Ha Ha Ha! The Wario Social

[Agi]

An aerial bite, a grab, FAir, waft, lots of stuff if you read their DI. With floaties, it sets em up right in front of you in the air with frame advantage. Spacies tend to flop to the ground, so you can techchase with DSmash or shoulder bash.

 

[Mookiefish]

What can Wario get off of a bite?

Anything from a few points of damage to a 0 to death.

 

[Agi]

Well, that was easily the worst tournament experience I've ever had. The thing was supposed to start at 1, expecting a ~30 player turnout. I worked at 4 but talked to my manager ahead of time, she said we'd probably be slow anyway so not to worry if it ran a bit late.

The TOs didn't even show up until 2:30, and did not supply a single setup. It was the two I brought and the one the guy who invited me had brought. I had to leave as soon as the event started, since my manager said we needed me after all, but when I got to work there was nothing for me to do.

I work an hour away from the venue.

4 hours of round trip driving for what turned out to be a 13 person turnout, 2 of which no-showed, another of which was me, with no setups (had to leave mine there while I was at "work" so they could even run the event) and a $15 venue fee. This has not been a good day.

At least I got in a good few hours of friendlies.

MORE POSITIVELY. Bulby has been my hero for a good month now and he just solidified it even more with a jazzy rendition of the source for Wario's victory theme, give it a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Bs3ezKs-c

 

[Agi]

Back from the lab! ...over the past couple of days. Huh, it's been two and a half months since anyone posted here - let's try to keep the one-question threads in this place, if we could! Anyway, in preparation for my tourney tomorrow, I've been trying to squeeze out any data I could on Wario, and I've come out with a good amount of stuff!

Autocancel BAir is something that gets used a fair amount for spacing, but did you know that UAir autocancels too? It's a 2-frame window and kind of a weird input, especially if you don't have tap jump on. I've been using tap jump to jump as quickly as possible before flicking up on the C-stick after hearing the analog stick click back into place, and it's really been working out for me! FAir autocancels too and is super generous about the timing. You can even fastfall when you're close to the ground.

Also - as it turns out, our full hop is basically the perfect height. If you use it on Battlefield or PS2 right below a platform, you'll see what I mean... Wario No Impact Lands right onto them. Here's a video from PewPewU on the applications of NIL.

On -every stage with platforms- on the tourney-legal list besides Norfair, Smashville, and Dreamland, we can full hop straight into a NIL. (Yoshi's Melee, Brawl, and Green Hill Zone will require some finagling due to the weirdness of the layout, but we can still get it for little effort.) And on those, our "tournament winner", the ledgejump, puts us directly on top of them! We may not have a whole lot of character-specific ATs, but basic stuff like this - definitely worth investigating.

EDIT: Oh my god this is huge. On every stage with platforms except FoD and GHZ, Wario can jump from the ledge towards a platform and -immediately- land on the platform with a double jump after passing through it slightly. It's similar to Yoshi's thing, using an autocanceled aerial to do the same thing, (which we can do as well) but with a double jump you NO IMPACT LAND. Hopefully I'll be able to use this on stream tomorrow, as I can't record anything on my own atm.

 

[Child Star]

Trying to get back in the mix, going to another Alabama monthly today, gotta play kirby and G&W for sure, then probably some wolfs. Wish me luck.

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

HE'SA WARIO!
HE'SA GUNNA WIN!

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

But on a more serious note, I'm working on a wavedash into neutral B combo that'll combo into some other stuff when I'm not **** at the game
Also if I can't say bad words let me know Mom

 

[Matasd]

I've actually been thinking along the same lines, using wave dash to bite to catch people off guard though theoretically if you can wavedash bite you can wave dash grab which has more options out of it.

 

[supascoot]

The problem with WD -> anything as wario is that he has a really crappy short wavedash. I could see waveland chomp being a thing, but really I'd prefer to grab against most characters. One thing I'm wondering is whether grounded chomp or grab has more range, as that might actually make it better if it does have more range. Chomp is better against spot dodges, so I can see the use there.

One topic I'd like to discuss in the neutral game. I'm having a lot of trouble spacing my moves correctly and using the right option, and I'd like some input based on that. My current plan in the neutral is to space with fair and bair, with the occasional dtilt and JC grab to try and get something started. I like to stay at mid range vrs most characters, however the things that mess me up are characters that can easily close the distance and pressure wario effectively, as well as the usual disjoint characters. It feels like I have limited options in the neutral against a lot of the cast, as they either have too much lag or are easily beaten out by their moves. Some input from on how you play the neutral is greatly appreciated

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

OK Scratch that, I'm currently working on consistently short hopping in fights, and not full hopping like an asshole.
Next is L-Canceling, which I've been practicing and don't quite have down.

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

accordingtomycalculationsthepizzawillbereadyinexactly30.33repeatingminutes

Your avatar is the best
I may have stolen it and put it in my signature

 

[Agi]

It might be worth practicing short hopping with Fox, Toon Link, or another character with a three frame jumpsquat. If you can get it down with them, you can do it with any character.

 

[Matasd]

As to neutral game with wario you really have to abuse your aerial mobility, it lets wario play a heavy bait and punish style. Also if you condition a opponent into staying in shield due to approaches with spaced bairs or fairs you can mix in a bite to really get in. While warios wavedash is pretty short it still has a lot of good uses if you run towards an opponent and then wavedash towards your opponent you can sometimes catch them off guard, for that approach i usually like to go for some jab/dtilt pressure and try and get into a grab.

 

[Hyper]

I didn't see a Q&A thread so I figured I'd ask here.(please undastand)
How many seconds does it take to get the 3rd level waft?

Does Wario have any move that isn't really great?

How do I effectively use bite? Bites super different in PM and I'm not sure how to use it in the neutral.

 

[Agi]

Waft data's all in here. http://smashboards.com/threads/waft-stuff.393048/

I used to think UTilt wasn't really all that useful but I've come around on that. Uh... pre-boosting waft is pretty useless. Every other move has a bunch of application.

I haven't played Wario in Sm4sh or Brawl at a competitive level so I have -no- idea how it's used there in comparison to PM, but here it's basically the best combo extender/airgrab you could ask for. It's more or less a 50/50 mixup into his great combo game, if they DI in you have tons and tons of options to follow up, but if they DI away you're limited to techchasing or DACUS.

 

[Hyper]

Thanks Agi.
The Bite in the other games is used for damage racking, shield pressure and ledge-guarding by the way.

 

[Agi]

Yep, just watch out about getting predictable with it, it's active for a bit less than the length of spotdodge intangibility. You'll almost exclusively want to use the air version btw, he's got great drift while the hitboxes are active. Jumping with a chomp in the middle of a string can let you fastfall right back down to regain your second jump. One of the best things about it is that it doesn't put people into tumble until they get some good % on them, basically guaranteeing regrabs at low %s. Land a chomp on Fox at 0 and that stock is basically yours if you practice the spacie chaingrab.

 

[Child Star]

Got out of Death pools at a pretty big Auburn tourney, unfortunately I suck at smash brothers so I came in 25th out of something like 60~. Saw @TheReflexWonder there, he had a pretty leafy Ivysaur.

 

[Agi]

Fantastic experience at PNW Majors this weekend, got to fight against @Odds_, @Chevy, Big D, Bladewise, Silentwolf, and plenty more. 113 entrants, took 13th (SO close on both winners and losers sets, but ah well. Most significant accomplishment was taking a set from SilentWolf who had just come off of the Melee singles win and probably wasn't looking to expend a lot of mental energy figuring out a new matchup on the spot. Still, definitely going next time. Maybe this time around I'll have a seed.

 

[Child Star]

Fantastic experience at PNW Majors this weekend, got to fight against @Odds_, @Chevy, Big D, Bladewise, Silentwolf, and plenty more. 113 entrants, took 13th (SO close on both winners and losers sets, but ah well. Most significant accomplishment was taking a set from SilentWolf who had just come off of the Melee singles win and probably wasn't looking to expend a lot of mental energy figuring out a new matchup on the spot. Still, definitely going next time. Maybe this time around I'll have a seed.

Nice Job man!

 

[Jmanthedragonguy]

Heya, not a Wario specific question, but something that comes in to play alot because of his limited recovery. Ivysaur is great at ledge-guarding me in general, but now my friend has gotten great success in waiting to see if I drop down to sweetspot, if so he takes ledge, and if not he d-smash's me on reaction.
This d-smash sends at a dirty angle, and has been killing me at ridiculous percents for quite some time. Any tips for wall-teching this? I assume it is relatively similar to the Spacies down smashes..
x_X

 

[Agi]

Sounds like you need to mix up your recovery angles more/DI more consistently. Up B-ing early can be a great tool to stuff attackers, and airdodging to either cross up or fade back to grab ledge/ledgecancel is another powerful tool I typically see go underutilized. Remember your Waft, if you use it before you jump you have a heck of a lot of flexibility with your recovery angles. It sounds like this Ivy player has caught on that you're recovering low more often than not, do whatever you can to be unpredictable!

EDIT: Oh, missed that this was about wallteching specifically. Um. SDI in with the C-stick and press the shield button before the attack connects?

 

[Child Star]

Pretty dumb question here, but does anyone still try to gimp with down-air? Obviously its super risky and generally a bad idea, but there are a couple of characters where it's a simple prediction (3D CF Ganondorf). I tend to just try dair or downsmash on the edge.

 

[Agi]

Pretty much just those three plus Game and Watch, yeah. It feels unfair most of the time, but then I get grabbed and I stop feeling guilty.

 

[Matasd]

Dair isnt neccesarily a bad option but you need to know for certain that it is going to hit. One thing to make it much safer is to do it on the very edge of the stage(you can actually ledge cancel this) and if they stick their head out theyll get booty bounced. Also with fart you can risk a dair off stage and still make it back.

 

[sneakytako]

I went to a local size tournament, got 4th behind hankypanky, boss, and DP. Wario is so good lmao.

 

[Agi]

Apparently the MI/OH area is starting to catch on, one of my buddies who lives over there says there was just an EXPLOSION of Wario players at their last event. Nice job on the 4th.

 

[Child Star]

I was at a mobile monthly yesterday, the Southeast is getting pretty active as well.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Yeah there's like 5 warios in TN now, like where was this support 2 years ago lol.

 

[Child Star]

Who knows, but Wario intolerance is getting pretty high. Lots of salt lately.

 

[Hyper]

It's probably because of 3.02 Wario. I hated those nerfs so much I dropped PM for a bit.

Also every single one of my friends hate PM Wario just because of the sideb, the salt is too real.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

It's a pretty stupid move to be fair

 

[Child Star]

Yeah, but PM is full of stupid moves.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

True dat, there is a lot of dumb shiz in this game, but that doesn't mean wario is exempt from that. Pretty much every character has something pretty stupid about them, sometimes more than just one thing.

 

[Strong Badam]

Also every single one of my friends hate PM Wario just because of the sideb, the salt is too real.

I made a very helpful visual guide to beating Wario's SideB that your friends will appreciate:

Here are TWO very obscure options that completely and utterly beat SideB, should be helpful.

 

[Child Star]

Yeah but how are they supposed to beat bite, thats also really jank and unfair.

 

[Agi]

Hold one of those buttons and press down. Works for my training partners. Unless it's an air combo string in which case they should work on their DI, they're way too close to you.

 

[Hyper]

I made a very helpful visual guide to beating Wario's SideB that your friends will appreciate:

That's the best part, I always tell them to shield it and they always make an excuse.
I love Wario salt.

 

[Agi]

Figured I'd drop this in raw from a ramble in the Wario skype group. Hope it helps someone out.

Longer response incoming, but do you have c-stick roll buffering in your toolkit? I may've already asked
[8:28:31 PM] Agi: It's a option for escaping spacie shield pressure, along with just holding shield longer
[8:28:41 PM] Agi: Frame traps are real
[8:30:02 PM | Edited 8:30:27 PM] Agi: As far as the combo game goes, the UThrow CG is only guaranteed to about 20%, at which point he can shine out with no DI and good timing - which you can respond to with USmash or UTilt
[8:30:54 PM] Agi: Or probably SHAC UAir though I've yet to really work that in
[8:32:29 PM] Agi: When comboing Fox you really want to focus on the vertical axis, FAir loses utility quickly. I basically use it at low % on grounded Foxes to set up a grab
[8:36:24 PM] Agi: UThrow is good at all %s for regrab at low, USmash/UTilt at midlow, UAir at mid, BAir/sourspot UAir/NAir at midhigh, as well as sealing with a waft at 80%+
[8:37:01 PM] Agi: Sourspot UAir to BAir is also super good around that range
[8:38:03 PM] Agi: Fox doesn't actually go into tumble from chomp until 24% or so, so you can get a regrab off of falling chomp pretty reliably
[8:39:02 PM] Agi: And of course aggressive ledge camping while he's trying to recover can make landing that NAir all the easier
[8:39:48 PM] Agi: Only go for side B if he doesn't have his jump and he's being indecisive about side B over up B
[8:40:10 PM] Agi: Many Foxes won't up B unless they're below the ledge level
[8:41:02 PM] Agi: And while side B CAN knock him out of the charge animation of up B, it can only do so in the first few frames before the protective hitboxes come up
[8:42:07 PM] Agi: We can jump out of UThrow UAir, SDIing shine makes it super manageable
[8:43:10 PM] Agi: And if you can ever manage to land a DAir on him onstage
[8:43:20 PM] Agi: At any % above 35
[8:43:25 PM] Agi: He should be dead
[8:48:52 PM] Agi: So yeah, combo him vertically, KO him horizontally. Regrabs, techchases, and UAirs (strong and weak) are your friends for combo extending, and UThrow is your go-to. Use side B sparingly as always as it loses not only to shield but to his shffled NAir. If he gets offstage, it's not a free kill, but you certainly control the situation. We are pleasingly safe from shinespikes more than most characters because dat disjoint, but he CAN manage it. Our NAir is great as a panic button as always
[8:49:53 PM] Agi: I uh, hope there was at least -some- new information in that that'll help out
[8:50:52 PM] Agi: Oh yeah and our DTilt is a trap in that MU
[8:51:05 PM] Agi: He just NAirs over it and lols
[8:51:50 PM] Agi: Only really useful as a shieldpoke or followup from FAir at low %s
[8:52:00 PM] Agi: Though it can also push him to ledge
[8:58:51 PM] Agi: Dammit I scared everyone away
[9:14:13 PM] Agi: DThrow with your back to the ledge > fall after > NAir on reaction is gr8 too

 

[sneakytako]

Got 4th again behind hankypanky, fizzle, and drephen. Got paid this time though :D

How the **** do you beat a good peach with wario Q.Q.