Q&A 'Guin Saga (DDD General/Q&A thread)

[br8k]

HELLO AGAIN DEAD BOARDS. Dedede more like Deadede. Dedeade. Dededead. Deadeadea.

Does down-throw exist solely to combo into side-tilt? And maybe to dump people off the edge for gimping? Does inhale have any function besides suicides and, I dunno, using the grab armor as a sort of counterattack against certain moves? Why do the vast majority of Dedede's attacks have roughly the same 45 degree knockback angle? :V

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Dthrow can also combo into down-B and sometimes grab on DI in, which you can use as a DI mix-up with fthrow by the edge if the opponent can't react to dthrow/fthrow. Other than that, it's a good throw for tech-chasing.

 

[MrBigstuff]

This guy's fun. Tell me why he's bad, then tell me why I should play him anyway.

 

[Shaya]

D3 in the most recent patch feels a lot stronger. Back throw seems to be killing, utilt seems to be hitting and bair kills too, crazy.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Are we talking about 3.0? Because DDD can do all of that in 2.6b. Unless they buffed back throw, which would be really nice because it throws people far enough away anyway that you can't combo them at any percent.

 

[inditled]

Alright, how do you get that angle where the waddle dees go right infront of d3. I see it used a lot off stage to waddle dash back to the stage.
I almost always end up throwing them waddle dees too far forward or too high up

 

[9bit]

You have to use a "soft-throw" for it. Basically a tilt instead of a smash when you hit B. The easiest way to do that is to just be holding toward the stage like you naturally would, and press B when you're ready, then angle your control stick upward while you're in the throwing animation. Next use a aerial jump to get yourself in line with the Waddle.

And pray to RNGeezus that it's not a Gordo!

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

so in 3.0, according to the changelist, fsmash's meteor hitbox now only affects grounded opponents. Because DDD needed nerfing I guess.

 

[MrBigstuff]

Because obviously the one longest startup moves in the game was far too easy to land.

 

[ItalianStallion]

I was very surprised at the DDD changes. Here's to hoping the cleaning up of fair's hitboxes is something to compensate for DDD's loss.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

what DDD needs is mobility changes not nerfs on slow moves and animation cleanups

Literally fsmash, grab range, and fair were some of DDD's only redeeming values, and the only tools that made him semi-viable. Nerfing one of those isn't going to do anything to help his overall linearity issues and viability

 

[ItalianStallion]

what DDD needs is mobility changes not nerfs on slow moves and animation cleanups

Literally fsmash, grab range, and fair were some of DDD's only redeeming values, and the only tools that made him semi-viable. Nerfing one of those isn't going to do anything to help his overall linearity issues and viability

I agree. It is an odd change to make, considering he's been at the bottom five of most tier lists for a while.

It seems they fixed shield pushback though. Could that possibly help DDD's game with more reliable shield grabs? Or perhaps other changed mechanics that could play into the penguin's favor?

 

[KingOfNothing]

what DDD needs is mobility changes not nerfs on slow moves and animation cleanups

Literally fsmash, grab range, and fair were some of DDD's only redeeming values, and the only tools that made him semi-viable. Nerfing one of those isn't going to do anything to help his overall linearity issues and viability

Absolutely agreed, I am also disappointed that Dedede has only received nerfs after him being widely considered one of the worst characters in the game.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

- Forward Smash’s meteor hitbox now only hits grounded targets
- Forward air’s hitboxes were cleaned up and polished to match the animation better
- Aerial Up B no longer has medium armor. Grounded Up B medium armor starts and ends much sooner

And now his recovery has less armor so that's cool. I mean one of DDD's weaknesses is his recovery so making it worse will only make DDD more balanced, right? Right?

 

[Shaya]

Dedede in 2.6 was actually really strong. I don't think they intended fsmash to be used as a dumb/relatively useless against smart people edgeguarder, the goal of it was to knock people slightly into the air so you could bash them up. His forward air is literally one of the best moves in the game (like, there aren't better fairs in the game bar bowser), what were the hitbox changes?

Nerf to the recovery is awkward, but it probably got overbuffed from last patch slightly.

 

[KingOfNothing]

Dedede in 2.6 was actually really strong. I don't think they intended fsmash to be used as a dumb/relatively useless against smart people edgeguarder, the goal of it was to knock people slightly into the air so you could bash them up. His forward air is literally one of the best moves in the game (like, there aren't better fairs in the game bar bowser), what were the hitbox changes?

Nerf to the recovery is awkward, but it probably got overbuffed from last patch slightly.

Well, his main issue was dealing with projectives and faster characters.
Fsmash actually was very useful as an edgeguard move, DDD has other options though I suppose.
The recovery nerf doesnt make any sense. His up b really wasnt that good (slow, obvious, easy to hit hit out of it).
His problems werent made any better (considered worst character by many). However, what ItalianStallion makes a bit of sense.

says*
(can i edit my posts? Doesnt allow me too)

 

[Shaya]

You have to unfortunately go into the more options part. No quick edits allowed

In terms of his weaknesses, the D3's have been getting better at dealing with them (learning powershielding timing for more projectiles + their nerfs + growing waddle meta). His losing match ups are the one's which most consider top tier/broken/******** as it is. His sheer uselessness on large stages is still a notable problem. I like that his niche is ripping apart all the kinda-super-dumb grapplers (DK, Bowser, Ganon, etc) and being pretty strong on the melee-neutrals.

In terms of recovery... he's got an instant ledge snap mechanic, very low lag landing if cancelled in a timely fashion (both being great for edge guarding), lives to 200% and gets quite a lot of horizontal distance recovering high.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Dedede in 2.6 was actually really strong. I don't think they intended fsmash to be used as a dumb/relatively useless against smart people edgeguarder, the goal of it was to knock people slightly into the air so you could bash them up. His forward air is literally one of the best moves in the game (like, there aren't better fairs in the game bar bowser), what were the hitbox changes?

Nerf to the recovery is awkward, but it probably got overbuffed from last patch slightly.

it didn't get that buffed, it was actually in a comfy balance

i just don't understand the nerfs, he's one of the worst and most linear characters in the game, not to mention how polarizing he is with his recovery, he reminds me of Falcon but without the movement, the 4 viable aerials that can actually lead to some other things, and well i just don't get it

i was actually hoping for some new mechanic, or some buffs that would end the DDD comparison that he's basically the very fat and huge personification of gimping

 

[Shaya]

Well if my conversation with PM devs (Jcaesar and 1 other [sorry I forgot your name ]) a few months ago just prior to 2.6 mean anything, when I asked them to buff Dedede their reply was "he's able to win in competitive PM regions" (referencing some recent win of somebody) and hence implications. Making bair and bthrow kill + armor on up b were pretty good things to get even when their opinion was that he was strong.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Well if my conversation with PM devs (Jcaesar and 1 other [sorry I forgot your name ]) a few months ago just prior to 2.6 mean anything, when I asked them to buff Dedede their reply was "he's able to win in competitive PM regions" (referencing some recent win of somebody) and hence implications. Making bair and bthrow kill + armor on up b were pretty good things to get even when their opinion was that he was strong.

*sigh* welp, hope they're right

guess i'll just have to wait and get to use him myself

still though, nerfing up-b?

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

He's able to win because of matchup inexperience. But whateva no more spike fsmashes for me I guess.

lol jcaesar is just salty because he almost got beat by a DDD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3p26NgGlJU

 

[9bit]

I was really hoping they'd do a little to improve DDD's mobility. I posted some stuff somewhere about making Waddle dashing a little better, but whatever.

Still love you King Dedede, even though the announcer doesn't call you "King" anymore

 

[MattNF]

welp, DDD got nerfed in 3.0.

 

[MagnesD3]

Why no buffs (((

 

[Plum]

Shield pushback is such a huge buff to DDD.
The list of things he can punish with grabs just got a lot longer.
Fsmash nerf I'm fine with. It was kind of silly, and it's not like DDD suddenly doesn't have some of the best edgeguarding options anyways. His Fair and Bair are both insanely strong offstage options.

 

[Shaya]

tl;dr sounds like he's fine, if not better. Ya gotta be league of legends about this stuff.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

So he's not a King anymore?
All the other nerfs I'm okay with (I guess) but not recognizing his Lordship will not stand!

 

[g-regulate]

Can anyone go into detail what "cleaning up" DDD's fair means?

 

[PastLink]

but the meteor on air opponents was great for getting easy kills on opponents with, you know linear recovery (looking at you spacies) he really didn't need it taken...

 

[Plum]

You know what's also great for punishing linear recoveries? Just going off stage and hitting them with your insanely good Fair.

 

[Shaya]

FF bair is also ludicrous.

My favourite off stage tricksies combo is

Waddle Toss upwards (not necessarily aiming to hit them) > ff nair > they're knocked up into the falling and active hitbox waddle > fair or bair.

glorious.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I had a friend who wasn't very happy about the D3 "nerfs" and was curious about the thoughts of you D3 players about them.

His FSmash not meteoring anymore when someone is on the ledge or trying to get up is a welcome change as far as I'm concerned. It promoted a reliance on Fsmash edge guards instead of getting out there with his fantastic aerial edge guarding game or being more creative overall.

As far as his recovery nerf, I always thought it was a little silly that he had any armor at all on his. I was under the assumption that he'd only had a hitbox and didn't get an armored recovery with good range. It always seemed a little silly that he could come back from so deep with very little risk because of that armor. Even Bowser has a ridiculously gimpable UpB, despite it's armor (If it even has armor still, I don't remember.)

I understand a lot of complaints regarding the "But D3 was low tier, he doesn't need nerfs", but oftentimes it seems to amount to "He needs this or he insta-sucks." He might be a little less simplistic, but with some creativity, he can definitely show that he's got some value. A guy this heavy, with floaty recovery and massive hitboxes on just about everything can't be that bad.

 

[9bit]

I don't mind the "nerfs" he got for 3.0, they're fine. But not one single buff... No acknowledgement of his glaring weaknesses as a character. No attempt to Melee-ify him more.

The explanation they gave was "he can win tournaments." This is true but I think a lot of people dislike the way he wins tournaments, the way he has to play in order to succeed. People have been complaining for a while about how he's too linear and still plays too much like a Brawl character. Unfortunately it may take a total overhaul of the character in order to fix that, and a lot of people who play DDD wouldn't like that.

Whatever, I still enjoy playing him. I can still get wins and I don't feel like he has impossible matchups. I just wish he had more options to vary his playstyle, to mix it up a little.

 

[trash?]

DDD is kind of a painfully bad character, possibly not fully in terms of balance, but ABSOLUTELY in terms of design + it's kind of a shame that it's not acknowledged at all

 

[MrBigstuff]

To be fair, shield knockback was a huge buff for DeDeDe, probably more than most other characters.

 

[g-regulate]

I personally don't see a lot of weaknesses in DDDs character design, I've devoted lots of time to him and feel that he has good answers to many situations, it just requires the use of many different playstyles at different times. I'm a long time melee player so, working out counter strategies may just come a little easier to me.

 

[9bit]

I saw some of your DDD at Xanadu and it was beautiful man.

Also I used to watch you waaaaay back in the day xD

 

[Met]

g-reg your ddd is too good.
Also why no extra dedede colors with this patch...... no one loves the D

 

[MagnesD3]

g-reg your ddd is too good.
Also why no extra dedede colors with this patch...... no one loves the D

It's becuz there is only 1 color, the white pimp coat.

 

[g-regulate]

my DDD has been an infant, only reaching young toddler status as of late..... but I'm still practicing!! Always finding out new strats and techs.

I suggest everyone on these boards do the same. Have to remember that this game is VERY new. I will always relate the "meta" to melee, because I can remember what melee was like in the first couple years of existence and it is NOTHING like it is now... This game is no different, don't be too hurried to make claims on weaknesses or that a character needs "buffs" to be viable.... All it really takes is dedication and discipline in your playstyle.

Melee never needed "patches".... just smarter play
Characters aren't bad, only players