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Ha Ha Ha! The Wario Social

Child Star

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
546
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Mobile, Alabama
Played against roy for the first time and was thoroughly spanked, i didnt even look like wario. He would hang around the edges of the map to try and get me off stage and once i auto piloted into low recovery hed just hold the ledge with neutral b. Pour one out for a dead homie also tips for the wario roy MU. Obviously dont try to recover low.
 

Strong Badam

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I actually love playing that MU a lot, perhaps because one of my favorite rivals I've ever had is Sethlon. I think it's evenish (to the point where I don't really care who wins) but it can be a struggle in neutral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4WhGfyNroQ

The key to the matchup is to understand exactly what Roy's range is and which attacks he's likely to do. Playing Roy a little and getting a feel for what attacks you'd like to do in various situations can help.
Against U-air strings, SDI them upwards. A lot of people try to DI sideways but this only extends them. The same can be true for Fairs; SDI them away so you take as little damage as possible.

You want to have a solid understanding of how to combo Roy; the classic U-Throw -> U-Air -> Bite combo works on Roy's fallspeed class and is a crowd favorite as well (:3). Wario CCs a lot of Roy's moves well, but don't get overzealous in holding down; one of Roy's best options is Grab and his other moves will cause tumble, leading to a tech-chase.
 

Child Star

Smash Ace
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Sep 7, 2014
Messages
546
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I actually love playing that MU a lot, perhaps because one of my favorite rivals I've ever had is Sethlon. I think it's evenish (to the point where I don't really care who wins) but it can be a struggle in neutral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4WhGfyNroQ

The key to the matchup is to understand exactly what Roy's range is and which attacks he's likely to do. Playing Roy a little and getting a feel for what attacks you'd like to do in various situations can help.
Against U-air strings, SDI them upwards. A lot of people try to DI sideways but this only extends them. The same can be true for Fairs; SDI them away so you take as little damage as possible.

You want to have a solid understanding of how to combo Roy; the classic U-Throw -> U-Air -> Bite combo works on Roy's fallspeed class and is a crowd favorite as well (:3). Wario CCs a lot of Roy's moves well, but don't get overzealous in holding down; one of Roy's best options is Grab and his other moves will cause tumble, leading to a tech-chase.
How often do you get to play Sethlon? I remember seeing him and Denti playing in a Texas Monthly and that man has a smooth Roy.
 

Strong Badam

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Not very often at the moment, but I'm moving to Dallas in January so hopefully I'll meet him in tournament often n_n
 

Agi

Smash Lord
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Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,120
Location
SE Washington
Played against roy for the first time and was thoroughly spanked, i didnt even look like wario. He would hang around the edges of the map to try and get me off stage and once i auto piloted into low recovery hed just hold the ledge with neutral b. Pour one out for a dead homie also tips for the wario roy MU. Obviously dont try to recover low.
Recovering low isn't quite as suicidal as it seems when you first start playing the matchup - if you find yourself there, try to bait an early use of it, or drill sideways if he's standing too close to the ledge to interrupt. Either way you definitely want to snap to the ledge if you don't connect with a hitbox, or the neutral B will be the least of your worries. Roy's recovery is plenty safe against Wario (and so many others), that Blazer gives so much coverage. But you have the aerial mobility to get to him before that crucial range. There's not really a whole lot he can do besides smack you with a weak hitbox if you catch him before he can Up B. BThrow makes it so easy to convert the game offstage, and that's where I'd prefer to be in this matchup at all times. Learn to respect what Roy can do (UAir strings, FAir/UAir -> FSmash, Flare Blade edgeguards, UThrow/UAir -> BAir finisher) and you'll quickly start bringing it back.

If you find yourself being FAired across the entire stage though, just smile for the camera. As far as I can tell, Wario and Roy are great combo weight for each other, and they prefer similar stages. Make good use of your techchases, they're better than his.
 

Mr.Pickle

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
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on a reservation
Idk man he's pretty fat, so he might need more than that. I love fighting roy btw, one of my favorite people to play against mains roy in pm. Even my friend excluded, I've always had a lot of fun playing against roy, very fair matchup with not a lot of janky things in it, and it feels pretty even.

Side note - I would never live in texas, too flat for me. I'm too used to living on hills. Also there are giant spiders, and their armored variant lol, so that's a big no for me. Like the smashers I met there though, sethlon is a baller and he has an amazing place, and orcale is a pretty snazy dude as well, hell that whole group is pretty baller. I might visit for tournies and junk, but phack living there.
 

Mr.Pickle

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I agree with every change to wario, those were good decisions. As much as I understand and agree with changing them, I'm gonna miss the old dash grab and the cancel on aerial side b. The biggest thing I'll miss is actually footstooling people out of their shield....I agree to a point that it shouldn't be a thing, but that doesn't make me miss it less lol. Love how down smash is a move again, and I like the changes to fully charged fart. I honestly don't think wario has anything janky anymore, and his design looks pretty complete to me.

Also what does the "Multihit SDI multiplier decreased from 0.25x to 0x." on up b mean? I'm going to take a stab and say that you can't SDI it now, or am I completely wrong?
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
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Also what does the "Multihit SDI multiplier decreased from 0.25x to 0x." on up b mean? I'm going to take a stab and say that you can't SDI it now, or am I completely wrong?
That's right. It was very slightly SDI-able, but moves that deal 1% or less are historically un-SDI-able.
 

Beorn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
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256
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Nashville TN
Bravo PMDT. These are magnificent changes. All of Warios stupid **** is dealt with while still keeping him an amazing character in 3.5.
Wario mains rejoice!
 

TTTTTsd

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I am just happy Wario has a normal dash grab now. The mixup dash grab really only would've worked if he could still crouch out of shoulder tackle and that was removed.
 

Mr.Pickle

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Can't say that for your boi link :p he's so garbage now lol #cantkilloredgeguard

@ TTTTTsd TTTTTsd - it still worked to an extent, made the opponent scared to shield it, which is supposed to be the best thing to do against it. It's kinda sad that I don't have a cool mix up dash grab, but meh, I understand the decision and I feel like he's more balanced because of it.
 
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Agi

Smash Lord
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Jul 27, 2008
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SE Washington
I find myself missing the bite lower hitbox and the dash grab a lot. It'll take some time to adjust my play, but I think I can get used to the changes. The BAir feels a lot more reliable now. Just really wish the update had waited another day, my monthly starts in an hour. Hoping for the best.
 

Child Star

Smash Ace
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Sep 7, 2014
Messages
546
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I find myself missing the bite lower hitbox and the dash grab a lot. It'll take some time to adjust my play, but I think I can get used to the changes. The BAir feels a lot more reliable now. Just really wish the update had waited another day, my monthly starts in an hour. Hoping for the best.
Goodluck all the Lucas and Link mains are donezo.
 

Ace55

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
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Amsterdam
I'm sad to see dash grab go. Not going to lose any sleep over it, heck I think it took a couple of games before I even noticed, but I thought it was nifty without even being a great option. Didn't really see anything wrong with it.

Otherwise Wario looking great.
 

Anime

Smash Journeyman
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Auburn
I'll say this, with the new brawl dash grab, I was having a way easier time chain grabbing wolf.
 

Agi

Smash Lord
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Well, got some experience vs. Roy. Technically. I did not adapt to Wario's various changes very well, particularly grounded Shoulder Bash going offstage (the IASA come out later the further you use your first offstage jump now...) and the lack of a lower bite hitbox. Panicked at my perceived lack of options, overrelied on grounded shoulder bash, got punished for it. I really miss the mix-up with the dash grab. Ah well, getting used to it'll take some time. At least the UThrow chain against spacies is much easier now.

Oh yeah, and surprisingly won the Doubles side of things with my sparring partner who's in love with the new Zelda. Seemede to be some great synergy there.
 
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Strong Badam

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The bite itself is clearly worse, but yes the throws have been tweaked to fit their original desired purpose better.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
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500
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I didn't realize how often I used the dash grab until this patch. This is going to take some serious getting used to. Also @ Strong Badam Strong Badam , when you DACUS do you use the claw technique or do you have a configured set up?
 

Coney

Smash Master
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May 25, 2008
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Rapture Farms
disagree about bite, feels WAY worse

only played one event so far tho so maybe i just need to adjust

feels like people can hold down and a direction, even if they **** up the DI they get to tech off the ground which sucks

could be wrong but feels baaad, will test on netplay
 

CyberZixx

Smash Lord
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Oct 26, 2012
Messages
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Speaking of DACUS, is the timing different or am I just really outta practice?
 

Mr.Pickle

Smash Lord
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Was his a 2 frame one before? Because everyone's now is a 2 frame input. I can notice it's a lot harder to dacus now with not only him, but pretty much everybody. I actually messed up ganon's a couple of times, and that one used to be hella easy.
 

Mr.Pickle

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Hmmm well I always used attack to input it, but I had my z button set to attack so idk. It seems like I get it 45% of the time instead of 95%. There might be something that's throwing me off.
 

Killabyte

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 5, 2014
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13
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Western New York State.
Wario VS Ivysaur is still one of the most fun matches in the game, from what I can tell.
Fortunately I disliked trying to use the bite move before anyway, so I don't mind it's nerfs at all.
It's a move that restricts Wario's air movement, when the reason I like to use him is for moving eloquently in the air.
 

Agi

Smash Lord
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Wario VS Ivysaur is still one of the most fun matches in the game, from what I can tell.
Fortunately I disliked trying to use the bite move before anyway, so I don't mind it's nerfs at all.
It's a move that restricts Wario's air movement, when the reason I like to use him is for moving eloquently in the air.
Command grabs though, dude. Catch it on an opponent who's shielding, or above you on a platform, and you get a free 11% or so and the potential for a techchase on fastfallers or an aerial on floatier characters. His air movement really complements the bite, if not necessarily the other way around. It's pretty punishable on a whiff, I'll admit.
 

Turazrok

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
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4,133
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LA
Bite is amazing and ivysaur is an awful matchup. You sir have **** taste.
 

Frost | Odds

Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
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Nov 12, 2013
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Calgary, Alberta
Just tried Wario again for the first time in many moons. He feels awesome and perfectly intuitive, a lot of the jank/misc crap removed, but I think he should be significantly better against the current meta than the one of 3.0.

Amazing job to the PMDT. Wario seems like an amazing secondary to Bowser. ^^
 

Rayvelion

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
4
Can anyone explain in lay-man's terms some of the changes from 3.02 to 3.5? Specifically:
Down throw now tumbling at 0%, what does this mean for down throw follow ups? Does the opponent get to react faster or slower than before or neither?

Just about ALL of this:
Side Special (Shoulder Charge)
--Aerial version's top hitbox moved forward 0.5 units. Bottom hitbox moved forward 1.5 units to match. Coverage improved slightly.
--Aerial version BKB decreased from 50 to 20. KBG increased from 80 to 100.
--During Shoulder Charge Jump, DJ Interrupt increased from 21 to 31.
--Side B Jump damage & KB matched to aerial version.
--Wario can no longer hold back to end Aerial version early.
--Various subaction hitlag modifiers decreased from 1.4x to 1.0x.

One thing I noticed today in our PM PR Tourny was that Shoulder Charge can no longer hit people who are sitting on the ledge (where it used to be able to in 3.02). This does not seem to be mentioned in the changes as it makes me think the hitbox in general got moved upwards to not touch hitboxes on ledges? It sounds like in the changes it only got moved forwards but I got caught quite a few times charging at the ledge and expecting it to hit and having it not occur. Although the ability to not have Shoulder Charge get beaten by a lot of projectiles is wonderful.

More specifically, what does double jump interrupt being increased mean, also the subaction hitlag modifiers?
 

SixSaw

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
321
Location
Chicago, IL
Shoulder charge definitely still hits people hanging on the edge.

DJ interrupt being increased means that the window to cancel a shoulder charge jump with a double jump occurs later, so you're committed to more horizontal movement when jumping from shoulder charge than you were previously.
 

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties
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Nov 18, 2007
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Temple University, Philadelphia
ORLY? Now presenting Wario changelogs in english so a Wario could understand it.
Down throw now tumbling at 0%, what does this mean for down throw follow ups? Does the opponent get to react faster or slower than before or neither?
They react slower, as they must now break the tumble before your follow up (unlikely) and it will cause a hard knockdown when they land (if they break the tumble). You can break out of tumble by alternating left/right inputs, like full speed dash dances). Dthrow is about the same in effectiveness as before. This change likely made up for the loss in damage dealt.
Just about ALL of this:
Side Special (Shoulder Charge)
--Aerial version's top hitbox moved forward 0.5 units. Bottom hitbox moved forward 1.5 units to match. Coverage improved slightly.
Now imagine that big red hit-circle a little bit in front of his head, and a second one a little bit in front of his fist.
--Aerial version BKB decreased from 50 to 20. KBG increased from 80 to 100.
Air SB has less knockback at low at low% and more knockback at high%.
--During Shoulder Charge Jump, DJ Interrupt increased from 21 to 31.
After jumping from grounded SB, it takes roughly 50% longer before Wario can cancel SB-jump with double jump. So you can't dj back while rising from SB anymore. You have to wait until he dips down a bit.
--Side B Jump damage & KB matched to aerial version.
Jumping from grounded SB used to deal damage and kb equal to the average damage and kb of the grounded SB. Thus, you could always have an average damage/kb SB by jumping right before hitting someone if they were too close to you. Now it has the aerial SB properties, which are listed above.
--Wario can no longer hold back to end Aerial version early.
If you don't know what this is, it won't affect you at all. I'm not sure if I had any influence on this decision, but you can see some things you could do with "hold back to end aerial version early" here, and in the thread inside of it: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-shoulder-bash-cancel-tech.369094/
--Various subaction hitlag modifiers decreased from 1.4x to 1.0x.
It's harder to sdi out of various moves Wario has. Wario animates slightly faster when hitting enemies.
 

Strong Badam

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So far my placings in 3.5 are 2nd (to Oro who I'm like 1-7 against now anyway) and 1st (beating darkrain) with ~90% Wario. :3
 

Matasd

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
42
I'm going to a tourney today! I hope the same captain falcon that took me out of the last 2 doesn't take me out of the tournament again though...
 
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