFIRE vs. UNKNOWN522

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JlG-4Nb-zkc

AMBROSE vs. UNKNOWN522

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LoM9ok4P1w4

 

[Bullet Bill]

Fox -look to see the approaches coming. They are fast but easily avoided if you can spot them. Cover your aerials with jabs so that you have grab opportunities or just dsmash. Don't forget chainthrowing. It's worth doing if you get a grab, and if you to put the pressure on dthrow to fsmash and get edguarding

Falco -be patient and don't let him suck you into the shine combos if you can help it. Sheildrolling is good in this matchup I think as It will save worryig about pillaring or SHl to grab. Use good spacing for the full jump pills as they counter falco pretty well.

Peach -Will be floatcancelling a fair amout, so try and get in her way whilst she's hovering. Full jump pills bounce right into her or you can try a quick uair. I'd uair approach more in this matchup cos if it hits you can combo out of it. And don't forget to cape all the turnips. Avoid the Dsmash at all costs and try and counter it with fairs.

 

[unknown522]

Thx billet bill, I'll keep that in mind.

vids coming up now in the first post. More to come later

 

[unknown522]

nothin else still??

 

[Bullet Bill]

vs Peach FD

Did you know that Doc has this amazing move called the super sheet? All you have to do is press forward and B and you can reflect projectiles (such as peach's turnips) back at your opponent. How cool is that!!!!
Excuse the sarcasm but it really did pain me to see you get turniped to death when you can reflect them easily. you can do it whilst recovering and even when a turnip is thrown above at you. your pill spam is good but a bit too much as well. Try and make use of any pill stun you have or just follow up with a grab if they sheild it. Overall your Doc was way too defensive against peach. Where were the jab combo's? where were the dsmashes? This should be bread and butter for not only this matchup but for Doc in general. At the edge you were using the bair well to put pressure on but don't forget to use it on the stage as well and do stuff like waveland out of it. Don't be scared of peach's dsmash too much. I rekon this is why you played so defensively. Most peach's are pretty predictable as to when they will dsmash, eg after a flost cancelled fair. so predict it and punish with a fair. One other thing- fast fall the full jump pills or waveland.

vs Peach PS

Same applies regarding the turnip spam. I didn't see one cape in that entire game . Again try and be more aggressive. some good uair combos but a lack of variety really. why not shffl uair approach and then follow up with a jab combo. Try and bait the floating fair that peaches love to use so much. if they're floating above you make sure you keep moving so they have no idea when you'll approach. Then if they drop and fair WD back and fair the inevitable dsmash. Peach players also like to dash attack a lot for some reason somake sure you spot them as they can be sheildgrabbed easily.

 

[SpruceTengu]

I'm in no position to give you advice, but I'd have to say you might have wanted to vary the pills a bit, too. The full jump pills work great against Peach, but nothing works wella gainst any player if they know its coming every time. Also, i find that short-hopped or ground pills work well to get the way of oncoming projectiles like the radishes; leaving you room to run in an catch them yourself, or else jsut, do something else. Also, i think Nair isn't the best choice with peach; it just seems too drifty, and something she could accomodate too well, while the more sudden movements with things like Fair would definitely serve you better in getting off some more effective hits. Also--though im not sure how well it works in this case--I think jab to grab might be a good idea? I just didnt see it used much, but i think it might be good for interrupting some fo her drifty combos.. even an uptilt would do great here, too.

 

[unknown522]

thx. Honestly vs peach I am too afraid to jab cuz they CC a lot. And I am too afraid of the D-smash. I'll try to work on my game more tho, and use the cape more offensively. I'm still open to more advice.

 

[Bullet Bill]

bait the Dsmash. You have the fair and the fair kills the dsmash. Don't forget to cape the turnips!!!!!!!!!!

 

[unknown522]

alright. It actually worked for me yesterday, but I still need more game strategeys

 

[Locke)]

Make every chain grab count. After so many up throws one downthrow can catch them off guard which can lead to a forward smash. With enough percent if the downthrow isnt DI'd the fsmash is guaranteed as well.

Even if peach crouchcancels a downsmash, you'll only get hit once if you're careful. That shouldnt put you off jabbing her because it leads to grabs and downsmashes which you need.

 

[unknown522]

alright, I'll keep that in mind. Possibly more vids soon

 

[SmashMac]

Go to my thread. It should help.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=115319

 

[Cyphus]

against peach, jab, jab, SH. F.air works wonderfully. Especially attacking over D.Smashes (it really baits it well)
they'll prolly shield the f.air though, so just jab again, and then either jab/grab/or SH f.air. from my experience...its a situational tool, but it can really mess w/ them.

 

[Bullet Bill]

good idea___

 

[unknown522]

smashmac thx a lot. I checked it yesterday when I noticed the thread. This really helped me @ yesterday's tourney

 

[The Phenom]

Hey I just watched one vid for a min. and your waiting for open windows . In the past you were up there because people would be less skilled . You repeat to much of the same attacks to stall (pills) . I guess you didn't think of the situation you caused well enough . You were also attacking every time you were close to your opponent , weres the mind game in that ?

Take this and reflect on your mistakes. And look at advice from others that could help .

 

[unknown522]

thx alot. This has really helped me earlier. To slow down and analize really helps

 

[Kashakunaki]

I'll give you advice when I can actually watch your videos -.-

Maybe I can be of some help.

 

[RaynEX]

dammit ryan. you didnt cape any turnips. 0_0

&i suk a$$ in that match. lulz.

 

[unknown522]

lol I know. I was watching and I was like "wtf??"

 

[the CRAB]

i know you've gotten like...400 pieces of advice v.s. peach already. but every little bit helps i suppose.

one way to stop peach's dsmash is to aim for her head. this really applies to all characters, but if she's trying to counter one of your air attacks, and you hit her in the face, you wont get hit by the dsmash. so if you see it coming, dont fast fall, and boot that skank in the head.

 

[Gea]

I think against the best Peaches Doc is just doomed. :< Getting a grab on a good peach is nigh impossible, and they know they can trade hits and win. Its lame. At this point I'd rather play against a Marth.

 

[Bullet Bill]

lol I know. I was watching and I was like "wtf??"

Did you even read my post

 

[RaynEX]

I think he was talking about my bad playing.

He seems to have caught onto his habit of not caping turnips, he talks about how dumb he was in that match alot irl. lol.

 

[Bullet Bill]

I think against the best Peaches Doc is just doomed. :< Getting a grab on a good peach is nigh impossible, and they know they can trade hits and win. Its lame. At this point I'd rather play against a Marth.

Not really IMO.

 

[Gea]

Not really IMO.

What do you do against Peach, honestly? Pills don't do anything if the peach knows what is up, she can edgeguard you at any % and it means death, your only game (close) is destroyed by hers. The best you have is bair/fair/ and dair, but even then well timed she can trade hits.

I really don't see it. The more I play it, the more I see it is against me.

 

[unknown522]

yea. Peach is gay. Now I have falcon as a backup against her

 

[Bullet Bill]

What do you do against Peach, honestly? Pills don't do anything if the peach knows what is up, she can edgeguard you at any % and it means death, your only game (close) is destroyed by hers. The best you have is bair/fair/ and dair, but even then well timed she can trade hits.

I really don't see it. The more I play it, the more I see it is against me.

if you recover safely then Peach isn't better or worse than eny other charcters edgeguards. turnips agains't doc don't work. you can easily screw peach's approach with pills. Fair is a perfect counter to the dsmash. you can combo a peach easily. All of these things are in Doc's favour against peach.

 

[Bullet Bill]

yea. Peach is gay. Now I have falcon as a backup against her

Doc vs peach is not that hard!

 

[Gea]

Doc vs peach is not that hard!

Uhmm... Yeah, its not easy to combo a peach. She's floaty and nair eats through everything you have. She can manuver better and pills only slow down Peaches not used to it, otherwise they can FC aerials right on through.

Also good peaches don't spam dsmash :<

 

[unknown522]

Doc vs peach is not that hard!

yea she is

 

[unknown522]

More vids added

 

[Dogysamich]

Doc vs peach is not that hard!

peach is already hard.

and then ****ing xif enrolled into GA Tech.

Now i have to ****ing see a **** pillaring peach at every tourney i go to.

The **** if peach aint hard. >.>

_______________

but to actually give advice.

I only watched the newest videos, Fox and Marth.

Ya know, caping phantasm isnt exactly the best idea ever. Sure it's a guarenteed KO when you hit it; but how often do you (or rather, did you) hit it?

It's better to just f.tilt (or u.tilt if they try to go high).

And as long as you're playing fox on platforms; dont stay on platforms or you're gunna get u.aired all day. >.>

(At the end, i was drinkin some pepsi and i spit it out cause you got blasted by that JC u.smash. It wasnt your fault; it happens; it was just outta left field)

OTAH!

___

As for marth.

[marthrant]
I have this concept (one of dogy's dumb concepts) about fighting marth. Now, this sounds dumb when you read it, but go through the whole thing; and then stop and think about it; it makes sense.

Fighting against marth is like 2 boxers fighting, you being the shorter guy with the small reach; marth being the tall guy with a long reach (lets say a good half a foot, a LONG reach advantage).

Now, in theory, if both of you guys are exactly the same, he's going to win because there is a range where he can wail on you, and you cant do anything about it.

_

That's basically a long narritive saying marth has retardedly big spacing; but that's what happens. Marth's setups can be odd because they use alot of space, and it looks like he's too far to punish you.

i.e. - when you were shielding, and marth walked away. As soon as he out of your range, he f.smashed. Now, it might be more accurate to say when he got into his tipper range; or it might be more accurate to say when you dropped your shield (it looked like you mighta got shieldstabbed, so i dont think the latter was the caes), but regardless, he was going to swing whether you dropped your shield or not.

Why? because you couldnt do anything about it unless you sidestepped; you would be too far away.

That's the hard part about fighting marth, and that's what i tell people is the thing to watch for.

Sure marth has his huge *** disjointed hitbox. All that really means is you should stand farther back than you do any most other characters.
[/marthrant]
___

Anywho, long story short. Whenever you were in marth's range (his tipper range), you werent really active, and that's how you got caught in some combos. You really have to avoid that. >.>

That's all i can say about that matchup; you made good choices and had things going your way; ya just got caught more than he did.

******

Finally, i have a "technical" question for you.

These matches were from a tourney, right?

If so

1) Did you know your opponent's character(s) before the match?
2) What did you ban?
3) (if you knew 1), why didnt you ban yoshi's story vs a fox/marth. >.>

 

[unknown522]

^ thx for the advice.

I knew that he played fox. Not marth tho.

I banned battlefield because I always get gayed by the stage somehow.

I also play fox, falco, falcon, but I didn't wanna fight marth with any of them

 

[unknown522]

*bumped for comments*

 

[sk8tinGam0r]

i didnt get to watch any of the vid's(school) but i get the most luck against marth when he is in the air, i just wd backwards with a f-smash or f-tilt. mind game with pills is great. punish them while they try to dodge the pills. (be careful cause they could be baiting u). i never really played any good peaches but im curious if u jab to bait the d-smash, sheild it then wd to grab? is there enough time to get that or no?

 

[RaynEX]

^ it's not enough time to grab, also eventually one of the hits from the d-smash will most likely cut through the shield and hit you (maybe not if your lucky but it will still be too much shield stun and nearly break your shield). If you jab, then the peach will CC and d-smash

 

[Bullet Bill]

you can actually dsmash faster than the peach dsmash if you jab to dsmash well enough.

Here's my advice vs peach

Cape every tunrip, it's better than catching them or sheilding them or dodging them. peach will be float cancelling a lot so you ought to look for opportunities to uair in between. You can also fair sometimes as it has enough range to be relatively safe providing you space it well. As far as the dsmash is concerned (Peach's) you need to avoid it as best you can. You should of course try to punish it if you can, sheild- WD out of sheild dsmash or jab can work, but if you can't then don't bother. Better safe than sorry. pills won't work all of the time. You can spam them a little but Peach will try and float over them all to get around them. It's vs peach that you really need to use the pills well. Full jump pills, for instance, can interrupt a float cancel beautifully. Obviously it is very hard if at all possible to cheap kill a peach but don't forget, you have the all conquering bair. If you manage to connect a sneaky bair when peach is floating above the ledge she will be left with only the parasol which can be baired easily as well. Combos should be very short because of the cc dsmash. things like nair to jab to dsmash will work well. You should always dthrow a peach (unless at v high % = bthrow) as it combos very well. This is just a reminder to everyone I think but Dthrow to fair is a great finisher. Use it.

hope that helped somebody

 

[Bullet Bill]

^ it's not enough time to grab, also eventually one of the hits from the d-smash will most likely cut through the shield and hit you (maybe not if your lucky but it will still be too much shield stun and nearly break your shield). If you jab, then the peach will CC and d-smash

hmmmm. I don't think theres enough time to grab. jab to grab is a maybe for the reason RaynEX said. Though I think if you're quick enough you can just WD dsmash. but anyway, if you bait a dsmash succesfully they should be faired not sheilded

 

[unknown522]

ignore this post