Help Pierce become the next Mario god

[Pierce7d]

Alright, so it's official, my Mario is stupidly sick. As I've promised to you all, I'm going to be representing Mario in the next two tourneys I go to (not counting SNES).

However, if I'm really going to take Mario this seriously, I need to become even more knowledgeable than I already am. My Mario is ill, but it needs to be stupidly good if you want me to place high with Mario and represent.

So, I have some questions, and I also highly encourage any random tips about Mario: little things that you may not think are that important, but not widely known. Anyway, here comes the inquiry:

What are common ways of dealing with Tornado? If I have a good read, or good reaction time, I'll FLUDD it into the air, and punish it, or I'll cape it if I can. Otherwise I'll shield and UpB OOS. What else can you do?

How do you edgeguard/gimp Snake with Mario?

What are some tips regarding fighting King D3?

Is attempting to cape ZSS' DownB effective?

What are some bad match-ups I have to watch out for?

As it stands now, I consistently beat mid-level MKs with Mario, and there are no Snakes in my region.

 

[:mad:]

What are common ways of dealing with Tornado? If I have a good read, or good reaction time, I'll FLUDD it into the air, and punish it, or I'll cape it if I can. Otherwise I'll shield and UpB OOS. What else can you do?

How do you edgeguard/gimp Snake with Mario?

What are some tips regarding fighting King D3?

Is attempting to cape ZSS' DownB effective?

What are some bad match-ups I have to watch out for?

As it stands now, I consistently beat mid-level MKs with Mario, and there are no Snakes in my region.

I recall Monk posting a list of moves that beat Tornado, I'll dig it up later. Glad to hear you're so dedicated, though.

Snake can't be caped. Don't even bother, he'll just get his cypher back. Don't let him recover as high as he'd like. If he does, jump toward him, and predict an airdodge. If you can grab him out of his cypher on the ledge, FLUDD and he'll miss the C4. Bair and Fair are your best options for edgeguarding. Just beat him down every time he tries to recover. FLUDD and cape aren't very useful here.

Fighting Dedede? None from me. Florida's a Dedede/Snakefest, but I still have trouble with D3.

You'd be better off Nairing, in my opinion.

Marth and Game and Watch are bad ones. Dedede and MK are arguably worse. Mario does fairly well vs. the rest of high tier, nothing else is lower than 60:40.

Tornado gets stopped by...

Dair at the hands(Stupid hard)
Up-B
Usmash from below
any move from the tippy top

 

[Pierce7d]

So Usmash DOES go through Nado. That's an extremely useful tool, especially for getting a kill, and since I can dash away and Usmash.

Elaborate on Dair. I heard a rumor of this. Do I need to hit the Tornado with only the final part of Dair (I'm very good at spacing this move.)

I know Snake can't be caped. I was hoping the gimp master would have some tricks to gimp this one, but it seems it's all down to standard edgeguarding. I'll have to practice. FLUDD to miss the C4 is a good read though. Thanks. How plausible is trying to FLUDD a Snake under the stage by jumping off and using FLUDD if he's recovering low?

Fortunately, I'm exceedingly good at fighting Marth and G&W with Mario, and seeing as I can't take out myself, and there are no top G&Ws here, I'll be fine there. D3 will be a hassle, but if a player doesn't main D3, I'll win.

Interestingly enough, there are a few Sonics in Jersey. I kinda know the match-up, but it's still sketchy. What do I do here?

 

[Air-Mario]

So Usmash DOES go through Nado. That's an extremely useful tool, especially for getting a kill, and since I can dash away and Usmash.

Elaborate on Dair. I heard a rumor of this. Do I need to hit the Tornado with only the final part of Dair (I'm very good at spacing this move.)

I know Snake can't be caped. I was hoping the gimp master would have some tricks to gimp this one, but it seems it's all down to standard edgeguarding. I'll have to practice. FLUDD to miss the C4 is a good read though. Thanks. How plausible is trying to FLUDD a Snake under the stage by jumping off and using FLUDD if he's recovering low?

Fortunately, I'm exceedingly good at fighting Marth and G&W with Mario, and seeing as I can't take out myself, and there are no top G&Ws here, I'll be fine there. D3 will be a hassle, but if a player doesn't main D3, I'll win.

Interestingly enough, there are a few Sonics in Jersey. I kinda know the match-up, but it's still sketchy. What do I do here?

Hmm lets see...Sonic..

Abuse fireballs
Dont get predictable (duh)
Stay on alert because a good sonic ALWAYS does something different.
Keep a good DI going since he has weak moves.
Just keep your spacing in general.
Cape is useless offstage because it gives him another spring jump.
He can gimp mario quite nicely too.
Sonics B-air is a ***** so watch out for that one offstage.
Sonic isnt so hard to fight really, just abuse the fireballs and pay attention to his movements then act accordingly.

 

[:mad:]

So Usmash DOES go through Nado. That's an extremely useful tool, especially for getting a kill, and since I can dash away and Usmash.

Elaborate on Dair. I heard a rumor of this. Do I need to hit the Tornado with only the final part of Dair (I'm very good at spacing this move.)

I know Snake can't be caped. I was hoping the gimp master would have some tricks to gimp this one, but it seems it's all down to standard edgeguarding. I'll have to practice. FLUDD to miss the C4 is a good read though. Thanks. How plausible is trying to FLUDD a Snake under the stage by jumping off and using FLUDD if he's recovering low?

Fortunately, I'm exceedingly good at fighting Marth and G&W with Mario, and seeing as I can't take out myself, and there are no top G&Ws here, I'll be fine there. D3 will be a hassle, but if a player doesn't main D3, I'll win.

Interestingly enough, there are a few Sonics in Jersey. I kinda know the match-up, but it's still sketchy. What do I do here?

According to Monk, the last hit of Dair (at the very top, Mario's fists) can break the Tornado. So our 'Nado beats his.

iirc, FLUDD does nothing if the Snake cyphers. It doesn't sound very effective. Try Bairing him under the stage instead.

Good stuff, glad you're getting matchup experience against the harder characters.

I've had so much trouble vs. Sonic. The only way you'll win is with matchup experience against GOOD ones. They have quite a few tricks you wouldn't expect, they're ungimpable.

Do whatever it takes to play some friendlies against someone like Wes.

 

[Kanzaki]

Snake's stupid easy to land the spike on. He's the only character I attempt the spike on. Just spike him once, he'll try to cypher again, but it won't go all the way(if it does.. spike again), so then he'll try to C4 recover, right when you hear him pull out the C4, just fludd over him(doesn't even have to be touching him), and then when he gets knocked back by the C4, the fludd will stop him and kill him :] Fludd spike ftw.

Some Snakes if you cape, they won't bother coming back... cause they dunno they got their cypher back... but if they do know, the cape will probably help their recovery more than hurt it =/

Who ever says Martha was a bad match up for Mario, fails at the match up =[

My worst match ups are Game and Watches and Metaknights that knows how to play, not the ones that thinks Metaknight = instant win.. bout it... I struggle against Lucario, ZSS, dittos, and certain Snakes >.>

Oh yeah, if you fludd the tornado, it'll send them up... if you're near the edge, a trick I like to do to low level MK's is fludd them up, and for some reason, they like to mash b to make themselves go higher.. I guess they think it looks cool? But while they're doing that, I'm recharging my fludd.. and during their free falling state, I just fludd them off the stage... I've done this soo many times to people who thinks picking MK = Instant win.

 

[Famous]

Nair is your best toll against Sonic...Lol, they run into a brick wall...

 

[ThatGuy]

What are common ways of dealing with Tornado? If I have a good read, or good reaction time, I'll FLUDD it into the air, and punish it, or I'll cape it if I can. Otherwise I'll shield and UpB OOS. What else can you do?

How do you edgeguard/gimp Snake with Mario?

What are some tips regarding fighting King D3?

Is attempting to cape ZSS' DownB effective?

What are some bad match-ups I have to watch out for?

As it stands now, I consistently beat mid-level MKs with Mario, and there are no Snakes in my region.

To break nado, Usmash has been the most reliable method for me, but keep in mind it works best when you are facing the tornado. There is seriously no way this move loses to Tornado. I suggest implementing retreating hyphen smashes if they try to catch you out of position. I use Nair to break it when coming down from the air. SH Fireball when close will also break it, but it's fairly risky and difficult to pull off consistently.

Edgeguarding Snake in general is annoying, he flies too high and gets a free passage back to the middle of the stage. All I can really suggest to you is to out-think his falling game and punish him when he comes down (try not to eat the inevitable retaliation when he lands if you miss!). If for some reason he's recovering lower, I strongly suggest you go for the spike, as he can't do much about it besides Suicide KO you, or C4 jump, in which you return to the stage if he's low for further edgeguarding, or caperape/footstool him if it'll send him high. FLUDD is a very reliable option for dealing with his C4 recovery as well; you can aim to push him too far from his explosive, or you can FLUDD in his flight path when he does explode to halt him in place and fall as if he was footstooled. If your FLUDD is fully charged you probably won't have to go offstage for this.

D3 is pretty simple. He's a big heavy target, so beat the crap out of him any way you wish once you get inside his range. Getting inside his range is the hard part, due to his grab range and 50 bairs. It's really not that tough a matchup, just don't play stupid. Watch me vs Doc for examples on what not to do.

Caping ZSS DB depends on the ZSS itself, my suggestion is to not do it if they are spike-happy as you'll almost always get hit. Standard edge-game alone should suffice.

The bad matchups you need to watch out for are the matchups you personally have difficulty with! It doesn't matter what the matchup guide says, or what we say; you should know exactly what you're capable of and what weaknesses you need to pay attention to.

Cheers!

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Play like a Xero, Pierce.

But yeah, listen to these guys. They ain't bad for non-Xeros. =D

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

What are common ways of dealing with Tornado? If I have a good read, or good reaction time, I'll FLUDD it into the air, and punish it, or I'll cape it if I can. Otherwise I'll shield and UpB OOS. What else can you do?

Go snake...that's the best option....FLUUD Probably won't do too much it is slightly effective though....Upsmash from the bottom hits through....

How do you edgeguard/gimp Snake with Mario?

If snake is recovering low chase him down and Fair....if he is C4 jumping Fludd him

What are some tips regarding fighting King D3?

Don't get grabbed....that's about it

Is attempting to cape ZSS' DownB effective?

Not really...and if you **** up you're pretty much getting rocked

What are some bad match-ups I have to watch out for?

As it stands now, I consistently beat mid-level MKs with Mario, and there are no Snakes in my region.

MK, DDD, Snake...everything else is pretty much even


Edit: as for Dair...it's THE RISKIEST MOVE to break the tornado simply because if you **** up...you're just eating the tornado...you have to hit with your hands and if he's just plowing through you with the tornado it probably won't work...so in conclusion...it CAN go through...chance of it happening are like....1 and 20

 

[Matador]

What are common ways of dealing with Tornado? If I have a good read, or good reaction time, I'll FLUDD it into the air, and punish it, or I'll cape it if I can. Otherwise I'll shield and UpB OOS. What else can you do?

I personally Usmash through the bottom. If that doesn't work, I'll just do the regular shield-and-punish routine.

upB OOS hasn't given me much luck in the past. I'll either NOT reach MK's hurtbox before the invincibility ends or I'll actually hit the MK out of nado and they SDI out before the last hit and shutteloop.

How do you edgeguard/gimp Snake with Mario?

Fair is your primary tool here, but you WILL need to get creative with Mario's offstage options. For example, I often cape to kill his momentum. Remember that Snake's recovery is horrid if he doesn't jump -> immediate upB and is at the mercy of momentum. Even if you cape him and he gets another upB, it doesn't automatically mean that his position has improved.

As long as you don't let him get above you, he's fair game. lolpun

What are some tips regarding fighting King D3?

Learn to mash. It's an invaluable tool against an infinite-using D3. Also master use of the cape-jump stutterstep Fsmash mindgame. If you watch Boss' Mario vs Ally (I think the 2nd match) he uses it to KO him. This works well against D3 or Bowser because they're generally grab-happy...and it works extremely well to bait grabs.

I don't save my Usmash for KOs here; no point. If he DIs correctly, he lives WAAY too long from it. It IS a great tool for going up against D3's Bair and generally keeping him above you, so it's better used at lower percentages imo. Fireball/pivot cape to space, and don't count out grabbing because of the enormous difference in grab range...use it to stay inside (Dthrow). Dair for shield pressure to keep from being grabbed, and either land behind his shield or DJ -> Uair from the low ending lag.

When recovering, Bair > our upB...so time your invincibility frames to beat his bair and recover safely. While HE's recovering, I don't recommend challenging his aerials or going out too far and risk being inhaled. Instead, Fludd/Fireball from afar and deplete his jumps; that way you'll be in position to cape his upB when he needs it.

Is attempting to cape ZSS' DownB effective?

Snakeee once said that Mario's one of the only characters that can actually gimp ZSS for this reason. Spaced properly, cape beats the spike from downB and greatly reduces her recovery ability. If you land this, go for the ledgehog. If her DJ doesn't get her back onstage, and your invincibility holds out on the ledge, you've successfully gimped ZSS.

What are some bad match-ups I have to watch out for?

You've pretty much covered all of Mario's bad matchups. MK, G&W, Marth, Snake, and D3.

Keep an eye out for TL and Kirby. Both of them beat Mario in priority pretty handily, but are susceptible to Mario's gimp game. Abuse it.

Wario's also incredibly annoying. Bair is your best friend here. Your ultimate spacing tool for this matchup.

So Usmash DOES go through Nado. That's an extremely useful tool, especially for getting a kill, and since I can dash away and Usmash.

Yeah, I usually have it ready when they're on the ledge since it's their "safety" ledge option.

Elaborate on Dair. I heard a rumor of this. Do I need to hit the Tornado with only the final part of Dair (I'm very good at spacing this move.)

That's right, the last hit cancels nado.

Interestingly enough, there are a few Sonics in Jersey. I kinda know the match-up, but it's still sketchy. What do I do here?

I actually have a great deal of experience here. Nair, Ftilt and fireballs are great to deal with his spindash approach.

Usmash also hits through his spindash, so keep it fresh for KOs; it'll really hinder his options. And PLEASE don't fall for their Fsmash mindgames. If you're in KO range and they're running away from you, don't chase them without a fireball in front of you. Their stutter step range is about as great as ours.

Don't challenge his bair brickwall at KO percentages either. Instead, retreat and fireball. If you're feeling gutsy, powershield and punish. As long as you don't try to run in after the "lag" and punish the whiffed Bair, you'll be safe from it.

 

[DJayS]

How do you edgeguard/gimp Snake with Mario?

not sure if ne1's mentioned this yet but at high %'s you can always try and stage spike him whenver he's below the stage
and at low %'s you can bair Snake under stages to trap him
like on FD you can bair him under the ledges to trap him thus leading to his inevitable DOOM XD

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

This is pretty helpful for me, I'm looking to use a little more Mario. Straked convinced me

Good luck Pierce.

 

[hippiedude92]

I'm going to cry when my babies are born when I see Pierce's Mario in action.

Pierce come and drop by NY sometime, get out of that silly MK infested state and relax in NY for abit. I'm pretty sure myself and Kirinblaze will show some Mario gimmicks too though I'm pretty sure since your a very knowledge player you probably won't even need it XD. Either way def wanna meet you and make you give my Marth tips lol.

 

[JUDGE]

What are some tips regarding fighting King D3?

space d3 all the time he will try to shieldgrab you
abuse the fireballs
use the bair and try to hit always with the peak and immediatly retreat so he can not shieldgrab you
and always remember: play like xero^^

 

[Veggi]

No one ever talks about this, but FLUDD'ing people away from you when they try edgeguard Mario is extremely useful.

 

[Matador]

No one ever talks about this, but FLUDD'ing people away from you when they try edgeguard Mario is extremely useful.

You and I are like...the only Marios I know of that do this.

It's situational though...you need to have your DJ in most cases, and characters like DK tend to shrug it off, lol.

 

[BoTastic!]

What are common ways of dealing with Tornado? If I have a good read, or good reaction time, I'll FLUDD it into the air, and punish it, or I'll cape it if I can. Otherwise I'll shield and UpB OOS. What else can you do?

Rule number one. You're better off just using marth against MK. =/ Mario has no hope against MK.

How do you edgeguard/gimp Snake with Mario?

Fair, Fair, Fair. Fair knocks him dead off his cypher. and when he gets it back Fair him again. The cypher will hit you and knock you back toward the stage. whenever Snake is midlevel with the stage, don't hesitate to Fair him.

What are some tips regarding fighting King D3?

The b Button. lawl. You shouldn't be in DDD's face at all. Fireballs and space as well as you can against DDD. Reverse full jumped double Fireballs combine with Bair will irritate them. When they are above be careful but aggressive. Although, you probably won't be beating skilled DDD's with Mario.

Is attempting to cape ZSS' DownB effective?

Yes. she will be gimped. But always fludd her first, force her to use her jumps then cape.

What are some bad match-ups I have to watch out for?

From Hardest to easiest, MK, DDD, Snake ,G&W. That's it. Mario is fine against everyone else. And yes, even wario. Bair is Mario's bread and butter in that match up.

So yea thats my 2 cents.

 

[Pierce7d]

Bo, I disagree. I've been beating 90% of the MKs I fight with my Mario. I've beaten all the active D3's in my region with Mario as well, when we played with no infinities.

Thank you everyone. These tips are really useful. Nair vs. Sonic I'm glad you told me as I wasn't using it before, and against Snake, just focus on normal moves instead of special moves. I'm good against Wario as well.

I'm going to try my best for all of you!

 

[BoTastic!]

Bo, I disagree. I've been beating 90% of the MKs I fight with my Mario. I've beaten all the active D3's in my region with Mario as well, when we played with no infinities.

If this is true then I should be the one getting the advice, haha. Good MKs and DDDs with Mario experience will always win. But w/e, you probably just know the match up better than I do.

Thank you everyone. These tips are really useful. Nair vs. Sonic I'm glad you told me as I wasn't using it before, and against Snake, just focus on normal moves instead of special moves. I'm good against Wario as well.

I'm going to try my best for all of you!

Make us proud! We need more marios representing.

 

[Kanzaki]

Bo, I disagree. I've been beating 90% of the MKs I fight with my Mario. I've beaten all the active D3's in my region with Mario as well, when we played with no infinities.

Thank you everyone. These tips are really useful. Nair vs. Sonic I'm glad you told me as I wasn't using it before, and against Snake, just focus on normal moves instead of special moves. I'm good against Wario as well.

I'm going to try my best for all of you!

Against Snakes, if I'm going head on, I have to try really hard to beat him.. I find it easier to out spam him and then land a smash when he's at like 150% :D

If the infinite is ban, I don't think Mario's should struggled vs. D3.

 

[KirinBlaze]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7054096#post7054096

That's my take on the Snake Match-Up.

What I didn't mention in that post when I talked about Fair is that you can use it as a mindgame against him as well. Too often if a Snake player is close enough to the ledge where they can airdodge from the cipher and grab a ledge, they will, especially with a potential spike move coming. Mario's won't KO him all the time but it will definitely but him in a bad position. You can use this tendency they have against them. For the first two or three times just try going for the spike and seeing what they do, condition them into a certain method of recovery against it. If they continue to airdodge through you the first few times you can SH out like you're going to do it, do nothing and just grab the ledge and get a free KO.

Hope that helps you, make us proud, Pierce. :D

 

[Matador]

Don't let Diddy intimidate you either. Mario wrecks his recovery pretty bad...I daresay better than MK.

If he tries to upB to the ledge from below while you're on the ledge or next to it, don't be afraid to ledgedrop -> nair and interrupt it. Fludd his sideB, cape, the whole nine yards.

Onstage, cape is amazing, even when he's trying to glidetoss OOS. SHDair, Uair, Bair and Nair to pick up thrown/grounded nanners, and generally wreck his simplistic playstyle. Mario literally has an answer for everything he does, AND he kills earlier.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Pierce, I almost beat ADHD in tournament as Mario. 2-1 Set came down to the last hit.
If I can do that I'm sure you'll have no problems at all with Diddy.

 

[SkylerOcon]

You and I are like...the only Marios I know of that do this.

It's situational though...you need to have your DJ in most cases, and characters like DK tend to shrug it off, lol.

I do this all the time too. Hella useful. I don't know why Mario's as a whole don't use the FLUDD as protection more often - I usually only see it as a gimping tool (and the occasional FIHL).

 

[KirinBlaze]

I've started using it more after watching Matador use it. It's really helpful.

 

[Pierce7d]

Don't let Diddy intimidate you either. Mario wrecks his recovery pretty bad...I daresay better than MK.

If he tries to upB to the ledge from below while you're on the ledge or next to it, don't be afraid to ledgedrop -> nair and interrupt it. Fludd his sideB, cape, the whole nine yards.

Onstage, cape is amazing, even when he's trying to glidetoss OOS. SHDair, Uair, Bair and Nair to pick up thrown/grounded nanners, and generally wreck his simplistic playstyle. Mario literally has an answer for everything he does, AND he kills earlier.

Oh don't worry, I'm very good at this match-up. I can't wait to wreck ADHD with Mario! MUAHAHAHAHA!!

And some of these tips are really, extremely useful. FLUDDing MK to help me recover sounds amazing. Learning how to use Usmash vs. Tornado, and fixing a spot-dodge habit = amazing. I've been working on new combos (frame traps, etc) with him too. My first tourney with Mario will be next Saturday hopefully.

 

[Matt07]

Good luck Pierce7d, you'll do just fine next Saturday .

 

[Famous]

I'll tell you secrets if you drop Marth and main Mario....

 

[Matador]

Oh don't worry, I'm very good at this match-up. I can't wait to wreck ADHD with Mario! MUAHAHAHAHA!!

lol, that'd be amazing to see/hear about whilst having a cold one with the fellas.

I'll tell you secrets if you drop Marth and main Mario....

Lmfao!

An ultimatum

edit: 2:35 is an example of what we're talking about. I got superwrecked cuz Korn's awesome, but it's a nice little clip.

 

[hippiedude92]

Hay lookie here. Anyways this sorta my latest Mario (kinda bull since it feels like I'm showing off because I'm winning lol.). And most GOOD snakes don't get gimped like this, but it's just a silly example of things, perhaps it may spring a few ideas to your head y'know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt__PxyDqic

a TERRIBLE MARIO vs a RLY TERRIBLE SNAKE <3.

 

[Mario_ 101]

I'm a bit late to add this in but... fireballs will actually stop the tornado if they hit around the time of startup when the tornado's priority is low.

 

[hippiedude92]

Pierce come to NY/LI tourney this saturday pls? :/

 

[who8theburrito]

Yeah fair the hell out of snake and space dedede >.>

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pierce...on the one hand, I want to give you a big pat on the back for using Mario, and the other side of me wants to stab you like a maniac to cut off my competition for becoming the best Mario user.

Oh wait, you're on the EC. Then that's fine with me. Just wait until I get back at Mikehaze and Bardul...

Oh and besides that, nag me on AIM. I call myself the most knowledgeable of the Mario mains. You don't have to believe me, but still, I'm a nice guy. =)

What are common ways of dealing with Tornado? If I have a good read, or good reaction time, I'll FLUDD it into the air, and punish it, or I'll cape it if I can. Otherwise I'll shield and UpB OOS. What else can you do?

How do you edgeguard/gimp Snake with Mario?

What are some tips regarding fighting King D3?

Is attempting to cape ZSS' DownB effective?

What are some bad match-ups I have to watch out for?

As it stands now, I consistently beat mid-level MKs with Mario, and there are no Snakes in my region.

Fast tips:

Fireball camping the top of the Tornado is the safest way to deal with it. F-smash CAN beat it, but is incredibly awkward to time. And of course, Up-smash, Cape, Up-B, and FLUDD are quite useful too. A good MK from what I've seen rarely Tornados except to interrupt your aerial plans. This is why I think spamming Fireballs from a high angle is overall the safest way to handle yourself.

You don't edgeguard Snake offstage unless he comes from below, OR if you know a doublejumped F-air will get him. D-air is a fairly good air dodge baiter (either you can hit him with it, or fastfall as it ends and U-air him out of his air dodge or something like that).

D3 isn't nearly as bad for Mario as the infinite would suggest. You can mash out of it since he requires grab attacks to make it a true infinite. In general you will be D-airing behind him a lot, fireball camping, and U-tilt/U-air juggling. King DDD is also the PERFECT victim for F-smash baiting. He's always trying to grab, so baiting his grab, and punishing with F-smash (the stutter step has more range than his grab) is amazingly useful in that matchup. F-smash can also be used to beat inhale.

Caping ZSS's Down-B is not a good idea. It's very difficult to predict correctly, and you risk getting Forward-Bed or just flat out messing up the timing at getting owned. One thing I have not researched enough is crouching vs her. I know you can duck under Falco's lasers, and that some short characters (Kirby) like ducking against her a lot.

The hardest matchup for Mario is G&W. A good G&W...doesn't get F-smash baited (since his disjoints are very difficult to properly outspace and have some of the lowest ending lag in existence) and will edgeguard you really hard. This matchup is the Melee Mario vs Marth matchup all over again. It's a ridiculous pain to get inside him and he can kill you and gimp you very effectively. You can do some faster stuff out of shield to get him like Up-B or B-air and other stuff, and you have juggling combos, so you could win this matchup...

I also think a good Snake is a nightmare and very difficult to win. Maybe it's just because I haven't learned how to play against SuSa though lol. Otherwise I really think Mario is a bit underrated and could make it around where Sheik is currently placed (Sheik btw, is VERY underrated). He probably has some technically unwinnable matchups, but I rarely ever feel that I'm completely out of options when using him. You have to think fast when using him however since aerial trixies and speedy mindgames are pretty key to winning with Mario.

 

[Pierce7d]

Alright, so at this point, I've learned almost every match-up, including Snake and D3. I LOVE fsmash baiting grabs by the way, and will be hitting up all of you on AIM when I can. Right now, what I REALLY ABSOLUTELY NEED is frame data. I need specifically to know Mario's Smash Attacks, Utilt, Jab, Grab, Spot dodge, and Cape. UpB, ftilt, and Fireball would also be nice.

Also, I'm in on your secret guys. Mario is definitely mid tier, lmao. People are so ignorant.

 

[bobson]

Right now, what I REALLY ABSOLUTELY NEED is frame data. I need specifically to know Mario's Smash Attacks, Utilt, Jab, Grab, Spot dodge, and Cape. UpB, ftilt, and Fireball would also be nice.

Yooo-hooo.

 

[Mardyke]

I salute you, Pierce. This thread alone has me inspired.

Please, go out there and have a blast, Mario style.

 

[hippiedude92]

pierce you coming to LI/NY this saturday? T.T

 

[Famous]

Also, I'm in on your secret guys. Mario is definitely mid tier, lmao. People are so ignorant.

You'll be in on my secret when you start thinking he's top tier xD