Half Life: Full Life Consequences Mafia - Game Over - Who Won?

[#HBC | Laundry]

Can we just make that DGames-wide? I can't see anyone altering it.

 

[Evil Eye]

That's the thing. Once again, this is the second time he has done this, and the last time was like a year ago. Werekill's an alright guy but it's very very obvious he can't be trusted with the extensive honor system and communication rules that go hand in hand with playing mafia games (and, again, most adventure games).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's sad I needed to add more people to my personal list.

Now it's,
Vinyl
Gheb
Werekill

 

[Evil Eye]

Why Gheb??!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Liar mafia.

 

[Axel]

Kuz this was really cool yo.

 

[ranmaru]

Motion thirded watevz for werekill.

About gheb. If he plays another game and doesnt do that again.. Maybe.

Rr what did vynil do

 

[Raziek]

Disco room games.

 

[Jim Morrison]

This was fun. To LOSE

Props to EE, I did not expect TWO indies. This is like my first game ever all over again, where I was masons with someone who happened to be scum and everyone was fooled and went NOOOOOOOO

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Why Vinyl?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Also to be fair I've technically broken communication rules in pretty much every game now. Like, after I'm dead in a game I'll go around Skype and ask people who they are, what they're thinking of doing, ect. ect.

Plus pretty much everyone (I'm looking at you, EE ) broke the no communication rule in PF 10 times over when EE was in LYLO with J and Circus.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vin is on there because he sat there and did nothing in two games, was forced replaced once because of this and lynched another time because it was better to policy lynch him.

Newbie game didn't fix this too much. :/

And to be fair Swords, people assume no reviver roles which is the case 99% of the time, so that's not as bad, if even, to what Werekill did.

Still I think making a dead QT is the best route to make a place that is ok to talk about the game, since the mod can monitor that at the very least.

 

[Evil Eye]

yeah that does not measure up even slightly to contacting people while a game is ongoing and blatantly trying to sway their opinions in a manipulative manner. Also in the first instance I mentioned, he was literally spelling out whom he felt was scum in the endgame of the game he had just died in. After posting suspicion on said player in the thread, then "editing" to say "oh I forgot I was dead" (but not removing the concrete stance he'd posted), he opted to send the even more leading and obvious PM.

Although this is not quite so horrendous as the first time, the first time shouldn't have happened, and the ulterior motive this time around is still quite visible.

 

[Evil Eye]

also I doubt I'd've talked about Pulp Fiction mafia if I didn't get barraged by people talking to me about it like literally every day

 

[Gova]

That probably wouldn't have happened if you didn't write a novella about it.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Also to be fair I've technically broken communication rules in pretty much every game now. Like, after I'm dead in a game I'll go around Skype and ask people who they are, what they're thinking of doing, ect. ect.

Plus pretty much everyone (I'm looking at you, EE ) broke the no communication rule in PF 10 times over when EE was in LYLO with J and Circus.

See I really give no ****s about this. If it's dead people talking to me about the game, that's not harming the game. Likewise, if dead people are talking to live people and remain pokerface the entire time, I don't care. It doesn't harm the game. Like, you mentioned Pulp Fiction. The only thing I asked EE was who he was killing out of curiosity. Once I got my answer, all I said was, "oh okay" and left it at that. I wasn't influencing his kill, I wasn't trying to steer him one way or another. I just wanted to know.

 

[Evil Eye]

Anyways, enough of that. Shoutouts!


marshy - You tried to stay alive as jailer and you pulled it off for quite a while, straddling the line where other people suspect you enough that you might live long enough to clear yourself via claim. Alas, once I started looking for the jailer because I knew I had to hit jailer or probably lose the game, I read you right. It was ****ing hard as **** though and that's only a testament to your skillz. Also, that kanty read was sexy.


Zonie - The issue I had with you was that you were a chatterbox in scenarios where nothing really needed to be put on the table or where a lynch was secured, and yet didn't pull your weight with what ended up being mislynches, like JTB on D2. There were other things as well, like asking me for a scumlist when you'd earlier posted that you know I generally hunt one scum at a time (and keep my cards to myself), or being asked to post a case on JTB and choosing not to until JTB and Gorf both say stuff. A lot of it does come down to luck of the draw, but again, go back over Gorf's case, account for the loose grammar, and you really will find a lot of truth in it. Anyway, this was definitely not the strongest play I've seen from you but you were a lot of fun to play with.


GLife - Needed to be more of a presence bro. If I really was town I dunno if I could have pulled out the Gorfscum read. There's nothing wrong with your playstyle but if you live to endgame and people don't know what your intentions are in a game this is gonna be a consistent problem. You are good at mafia. You are good as town. All it takes is engaging yourself, so do it and win some games with your muscles like I know you can. As always though, playin' wicho *** was fun on a bun


Wash - Didn't get to play much with you but it was fun as always brah. You kept a cool head about all situations, looked at everything on D1 but still kept the noose tight on Werekill. Dunno whom your cop targets were/would've been; Xonar on N4 was a good one though.


Soup - Really impressed by how quickly you read RR. I really don't think I could've gotten the bead on him before his role in the D2 ML. The moment Gorf suggested cop it really did line up so perfectly; vacant J/RR, Soup goes in hard D2-3, bam mafia. I even tried to kill you the night of the NK + soup abduction!


Jimbo - I forget your reads and what you wanted to do, haha. Despite that I got tons of new-ish town vibes from your play and you had your head on straight. You're ahead of the game there, of that I assure you. Play more and you'll be a top-drawer playa in no time, you already have the foundations for it.


JTB - Like GLife; engage more. You do at least make sure to keep up on stances and the like, which is nice, but it can be very hard to discern what direction you want to go in, or that there is a direction. You are smart, but your playstyle keeps you in the PoE pool every time. If you're okay with that then, hey, alright. You don't have transparency issues at least.


Ryker - One day we'll play a game where I can actually give you a shoutout. G'job catchin' onto Werekill and such. It is enjoyable when hunting scum to know that you'll have Ryker's vote if your **** is up to the sniff test with few questions asked. Also we really should try being the same alignment sometime or something.


Gorf - Combines got me tricked bro

In spite of my alignment I had tons of fun towning with you and dancing the tightrope. You really were a formidable force in this game, just look at your involvement in WK and RR and Kanty's lynches. No one can take that from you. I also had tons of fun legit scumhunting with you re: Kantrip.

Freeman Bros forever.


Kantplay - Disappointed. I'm happy that you stepped up the way you did but after the gusto you threw into FFT it seems you really Kanplay, and simply elected not to in this game. That janky as **** self-meta was one of the worse offenders. Please leave stuff like that on the cutting room floor and post actual content, as it's almost always so WIFOMy and unhelpful to post as town, and so grimy and vote-mongling as scum. Game could've been very very different if you'd played it with more [or any] interest.


Werekill - You're an alright guy, but please just do not play mafia or AGames that have strict communications rules. You make way too many decisions with blatant disregard for both logic and rules. The former is a bit grating to play with but can be trained out, the latter is seriously unacceptable. And your vitriolic diatribe about what mafia allegedly is was just wrong from start to finish. Please don't take any of this personally. I think my position is reasonable, and mafia/etc really don't relate to other stuff.


J - I can't help but notice that you didn't post on D1, which just so happened to be a bad situation for scum, and then replaced out on N1, when your situation was made worse. This almost ruined Kuzi's game. Both scum replacing out within one cycle? Seriously? I understand that you were busy and all but I also couldn't help but notice you being active in your other game(s). Games where, coincidentally enough, your position was not as dire. It's hard not to find that suspect, and grating when Werekill's awful D1 play meant I needed either a good scumbuddy performance or miracles, magic, and muscles to win. But, you replaced out. For the longest time I felt I had like a 10% chance of winning the game at best, pretty much from N1, and this didn't help any.


RR - I actually thought you did a pretty good job of engaging the thread actively and tossing off that hardnosed disregard you so often wield as town. I admit I sighed when I heard that you were replacing J, but you came in and brought the thunder, so hey. Your play here was much, much, much much much better than FFT!

 

[Evil Eye]

Kuz - I really think this was one of the better setups I've ever played. It was very inventive, with lots of little curveballs and twists to keep you guessing (as a good mafia game should) but also not obtuse or esoteric in its design. Things like losing all abductees but one or the bonus indy are neat possibilities. Although people will say that there's no hint of another indy, it bears mention that by informing the indy traitor of the scumteam you put them at the disadvantage of information; connections can now be deciphered and ascertained, rather than an indy survivor running blind and then winning atop town. There's also the fact that Mafia had an FBI Agent, as opposed to a stalker. This implies more incentive to have an indy investigator than just one bad guy to offer up before lapping up your town points. Particularly with a 2man scumteam. Plus neighbors draw inherent scrutiny, and I was claiming Gordon Goddamn Freeman. The guy who not only became a headcrab zombie but got combine science put on his face shortly thereafter.

The other design choices were undeniably solid. 2man scumteam with tailor and (presumably) not-mafia-investigating traitor check the cop hard, while the cop is still a resource when coupled with scumhunting. Jailer could also be a mafia roleblocker, and thus does not get cleared-by-claim unless they actually do something with their ability that earns it (or gambit as much as scum... once again, scumhunting is key). Voyeur was a very very informative role that also doesn't bust the game open other than in some tactical scenarios that would be hard to wrangle out.

And just, the flavor too. The right mix of misleading red herrings (Science, Zombie Goasts, the ****ing HUG TOWER, and Headcrab Officer as townies) and bang on stuff (Gordon's alignment). The very inspired, very very entertaining flips and day starts and everything. I laughed many times while playing this game, and most of that is on you. The flavor felt like a celebration and tribute of the flavor, and so it should. The role PMs were a riot. People could learn so so much about incorporating flavor into a game from this one.

Add in prompt, responsive modding, lots of votecounts, no unreasonable delays etc and you have one of my best experiences in many years of mafia at the sheer technical/modding level. And I've played some damn fine games.

All of the props for kooz

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yeah, major props to Kuz for hosting this and designing the set up. Thanks a bazillion.

 

[Jim Morrison]

+1 on the props to Kuz, the flavour was hella fun.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Oh kk didn't know circumstances were that bad. Nvm then, that probably is something worthy of a temp. blacklisting.

 

[Lore]

I don't honestly think that what I was saying was game breaking (it was talking about my play in general, from what I remember, without specific game details), but if you guys want to blacklist me, fine.

I also basically stress exploded from the game's absurdity/frantic pace and irl conditions, as said to a couple people. The ragequit? That was me just trying to get the hell out of there; I wasn't trying to help anybody. I later realized after the fact that it might would help, as shown in the scum QT, but it wasn't the reason for it.

I just get way too into games, and when bad things irl combine with an absurd part of the game (more on that later), it seems like I snap under the pressure. Obviously, mafia is just not the game for me, and I'm sorry it took me this long to realize it.

(Or maybe I can't handle being scum? Likely not; I get too involved no matter the role. But I digress.)

The absurd part was the push against me. Haha, I fully admit that when the pressure was put on I played absolutely horridly and was deserving of a lynch, but I hated the initial reasoning behind it. Thanks to my fbi role, I honestly thought Xonar might have been an indy trying to set up an easy lynch with an easy-to-apply lynch rule, and I didn't like that.

But yeah, I played like **** besides that.

(Phone is glitching, so this bit below will be continued in my next)
@EE: I agree on Mafia, to a point. I see no reason to blacklist since this is the first time in a year that this has happened, and they were entirely diffedent circumstances. Here, I snapped due to pressure irl and in game. In Bebop, I was new and had little grasp of what I was allowed to get away with.

 

[Lore]

Continued.

However, I think I've learned a lesson here to at least attempt to have a bit of control when stressed, and despite my decision to not play again, I would hate for everyone to still have me blacklisted if I change my mind, say, eight months from now. Get what I'm saying?

Also, I've played plenty of other games where this wasn't an issue, so it's not like I've done anything in every game.

On another note, why did you include AGames? I love those, and I would never ruin something like that. You've been in a game with me before, and I thought that it was clear that I was following the rules.

 

[Lore]

Few more notes:

LOL at my mafia diatribe. What an awful bit of writing. I was in pure "stupid whining mode"there and that's for sure. I still believe that mafia isn't for me, but not for those reasons, I think.

@Kuz: Nice setup, man. I enjoyed reading this game.

By the way, my pm to you explicitly laid out what I had said to EE and Ryker. Would you agree in a lerma blacklist, or would you agree with me in saying that at least a reduction to temp blacklist is ok? I don't think what I said was bad, really, but I do think now that it was against the rules, I suppose.

 

[Evil Eye]

You did the exact same ragequit **** in UTrick'd when you received pressure, too. Like literally identical. And dont' try to sweep what you did in Bebop under the rug. You literally knew you weren't allowed to say anything more in the thread, after posting in the thread, and then decided to PM me your scumpick. That was not an honest mistake. That being an honest mistake is literally impossible.

EDIT: Wait, but you're not trying to argue your way back into mafia.

I'm not sure what interpretation you're taking for "blacklist", but it doesn't mean you're going to be raked over the hot coals and tarred. It just means you won't be let /in future mafia games, because you have a destructive playstyle and really just can't handle the honor system elements of DGames.

Some adventure games have very extensive honor system rules and communication rules in particular are very extensive. You're still having trouble with "stop PMing players while they're alive and trying to sway their opinions".

 

[Lore]

You did the exact same ragequit **** in UTrick'd when you received pressure, too. Like literally identical. And dont' try to sweep what you did in Bebop under the rug. You literally knew you weren't allowed to say anything more in the thread, after posting in the thread, and then decided to PM me your scumpick. That was not an honest mistake. That being an honest mistake is literally impossible.

In U'Trick'd, though, I was convinced to stay around, and I decided to use it to try to delay the inevitable. Here, I was honestly just quitting.

Am I sweeping Bebop under the rug? No, I'm not. It was not an "honest mistake," it was a stupid action through and through caused by me not realizing how seriously people took the game. Can we agree there?

 

[Lore]

EDIT: Wait, but you're not trying to argue your way back into mafia.

I'm not sure what interpretation you're taking for "blacklist", but it doesn't mean you're going to be raked over the hot coals and tarred. It just means you won't be let /in future mafia games, because you have a destructive playstyle and really just can't handle the honor system elements of DGames.

Some adventure games have very extensive honor system rules and communication rules in particular are very extensive. You're still having trouble with "stop PMing players while they're alive and trying to sway their opinions".

Oh, ok. Understood. I was thinking of it as a "hate list," I think, due to experiences with Tom. Then again, haha, he takes mafia much more seriously than the aberage player.

True enough about AGames. Mind if I at least have a chance with that game type before any decision is made, though?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Werekill, I don't think there is going to be a site ban put on you for the forum subsection. More or less I think that what is going to occur is a collective black list until you can be trusted again. I don't think anyone joins a mafia game with bad intentions. However, what is under question here is whether you can be responsible for your own actions and most importantly, to not to let your emotions get the better of you when it comes to following the rules. I'm gonna miss you bad, so bad, real bad. But I understand where other people are coming from and I think you do too. You've got to earn back that trust somehow and I hope you do it soon.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah staff would never do something like that unless it was actually against forum rules, and breaking rules of a game is not one of them unless it is deliberate trolling.

For the record, I do remove people from my blacklist if I think time passes by or I see a reason to trust again.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Setup Stuff!

Town:
Neighbor
Cop
Jailer
Hated Voyeur
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT

Mafia:
Mafia Tailor
Mafia FBI Agent

Indy:
Indy Traitor Neighbor
One-Shot BP Indy Abductor

---

I actually really thought this setup worked in all the right places.

Even though many people say that they didn't catch EE because they had no idea 2 indys were present, I'd say the presence of an FBI agent certainly hints toward this. As EE already pointed out, an FBI agent gives more credence to this fact than just a plain old stalker.

A main theory behind this setup's creation was one faction hunting another. The main complaint that I always seem to get (it was present here) is that, when someone rolls mafia, they ***** and moan because they don't get to scumhunt. The theory I had going here was the fact that I let town hunt scum, but I also set it up so that mafia actually had something to do besides just go for mislynches: hunting the indies. Not only did their role confirm the presence of a third party (which I hoped would spurn them into doing something), they also got the chance to hunt for his both Day and Night. By Day, they could use the traditional in-thread scumhunting methods to find the indies and by Night they would have incentive to read the thread to pick a target for their FBI investigation. And, of course, the indies were supposed to be out there hunting mafia. The abductor obviously had to hunt down the FBI agent before he was investigated (appeared inno to the regular cop) while the traitor knew that the mafia had an FBI investigator in the first place.

Besides that cool little mechanic, there were plenty of other little things that I hope would come to fruition that sadly didn't.

The voyeur was actually the most pivotal role on the town side, surprisingly.

The point of the Voyeur was to:

1. Possibly see the tailor do his **** and therefore spread WIFOM like no other if the cop actually had an incriminating/clearing result.

2. Confirm the presence of the FBI agent. Because the Voyeur wouldn't see the alignment of the roles he saw, had he seen an FBI investigation, the mafia's claim would have been much more credible (considering the fact that no one has really implemented a mafia FBI agent on dGames before).

3. Alert scum what roles were in the game if he was forced to claim. This actually did end up happening when JTB claimed a jailer existed.

The voyeur has such little use on a normal basis and is usually thought of as a trash role, so I hope this game changes that perspective on it. The Voyeur in this setup was actually a really key role to every faction.

Doc was too powerful in this setup so Jailer was implemented in its place. Fairly standard.

Cop was fairly standard. Heavily checked by only two mafia and the fact that one of them was a tailor.

Neighbors were interesting. Obviously left me room to give a scum role to the Indy, but I also didn't give them each others name claims or roles. I was suspecting some shenanigans there but that played out fairly standardly.

Abductor was also fairly regular. In this size of this game I thought not having any buffs was kind of weak but having him have full Night immunity was too much. One-shot bp solved that. The mechanic I used to return the players once he died was strictly for number balance, but it certainly turned out to be a twist no one was expecting.

5VTs were also a good addition. Just enough to give scum to push some mislynches through but not enough to make it to vanilla-y. I think it gave a good mix between scumhunting and role analysis with of course more emphasis on the scumhunting.

---

All in all I was really happy with how this setup turned out and I think it was certainly the strongest I've ever created. Too bad some of the mechanics didn't actually occur but that's just the luck of the draw I suppose.

I hope everyone enjoyed it!

Player analysis coming soon.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Mafia one shot strongman huh?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

A main theory behind this setup's creation was one faction hunting another. The main complaint that I always seem to get (it was present here) is that, when someone rolls mafia, they ***** and moan because they don't get to scumhunt. The theory I had going here was the fact that I let town hunt scum, but I also set it up so that mafia actually had something to do besides just go for mislynches: hunting the indies. Not only did their role confirm the presence of a third party (which I hoped would spurn them into doing something), they also got the chance to hunt for his both Day and Night. By Day, they could use the traditional in-thread scumhunting methods to find the indies and by Night they would have incentive to read the thread to pick a target for their FBI investigation. And, of course, the indies were supposed to be out there hunting mafia. The abductor obviously had to hunt down the FBI agent before he was investigated (appeared inno to the regular cop) while the traitor knew that the mafia had an FBI investigator in the first place.

This is freaking genius by the way.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I shoulda taken the hint on the voyeur flip that my role was probably less useful than I thought. Usually towns don't have multiple investigatives unless they're bad or one of the investigatives is incredibly weak.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yeh but tbh who was expecting two indys?

 

[Kataefi]

I love it when the mod explains their rationale behind a cool setup. GJ kuz

 

[th3kuzinator]

Kuz - I really think this was one of the better setups I've ever played. It was very inventive, with lots of little curveballs and twists to keep you guessing (as a good mafia game should) but also not obtuse or esoteric in its design. Things like losing all abductees but one or the bonus indy are neat possibilities. Although people will say that there's no hint of another indy, it bears mention that by informing the indy traitor of the scumteam you put them at the disadvantage of information; connections can now be deciphered and ascertained, rather than an indy survivor running blind and then winning atop town. There's also the fact that Mafia had an FBI Agent, as opposed to a sEmbarrasstalker. This implies more incentive to have an indy investigator than just one bad guy to offer up before lapping up your town points. Particularly with a 2man scumteam. Plus neighbors draw inherent scrutiny, and I was claiming Gordon Goddamn Freeman. The guy who not only became a headcrab zombie but got combine science put on his face shortly thereafter.

The other design choices were undeniably solid. 2man scumteam with tailor and (presumably) not-mafia-investigating traitor check the cop hard, while the cop is still a resource when coupled with scumhunting. Jailer could also be a mafia roleblocker, and thus does not get cleared-by-claim unless they actually do something with their ability that earns it (or gambit as much as scum... once again, scumhunting is key). Voyeur was a very very informative role that also doesn't bust the game open other than in some tactical scenarios that would be hard to wrangle out.

And just, the flavor too. The right mix of misleading red herrings (Science, Zombie Goasts, the ****ing HUG TOWER, and Headcrab Officer as townies) and bang on stuff (Gordon's alignment). The very inspired, very very entertaining flips and day starts and everything. I laughed many times while playing this game, and most of that is on you. The flavor felt like a celebration and tribute of the flavor, and so it should. The role PMs were a riot. People could learn so so much about incorporating flavor into a game from this one.

Add in prompt, responsive modding, lots of votecounts, no unreasonable delays etc and you have one of my best experiences in many years of mafia at the sheer technical/modding level. And I've played some damn fine games.

All of the props for kooz

well **** you should buy me dinner before getting me this excited Embarrass

 

[Evil Eye]

remember when kuzi was gonna do player shoutouts in the last game I ever played and didn't

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

oh god dont remind me of this game

gorf ur a fkin moron

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

yea im a fkin moron mkay

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

im a fkin moron mkay