Gunner Style Discussion

[LIQUID12A]

I hate Gunner's long as hell recovery on Fair. It's mainly my fault, though, for using it off edges frequently.

My preferred build doesn't use any of the projectile alterers(reflect/absorb), but mainly because I play Gunner akin to Colonel Radec in PSASBR. And that I usually use Gunner in friendlies anyway.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

That's definitely quite interesting. I'm trying to learn more kill setups. I'm liking using homing missile against airborne opponents. Grenade can also be combod out of, but it takes some setting up. Jab cancels are also positional since utilt has such little horizontal range and jab-> dtilt may need to be frame perfect.

Saw BlueTerrorist's Gunner in videos, it is indeed improving steadily

My Gunner is already in videos o_O?

EDIT: Nvm, I had a derp moment lol. I hope to do you guys proud .

 

[metroidfan987]

I wasn't on stream a lot so I only have losing matches and not me doing good in other matches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdAdoGaGpds&list=PLz7rkkbQbM0nC9vmTJPANWgaMoFumY7ER&index=14 Vs. WFT (John Numbers)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haL3RYodNeQ&index=19&list=PLz7rkkbQbM0nC9vmTJPANWgaMoFumY7ER Vs Lucario/HelpR (1st match only... Though I probably should have stayed Gunner).

This was my 2nd tourney with Gunner. Been told to drop Sonic and Greninja for Gunner because some felt my Gunner was my best character. Regardless, I should rely on Fair a lot more. My poking and baiting was more safer than using nades predominately. I don't think I used Gundashing as well as I hoped, I'm pretty sure I can be more mobile than this. Killing is hard with this character admittedly but I've been working on it.

My Gunner is improving fast I feel. The next major one is Smash Attack at Next Level. Hope I can get my Gunner on Team Spooky's stream at some point :3.

I would suggest nade+flame pillar+UP+B 1 and either bomb or absorber. The absorber might seem appealing against a projectile spammer, but they may quickly change their tactic if you try spamming the absorber. grenade+pillar+bomb = near-constant pressure and probably damage racking from virtually all angles. The grenade and bomb have enough knockback for KO above 200%. What I do against my amiibos is, when I'm playing on a FD form stage and I knocked them away from the platform, I go to the center of the stage, and I cook a grenade as the opponent is recovering. If they choose to approach in response to the nade, I jump and drop a bomb. If they dodge that, I try following up with a flame pillar. When bombing pressure is not enough, use grabs and tilts when they get in your face. In fact, bombing pressure can lure the opponent into getting grabbed. With the right specials, gunner has nearly everything necessary to maintain pressure and rack up damage.

 

[GS3K]

Here's a funny fsmash glitch - use cape/reversal slash on gunner while he's in the shooting animation of fsmash.

This happens...

The attack still connects, but the shot graphics don't turn around, and come out of your back. The shots coming out of your back will not damage opponents.

 

[GS3K]

Random gunner tidbit #57785456whatever - short hop Uair fastfall puts gunner closer to the ground than crouching, and can go under Samus missiles, Link's arrows, The Pits' arrows, ZSS paralyzer, diddy peanuts and falco lasers if timed right.

 

[Kenturo]

This section is so dead. We need to post some more.

If anyone has a capture card I would be happy to send some of my replays so maybe we could discuss some matches.

 

[san.]

I used my gunner a bit in tournament in a winner's finals, but I had to play super conservative cause it's Sheik, and the stream was really laggy and skipped a bunch. I won 1 match (Sheik) and lost 1 match (custom Sonic).

http://www.twitch.tv/smashtheroc/b/662029929?t=4h26m58s

 

[Kenturo]

Messing around with a setup for people who buffer actions expecting a trump. Near the ledge you Run>sh nair>ff back The covers the ledge jump and then when you land you can pretty much react to whatever the other guy does. For ledge attacks you can shield then upsmash, for rolls you can jc upsmash or grab, and for neutral getup you can grab or dtilt. From what I tested neutral getup looks the hardest to beat as it takes really specific timing

 

[GS3K]

Here's something that can be done with cannon uppercut - wall jump + up b once you push off the wall. If done correctly you can grab the edge after a wall jump.

I guess you could get away with this if you recover low near a stage like battlefield/T&C/FD just to get to the edge quicker, but doing it consecutively won't do much good for you because of the lack of invincibility after the first grab

 

[Kenturo]

Wanted to make a list of the most optimal grenade combos today but I fell asleep. Just decided to record some kill combos so I dont know when I will finish the list.

And another: http://i.imgur.com/Jo5c8Cn.gifv

 

[BlueTerrorist]

I just came back from regional. I was at Collision today. It was nice seeing lots of Smashers. Saw and played San too.

 

[GS3K]

Saw both of your gunners on the stream. Pretty good.

 

[Kenturo]

I was playing a Falcon player today and I noticed that the explosive part of the grenade kept on gimping him. It was mainly gimping him on the ledge but it was also sometimes doing it on stage. I've seen it happened before but today I was getting it once per game. Does anyone know exactly how this works?

 

[GS3K]

Here's some going under smashville maneuvers. You'll need:

a.) A short of average weight or less
b.) grenades
c.) either arm rocket (3) or lunar launch (1). I personally prefer arm rocket because you can aim it without worrying if you got high enough off of lunar launch.

You can:

Jump off the stage and reverse-fire a fully charged grenade

jump after a gundash and do the same thing without the turnaround

Gundash and fire a quick grenade shot while sliding backwards, slipping you off the edge.

Quickfire a grenade and bounce off the edge

Pretty much the same thing, but with different ways of pulling it off. This only really works on smashville and town and city to a degree.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I find using a fair to be easier and with Arm Rocket can make it under the 5 starters. Lunar Launch can make all of them except FD.

 

[GS3K]

d'oh, I can't fair under a stage to save my life.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Me either, GS3K.

So, that Twitch link above has expired. Does anyone know where I could go to get good match vids of Gunner? Ideally ones running 1111 or a similar set? I'm aware Grenades are more in favor, but areas I play in are going with Miis only using 1111 or are banned, so... Charge Shot it is.

 

[AEMehr]

Pegasus, do they allow variations in height or is just literally just base height / weight with 1111?

 

[Pegasus Knight]

No rule listed on height, so I use 25% height and 0 width unless they demand 50/50 default.

Personally I think 50/0 might be better for the little extra reach it grants, but I use 25/0 because that's what the Custom Moves Project does.

 

[GS3K]

Only thing I could find recently close to that description is Mik! vs Nairo game 2 of s@x 100.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L0FCWEhf1_0

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Well, that's something at least. Thank you!

 

[Zans]

Mik! showed some real potential for mii gunner. It's nice to see another 1111 player as well!

 

[Kenturo]

Found a new setup today

36% on Close hit Fair>Run> SH forward> FF> Dair> Footstool

Wanted to see if there was a way to land Dair after a close hit fair and the secret was to fastfall before doing dair.

Pretty much a guaranteed kill if you land the footstool but people can dodge the setup by jumping and airdodging immediately after(like the CPU does). Got the footstool to land once on the CPU even though it dodges the setup regularly. Definitely think their might be a way to get a guaranteed footstool.

 

[GS3K]

Mik! showed some real potential for mii gunner. It's nice to see another 1111 player as well!

1111 is good for learning how to make use of your other moves besides specials.

 

[GS3K]

Yo, they patched gunner's ability to edge-cancel with gunner missile and flame pillar. Gunner also can't slide off platforms with grenades and bombs anymore.

Other than that, gunner's pretty much unchanged.

Edit: they also nerfed charge blast. Deals 21% instead of 23% false alarm, it was probably staled.

 

[Kenturo]

Wow that slide thing is a big nerf for me. I would always do gundash>grenade to slide off stage to get out of pressure. Then there is b-reverse grenade x n on the ledge. Did he at least get any buffs?

 

[GS3K]

Haven't really noticed anything glaring

 

[Luggy]

The Mii Gunner part of this site sure is lively. As lively as the character competitively I guess.
We should try to show off the Miis (especially the Gunner) more. Maybe a montage/combo video with good effects and presentation would help. Or finally having someone proving the value of the Gunner.

Cauz' seriously, this section is super dead right now.

 

[GS3K]

Eh, all the mii fighters subforums are deadzones right now (except swordfighter, but part of that has to do with the swordfighter social thread)

 

[Luggy]

I have some ideas for a Mii montage, but I don't have the material to do it. It would be community based though, by showing off multiple players playing each Mii class. With a certain theme, it could be great. I have one in mind related to Nichijou. It could be fun to make it for promoting the Miis I guess.

 

[Damix91]

Here's some Gunner play from San which people should see (game 2 and beyond). Very impressive, I wish they allowed fully customisable Gunner in my region.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1jVuPRhaDs

If you read this San, maybe you should consider changing your UpSpecial. The gimps on your recovery didnt seem worth the upb2 utility.

 

[AEMehr]

Here's some Gunner play from San which people should see (game 2 and beyond). Very impressive, I wish they allowed fully customisable Gunner in my region.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1jVuPRhaDs

If you read this San, maybe you should consider changing your UpSpecial. The gimps on your recovery didnt seem worth the upb2 utility.

Why have I never watched this?????

Wow San! I wish I could use the Fair mobility as well as you do, I want to be as lame as you.
A shame the venue I currently go to only allows default height / weight on top of 1111. It's going to use EVO's ruleset after CEO ends, so I'll finally be allowed to use the customs and stuff against new players (though i'm not a big fan of the appearance of the gunner's height because it makes her look sick :U).

Also, yesterday I played as Donald Trump and an experimental robot he funded to help with his campaign next year. Made ninth again! Last time I did it as Roy and that same Robot, though with 32 entrants as opposed to 40. Looking forward to practicing with a smaller Mii again with the good ol' 3312 moveset. Also planning on learning Default Brawler so I can feel comfortable with all three of them. A guy suggested me to change my tag to Mii Player, which is actually a pretty great tag now that I think about it lol.

 

[Earthbound360]

Yo guys, I need to ask, is there anyone out there willing to do frame data testing on Mii Gunner's moves? I have some testing I wanna do with some things, but I need frames.

(Btw, it's Mik! here)

 

[GS3K]

Is this any good? Pulled it from : http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8

Jab1
Frame 5- 6: 2% 30b/50g 60°
Frame 5- 6: 2% 30b/50g 65°
Frame 5- 6: 2% 30b/50g 94°
Max Damage: 2%
Enables transition to next jab state on real frame 12

Jab2
Frame 4- 5: 2% 38b/28g 45°
Frame 4- 5: 2% 38b/28g 70°
Frame 4- 5: 2% 38b/28g 83°
Max Damage: 4%
Enables transition to next jab state on real frame 13

Jab3
Frame 7- 9: 1% 100f/20w 90° 0.0-Hitlag
Frame 7- 9: 1% 100f/20w 350° 0.0-Hitlag
Frame 14-15: 4% 40b/110g (KO@ 294%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag
Frame 14-15: 4% 40b/110g (KO@ 294%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag Fire
Max Damage: 9%

Dash Attack
Frame 10-14: 10% 80b/70g (KO@ 212%) 60°
Frame 10-14: 10% 80b/70g (KO@ 212%) 60° Fire
Max Damage: 10%

F-tilt (normal)
Frame 10-11: 9% 30b/100g (KO@ 184%) 361°
Frame 12-13: 7.5% 30b/100g (KO@ 215%) 361°
Frame 14-15: 6% 30b/100g (KO@ 259%) 361°
Max Damage: 9%

U-tilt
Frame 5- 5: 10% 50b/100g (KO@ 159%) 95° Fire
Frame 5- 9: 9% 50b/80g (KO@ 221%) 90° Fire
Frame 6- 9: 8% 50b/70g (KO@ 282%) 95° Fire
Max Damage: 10%

D-tilt
Frame 8-10: 14% 80b/60g (KO@ 155%) 80° 0.2-Trip Fire
Max Damage: 14%

F-smash (normal)
Frame 17-38: [0.8%]x6 100f/5w 10° 0.66-Hitlag 0.7-SDI
Frame 17-38: [0.8%]x6 100f/5w 80° 0.66-Hitlag 0.7-SDI
Frame 40-40: 5% 30b/193g (KO@ 153%) 45° 3.0-Hitlag 0.0-SDI
Max Damage: 9.8%
Smash charge window on real frame 6

U-smash
Frame 11-12: 3% 70b/25g 110° 1.2-SDI Fire Ground-Target-Only
Frame 11-12: 3% 70b/25g 110° 1.2-SDI Fire
Frame 11-12: 3% 40b/25g 180° 1.2-SDI Fire
Frame 11-12: 3% 30b/25g 110° 1.2-SDI Fire Aerial-Target-Only
Frame 15-16: 2.5% 55b/25g 150° 1.2-SDI Fire
Frame 15-16: 2.5% 30b/25g 180° 1.2-SDI Fire
Frame 19-20: 2.5% 50b/25g 180° 1.2-SDI Fire
Frame 19-20: 2.5% 30b/25g 240° 1.2-SDI Fire
Frame 23-24: 2.5% 40b/25g 220° 1.2-SDI Fire
Frame 23-24: 2.5% 30b/25g 280° 1.2-SDI Fire
Frame 27-28: 6% 50b/150g (KO@ 151%) 90° 1.2-SDI Fire
Max Damage: 16.5%
Smash charge window on real frame 8

D-smash
Frame 9- 9: 4% 100f/130w 164° 0.0-SDI Fire
Frame 9- 9: 4% 100f/110w 164° 0.0-SDI Fire
Frame 9- 9: 4% 100f/90w 164° 0.0-SDI Fire
Frame 23-25: 10% 60b/105g (KO@ 138%) 130° Fire
Max Damage: 14%
Smash charge window on real frame 6

Nair
Frame 8-21: 6% 45b/80g (KO@ 292%) 361°
Max Damage: 6%
Enables transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 4
Cancels transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 35

Fair
Enables transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 1
Article generated on real frame 10
Cancels transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 47

Bair
Frame 9-10: 12% 42b/88g (KO@ 146%) 361° Fire
Frame 9-10: 12% 30b/88g (KO@ 160%) 361° Fire
Max Damage: 12%
Enables transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 4
Cancels transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 32

Uair
Frame 17-17: 1% 100f/45w 140° 0.8-SDI
Frame 18-37: [1%]x7 100f/25w 96° 0.8-SDI Ground-Target-Only
Frame 18-37: [1%]x7 100f/25w 130° 0.8-SDI Aerial-Target-Only
Frame 18-37: [1%]x7 100f/25w 366° 0.8-SDI Aerial-Target-Only
Frame 39-39: 3% 40b/170g (KO@ 253%) 72° 0.8-SDI
Max Damage: 10%
Enables transition to Uair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 11
Cancels transition to Uair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 60

Dair
Frame 20-20: 15% 30b/90g (KO@ 123%) 361° Fire Ground-Target-Only
Frame 20-20: 15% 2b/90g (KO@ 207%) 270° Fire Aerial-Target-Only
Frame 20-20: 10% 30b/90g (KO@ 186%) 361°
Max Damage: 15%
Enables transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 4
Cancels transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 54

Grab
Frame 6- 7: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 8

Dash Grab
Frame 8- 9: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 10

Pivot Grab
Frame 9-10: Grab
Enables state transition on real frame 11

Pummel
Frame 5- 5: 2% 100f/30w 361°
Max Damage: 2%

F-throw
Frame 1- 9: 3% 42b/130g (KO@ 312%) 45°
Frame 10-11: 2%(+1) 100f/140w 48°
Max Damage: 5%

B-throw
Frame 1- 2: 2% 80b/56g (KO@ 676%) 45°
Max Damage: 2%
Article generated on real frame 20

U-throw
Frame 1- 2: 2% 75b/53g (KO@ 789%) 90°
Max Damage: 2%
Article generated on real frame 18

D-throw
Frame 1- 2: 5% 95b/50g (KO@ 399%) 100°
Max Damage: 5%

Gunner Charge?
Article generated on real frame 4

Gunner Charge?
Article generated on real frame 1

Flame Pillar?
Article generated on real frame 21

Stealth Burst (ground)?
Enables state transition on real frame 29

Stealth Burst (aerial)?
Enables state transition on real frame 23

Lunar Launch
Article generated on real frame 12
Enables state transition on real frame 12
Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 14

Cannon Uppercut (ascent)
Frame 1- 7: 8% 50b/128g (KO@ 151%) 80° 2.0-Hitlag
Frame 8-22: 6% 50b/128g (KO@ 151%) 80° 2.0-Hitlag
Max Damage: 8%
Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 8
Enables all ledge grabs on real frame 27

Cannon Uppercut (startup)
Frame 11-12: 9% 5b/80g (KO@ 373%) 270° 2.5-Hitlag Fire Aerial-Target-Only
Frame 11-12: 9% 60b/70g (KO@ 250%) 110° 2.0-Hitlag Fire Ground-Target-Only
Max Damage: 9%

Echo Reflector (ground)
Frame 3- 4: 2% 60b/30g 10° Electric Ground-Target-Only
Frame 3- 4: 2% 60b/30g 60° Electric Aerial-Target-Only
Max Damage: 2%

Echo Reflector (aerial)
Frame 3- 4: 2% 60b/30g 10° Electric Ground-Target-Only
Frame 3- 4: 2% 60b/30g 60° Electric Aerial-Target-Only
Max Damage: 2%

unknown substate 0x249
Article generated on real frame 14

Bomb Drop
Frame 1- 2: 0% 100f/30w 361° 0.0-Hitlag 0.0-SDI

unknown substate 0x253
Article generated on real frame 1
Article generated on real frame 1

**********
END miigunner

BEGIN miigunner_attackairf_bullet
**********
Fair
Frame 1- 4: 6% 35b/110g (KO@ 238%) 45°
Frame 5- 6: 4% 50b/80g (KO@ 441%) 70°
Max Damage: 6%

**********
END miigunner_attackairf_bullet

BEGIN miigunner_bottomshoot
**********
Lunar Launch
Frame 1- 2: 7% 50b/100g (KO@ 230%) 70° Fire
Max Damage: 7%

**********
END miigunner_bottomshoot

BEGIN miigunner_flamepillar
**********
Flame Pillar (on-hit)
Frame 1- 2: 4% 40b/80g (KO@ 453%) 80° 0.0-SDI Fire
Max Damage: 4%

Flame Pillar (burn)
Frame 1- 2: 6% 40b/70g (KO@ 367%) 45° 1.5-Hitlag Fire
Max Damage: 6%

**********
END miigunner_flamepillar

BEGIN miigunner_fullthrottle
**********
Final Smash
Frame 1-139: [1%(+1)]x35 100f/36w 35° 0.5-SDI
Frame 141-142: 4%(+10) 40b/155g (KO@ 172%) 361° Electric Unblockable
Max Damage: 39%

**********
END miigunner_fullthrottle

BEGIN miigunner_grenadelauncher
**********
Grenade Launch (on-hit)
Frame 1- 2: 0% 5b/0g 361° 0.3-Hitlag Explosion

Grendae Launch (explosion)
Frame 1-17: [0.5%]x4 30b/10g 160° 0.3-Hitlag Fire
Frame 18-19: 6% 20b/160g (KO@ 196%) 55° 0.6-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Fire
Max Damage: 8%

**********
END miigunner_grenadelauncher

BEGIN miigunner_groundbomb
**********
Bomb Drop (on-hit)
Frame 11-12: 2%(+6) 70b/50g (KO@ 778%) 361° Fire
Max Damage: 2%

Bomb Drop (explosion)
Frame 1- 2: 9%(+6) 70b/80g (KO@ 207%) 66° Fire
Max Damage: 9%

**********
END miigunner_groundbomb

BEGIN miigunner_gunnercharge
**********
Gunner Charge
Frame 1- 2: 22% 20b/64g (KO@ 140%) 50° 0.7-Hitlag Electric
Frame 1- 2: 3% 14b/42g 361° 0.5-Hitlag Electric
Max Damage: 22%

**********
END miigunner_gunnercharge

BEGIN miigunner_laser
**********
Final Smash
Frame 1-140: [1.5%(+1)]x18 100f/16w 30°
Frame 142-149: 4%(+30) 65b/180g (KO@ 117%) 361° Electric Unblockable
Max Damage: 31%

**********
END miigunner_laser

BEGIN miigunner_miimissile
**********
Gunner Missile (normal)
Frame 1- 2: 4.5%(+1) 26b/22g 0° Fire
Max Damage: 4.5%

**********
END miigunner_miimissile

BEGIN miigunner_rapidshot_bullet
**********
Lazer Blaze
Frame 1- 2: 3.6% 100f/3w 361°
Frame 3- 4: 2.6% 100f/3w 361°
Max Damage: 3.6%

Bthrow Projectile
Frame 1- 2: 4% 20b/160g (KO@ 230%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag
Frame 3- 4: 3% 20b/160g (KO@ 230%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag
Max Damage: 4%

UThrow Projectile
Frame 1- 2: 4% 40b/150g (KO@ 235%) 89° 2.0-Hitlag
Frame 3- 4: 3% 40b/150g (KO@ 235%) 89° 2.0-Hitlag
Max Damage: 4%

**********
END miigunner_rapidshot_bullet

BEGIN miigunner_stealthbomb_s
**********
Stealth Burst (non-zero min charge)
Frame 1- 1: 7% 20b/95g (KO@ 301%) 65° Fire
Max Damage: 7%

**********
END miigunner_stealthbomb_s

BEGIN miigunner_supermissile
**********
Gunner Missile (super)
Frame 1- 2: 10%(+5) 50b/65g (KO@ 273%) 65° Fire
Max Damage: 10%

**********
END miigunner_supermissile

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I have a capture card, but there's already lots of data here. However, there's a note that says blue numbers are unconfirmed and based on a calculation (probably fine but eh).

top row is: First active frame | ending frame small; med; large | active frames; number of active frames | priority | charge frame | release to hit duration | landing lag window small; med; large | Landing lag small; med large

left most column: jab | Ftilt | up tilt | Dtilt | Fsmash | up smash | down smash | dash attack | nair | fair | bair | up air | dair | standing grab; dash grab; pivot grab; (idk) | special stuff (it's kinda bare and I'm not sure what's listed for specials regardless)

◯ normal priority
× transcendent

If there's something more I can help with ask me some specifics. I probably wont be back on tonight tho.

 

[Earthbound360]

Thanks, both useful, though a bit lacking in some places I would hope to be a bit more clear (first post doesn't have endlag, second is really, really confusing >.<).

I kinda wanna test the endlag of dtilt vs. dsmash, mostly on shield. Wanna see which is safer (kinda hard to tell for me just visually). I wanna know because I've been doing a lot of gun dashing into dsmash for KOs, but from my brief testing, I've noticed that dtilt will KO before dsmash depending on how far you are from the sides. Also, you seem to slide during gun dash into dtilt, but not for dsmash.

Dsmash has more range though.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Dtilt is better than the first hit of Down smash, but not the 2nd hit. Although sliding probably makes Dtilt safer.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Don't get to accustomed to using custom mini gunner cause we all know customs will die after Evo sadly.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

We don't know if that'll happen or if the Miis will keep their sets, but I guess it's something to think about.

 

[GS3K]

I just hope people will calm down and just let things unfold before dooming customs based on a few problematic ones.