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Hate on Falco? WHO CARES
- Thread starter JKJ
- Start date
Beat!
Smash Master
JKJ, I agree with some of the stuff you said, but Ganon's recovery is seriously absolutely free. Definitely worse than Falco's.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
What the hell are you talking about?
Having a friend might make you have experience, but since there are so few Yoshi mains that know how to play, let me know his name. From the way you talk about the MU, I don't think you play the MU properly(he might not either). Falco's recovery is SHORT not BAD, he has a ton of options, learn to use them well and he has a viable recovery. Since you have a move that comes out in 1/60 of a second and can kill Yoshi at 0%, I think Yoshi is pretty gimpable by Falco. All of Yoshis gimps usually require hard reads and timing. Falco has a better shield. Yoshi's shield lasts one frame longer, which makes it less than 1% longer, you obviously don't know your'e frame data.
OoS options > invulnerability to shield stabbing. Light shield isn't that useful, almost like a gimmick. Unless you hit it really hard, you can chase him down before he can release his shield again. So it is only useful if you F-smash or something dumb like that(why would you try to F-smash a shield? lol. . .) Difficulty in the neutral game is cured by being substantially better than the Falco player.
Unpredictably is only one aspect of that, also, eggs? Leffen quote: your'e better off using Ness' neutral B than Yoshi's eggs in the neutral game. I think that is an exaggeration, but still, eggs aren't for neutral game. Parrying a laser is the only reliable option to beat the laser, as anything else (shieldding dodging running) allows you a favorable position, as while I'm doing those bad options, you've already auto-cancelled your laser. It isn't the only option, but it is the only way of beating it.
Throwing out random B-airs and D-airs is scrublike. Using them intelligently to create walls and pressure isn't, but that isn't the tactic that I'm talking about. I'm talking about bad Falco players randomly using moves where they shouldn't and it works sometimes., and is just silly. (Every time you hit in a way that you didn't mean to, it is probably because you don't know how to handle the situation properly, and your character is carrying you.) Don't tell me how Yoshi's DJ works, I am more familiar with it than you are. I did not say your B-air/D-air always go through my recovery. Also, because you clearly don't know, my DJ breaks whenever a crouch breaks (not very high %s, in fact your F-smash breaks it at 40%+)
I know very well about Yoshi's D-tilt and when it can go through your recovery, but you should also know that it has a smaller window than your edgeguards, and is harder to use. You must also get hit once you're off the stage, and get hit at the lowest part of the tip of my tail, if not you can go over it(quite thin) or out-prioritize me. If it is not spaced perfectly, and you up-B at me, I need perfect timing to go through it, and if you trade with me, you can grab the ledge unless you DI out. Yoshi will not be able to reach the ledge in time. I guess you won't teach me anything.
"If you lose to a player, He/She played better than you." False. You obviously don't know what MUs are. . . The MUs you complained about are neutral, or 45-55. You don't know anything about this game. . . do you?
Lake was joking. You still don't know anything about this game.
"That Dtilt on the ledge is like a foolproof kill." only if you get hit by it. You're bad at this game.
"His recovery mixups don't really matter." are you serious?
You're the worst player, JKJ.
Having a friend might make you have experience, but since there are so few Yoshi mains that know how to play, let me know his name. From the way you talk about the MU, I don't think you play the MU properly(he might not either). Falco's recovery is SHORT not BAD, he has a ton of options, learn to use them well and he has a viable recovery. Since you have a move that comes out in 1/60 of a second and can kill Yoshi at 0%, I think Yoshi is pretty gimpable by Falco. All of Yoshis gimps usually require hard reads and timing. Falco has a better shield. Yoshi's shield lasts one frame longer, which makes it less than 1% longer, you obviously don't know your'e frame data.
OoS options > invulnerability to shield stabbing. Light shield isn't that useful, almost like a gimmick. Unless you hit it really hard, you can chase him down before he can release his shield again. So it is only useful if you F-smash or something dumb like that(why would you try to F-smash a shield? lol. . .) Difficulty in the neutral game is cured by being substantially better than the Falco player.
Unpredictably is only one aspect of that, also, eggs? Leffen quote: your'e better off using Ness' neutral B than Yoshi's eggs in the neutral game. I think that is an exaggeration, but still, eggs aren't for neutral game. Parrying a laser is the only reliable option to beat the laser, as anything else (shieldding dodging running) allows you a favorable position, as while I'm doing those bad options, you've already auto-cancelled your laser. It isn't the only option, but it is the only way of beating it.
Throwing out random B-airs and D-airs is scrublike. Using them intelligently to create walls and pressure isn't, but that isn't the tactic that I'm talking about. I'm talking about bad Falco players randomly using moves where they shouldn't and it works sometimes., and is just silly. (Every time you hit in a way that you didn't mean to, it is probably because you don't know how to handle the situation properly, and your character is carrying you.) Don't tell me how Yoshi's DJ works, I am more familiar with it than you are. I did not say your B-air/D-air always go through my recovery. Also, because you clearly don't know, my DJ breaks whenever a crouch breaks (not very high %s, in fact your F-smash breaks it at 40%+)
I know very well about Yoshi's D-tilt and when it can go through your recovery, but you should also know that it has a smaller window than your edgeguards, and is harder to use. You must also get hit once you're off the stage, and get hit at the lowest part of the tip of my tail, if not you can go over it(quite thin) or out-prioritize me. If it is not spaced perfectly, and you up-B at me, I need perfect timing to go through it, and if you trade with me, you can grab the ledge unless you DI out. Yoshi will not be able to reach the ledge in time. I guess you won't teach me anything.
"If you lose to a player, He/She played better than you." False. You obviously don't know what MUs are. . . The MUs you complained about are neutral, or 45-55. You don't know anything about this game. . . do you?
Lake was joking. You still don't know anything about this game.
"That Dtilt on the ledge is like a foolproof kill." only if you get hit by it. You're bad at this game.
"His recovery mixups don't really matter." are you serious?
You're the worst player, JKJ.
FrootLoop
Smash Lord
wooooooooow
this thread is hilarious
if someone beats you, then they were better at winning than you were.
this thread is hilarious
if someone beats you, then they were better at winning than you were.
Wake
Smash Master
That's pretty much how I look at it lol.
Beat!
Smash Master
Yeah, me too.
My point exactly.
Ok, I can concede that, all I was trying to say is that at least he has to be edgeguarded multiple times, whereas 1 edgeguard+ledgehog will almost always kill Falco.
I sense that immaturity is afoot.
My Yoshi main friend just goes by Steve. He's not incredible, nor am I. We go to locals and his Yoshi has fared pretty well, winning a few matches against falcos and foxes. We aren't anything special, but, seeing as I have never heard of you either, NEITHER ARE YOU. If V3ctorman was commenting on this MU and proving me wrong, I'd give it more validity. Don't put yourself on a pedestal, sir. You and I aren't that different.
In my opinion, a short recovery is bad. Falco's mixups are all well and good and can be utilized very well, but often, he is just too far away to recover, mixups or no mixups. And if you are getting shine gimped by a Falco at zero, you are being outplayed.
Yoshi's shield only lasts a little bit longer until it breaks, I know, but what I meant is that your shield blocks attacks significantly longer than Falco's. Your shield doesn't shrink, therefore making you impervious to shield stabbing, thereby allowing you to block attacks down to the last extra 1% of your shield. Normal shields become too small to effectively block far before that point.
Obviously OoS options are better, but work with what you have. You picked Yoshi, not me, all I am doing is arguing for your character's strengths. And sometimes a gimmick is just what you need to throw your opponent off.
Unpredictability is everything. When you choose a low-tier main, you have to develop an unpredictable style to win. Your character is inherently worse than those you will be facing. And don't get me started of Leffen, I don't care for him at all. He likes to overstate, complain, and insult others. Actually, I can see why you like him. He's just like you.
Actually, you did:
Did you just use Fsmash as a point of reference for when Yoshi's DJ breaks? That is as misleading a statistic as they come. If anyone is successfully using Fsmash to break your DJ, I am very, very sorry for you.
All I'm saying is that if you were really that good with Yoshi, you could hit the Dtilt every time. My friend Steve can, but he's too terrible for you to respect as a player, right?
I defer you to the above quote. "if someone beats you, then they were better at winning that you were."
Ah, I love the smell of fresh internet troll in the morning.
It's not up to me whether I get hit by it. It's up to you as to whether you hit me with it or not. I am at your mercy when I am recovering.
I amend my statement: "His recovery mixups don't really matter if you are a good enough player, or if he was hit too far away to recover anyways."
Hmm. I am reminded of a certain child from my pre-school. He used to insult others to make himself feel better too.
outofphase
Smash Apprentice
*****es just be mad cuz they werent smart enough to main falco.
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
I like fighting Falco with Yoshi. 
leffen
Smash Champion
lol please do not try to reason with purpletuce
its simply not worth it
its simply not worth it
I'm so glad you think so. Not that I lose to Yoshi, but I feel like a really good Yoshi could handle a Falco of similar skill pretty well by being unpredictable and gimping with Dtilt. Also, DJC Upair juggles ****.I like fighting Falco with Yoshi.
I'm so glad you replied, I didn't really think you would, seeing as it is in the Falco thread, but thank you. I was trying very hard to debate with Purpletuce, to no avail. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the MU.
Falco is only easily gimped if the falco is a noob.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Done with this thread, but don't take what I say out of context, Ex: your moves go through my moves in terms of priority, not kills. I'm not even sure if you believed that nonsense you're saying. Also, after reading what you said, it is apparent that you don't understand the concepts of mixups, tiers, priority, and position. I can only assume you and your friend Steve are casual players and I'm wasting my time talking to you. The reason I think Steve doesn't really count is because he probably has no idea how to play Yoshi. Since Yoshi information is so limited, he would be best off learning from the Yoshi boards, but I don't think I've seen him there. So his gameplay is probably based entirely off of Vman's combo video, which isn't a bad thing, but he will have to change that to play well. Also, you claim you always get hit by yoshi's D-tilt, but never get hit by Falco's F-smash? Teh latter barely takes longer to start up, but has a better hitbox. (10 frames vs 12 frames iirc)
If you are ever recovering, and you decide to limit yourself by only using your up-B, and chose to only either go high or low, your friend will have to guess. So even if you take away Falco's side B and up-B options other than high or low, your friend would have a 50-50 shot to hit you, and have to commit with his D-tilt to one of them. So, if your friend does really hit with D-tilt every time, he is 100% accurate with his reads, which means you probably do the same thing every time. That wouldn't surprise me since you don't think options matter, but trust me, you'll start playing better if you use different ways to recover.
You were trying hard to debate with me? About what? Also, good luck getting Vman to post about Falco vs. Yoshi, he still hasn't posted his thoughts. . . perhaps he likes the mystique. Bye.
If you are ever recovering, and you decide to limit yourself by only using your up-B, and chose to only either go high or low, your friend will have to guess. So even if you take away Falco's side B and up-B options other than high or low, your friend would have a 50-50 shot to hit you, and have to commit with his D-tilt to one of them. So, if your friend does really hit with D-tilt every time, he is 100% accurate with his reads, which means you probably do the same thing every time. That wouldn't surprise me since you don't think options matter, but trust me, you'll start playing better if you use different ways to recover.
You were trying hard to debate with me? About what? Also, good luck getting Vman to post about Falco vs. Yoshi, he still hasn't posted his thoughts. . . perhaps he likes the mystique. Bye.
Stevo
Smash Champion
every character is gay/lame/cheap/dumb except Falcon.
This has been true for like 10 years.
This has been true for like 10 years.
Wake
Smash Master
Falcon is too though. People just don't realize it.
FrootLoop
Smash Lord
Wake just ask any falcon main, they'll correct you
Wake
Smash Master
haha true true. My bad.
General Heinz
Smash Journeyman
there's a lot I could say about this, but really it doesn't matter after everything is said and done. you can let the hate bother you, or you can just accept that people will do it and find your own way of shrugging it off. makes playing falco a lot more fun. =)
Bones0
Smash Legend
Johns because of Falco get tiring, but at least we don't main Jiggs. Oh, man would I get pissed constantly. I'd probably end up being one of those people that plays lame with the sole intention of pissing off my opponents just because of all the dumb complaints I hear about her.