Guide for a Quicker Ike... HELP NEEDED

[Arzengel]

Hey there. Well Ike is my 2nd player. I've been taunted to switch to Marth, cause he's not that good. Still... i wanna defy that!!

I wanna use Ike as my 2nd, still he's kinda slow... very slow... But i've seen some PROs actually make him move alot quicker than usual.

I'm guessing its the good use of FFs and Auto-cancellings, still i am not sure, and cannot seem to perform these, i'm always left wide open after an attack.

Any tips, Any useful At's that could help on this matter.

Thanks a bundle.

 

[san.]

Next time, I suggest posting in Ashunera's Library sticky, where you can ask all the questions you want and hopefully get an answer.

No ATs that I know of, but there are ways to make Ike seem faster.

This is through the use of fast falls, buffered/shield cancelled dashes, platform use, and quick/autocancelled aerials.

1. Platforms.

This is the easiest way to make Ike seem fast. Ike moves faster vertically than horizontally, so running off platforms and fast falling is great. Once you land, you can dash in any direction. Ike falls quite fast, which is a +.

Ike can QD to platforms without receiving hardly any landing lag, especially if you can QD to a platform's corner/edge. Immediately fast fall(+air dodge if you want), or walk off nair if need be or whatever.

2. Aerials

You can short hop bair and full hop fair and up air with no landing lag, and use nair just about anywhere with very little landing lag.

When you space, you want to fast fall your fair most of the time. Nair you can either fast fall or not depending on if you predict a dodge. Nair zoning and bair helps Ike look quick, but watch out, if you miss bair, ike can be hit before he lands by some characters, so watch your spacing.

3. Shield cancelled dashes

Dash and HOLD FORWARD on the control stick. Shield. Done =)
This lets Ike jab or space aerials immediately afterwards. It helps Ike move and jab as fast as possible. You might not want to shield if you want to do a sudden retreating aerial, though.


Fast falling when possible and adequate, and buffering dashes and utilizing your aerials in a smart manner can help you with slowness problem. This was just a basic description so there's plenty of mixups and stuff once you get used to some of these things.

 

[Sameyu]

Using Quick Draw at the right time works well too.

 

[EmblemPrincess]

^Both these guys are right.

Using Quick Draw at the right time will take practice though, because its endlag is horrible. Quick Draw Cancel is your answer. Quick Draw right to the person, then follow up with a standard A combo. Aether and smash attacks sometimes work as well, I've noticed.

 

[Marauder]

^Both these guys are right.

Using Quick Draw at the right time will take practice though, because its endlag is horrible. Quick Draw Cancel is your answer. Quick Draw right to the person, then follow up with a standard A combo. Aether and smash attacks sometimes work as well, I've noticed.

Yeah...not so much. Aether really is used at random by most people cuz if that misses, you're usually ****ed. Ike's smashes are slow as hell man.

 

[EmblemPrincess]

I meant as follow ups to Quick Draw Cancel, and besides I said SOMETIMES.

 

[san.]

Never aether or QD on the ground like that. It just won't work. Jump+QD to platforms is really its only decent use, and even then... =/

 

[EmblemPrincess]

Actually, Aether can do wonders on the ground against some characters. It's a good counter against pretty much any move going straight down for Ike from above, like Link and TL's dair. It's also a good follow up to down throw and up throw.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Actually, Aether can do wonders on the ground against some characters. It's a good counter against pretty much any move going straight down for Ike from above, like Link and TL's dair. It's also a good follow up to down throw and up throw.

No, it's WAY to situational. By the time you see the dair, you are going to get hit before aether shoots up.

And WHY would anyone do that high enough you could hit them? And why not charge up Usmash instead?

 

[EmblemPrincess]

What? :/

I've countered Link and TL's dair with Aether many times in matches. Usmash is too slow most of the time. Trust me, I've attempted that too.

 

[Kimchi]

Actually, Aether can do wonders on the ground against some characters. It's a good counter against pretty much any move going straight down for Ike from above, like Link and TL's dair. It's also a good follow up to down throw and up throw.

Actually, Aether is a horrible follow up to down throw and up throw, especially if the opponent DIs to the left or right.

 

[EmblemPrincess]

^They never do that quick enough to escape mine, especially at low percent damage.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What? :/

I've countered Link and TL's dair with Aether many times in matches. Usmash is too slow most of the time. Trust me, I've attempted that too.

Then you are doing it wrong, and playing bad brawlers.

 

[comboking]

What? :/

I've countered Link and TL's dair with Aether many times in matches. Usmash is too slow most of the time. Trust me, I've attempted that too.

Or you could shield or why not UpTilt. Have you heard of shielding?

 

[Persona]

I agree with some points here. Only bad TL's and Link's would use dair at obvious times, but I do agree that usmash is far too slow to be a counter to such a move. I may be called a bad Ike for doing this, but I either use Aether, or shield, to defend against airborne assaults.

 

[Persona]

Actually, Aether is a horrible follow up to down throw and up throw, especially if the opponent DIs to the left or right.

Agreed. Following up a down throw or up throw with Aether is an obvious combo, and most players will DI out of the range.

 

[Palpi]

Don't even try to do it...ever.

The best thing you can do from a d-throw is to try to mindgames a HYPHEN SMASH and it still is pretty bad and punishable. Kirk does that a lot if it is around 0% because anything really past that you can follow your throws, bthrow or fthrow, with a dash attack.

 

[Melfice z]

But...but... i always use that D: i wait a split second to confirm if DI is used or not and it usually isnt atleast once a set for me

 

[Palpi]

It is not worth it. Really.

 

[Nysyarc]

Yah, the thing is, even if they don't DI perfectly out of the throw, they can DI out of the aether and punish you as you land if their character is fast enough. I never use uthrow, and I rarely use dthrow. In fact the only times I use dthrow is to try and mindgame an usmash or fsmash at low %s (high %s they fly too far), or if I'm struggling to finish someone off, it can KO most characters at around 160% on FD, unless they DI really good, but that situation rarely comes up.

Really the only throws you should be doing are your bthrow and fthrow, because they have guaranteed follow-ups with a dash attack. Always remember to pummel too, you can never rack up too much damage.

 

[Teh Brettster]

.. Fthrow has a guaranteed dash attack?

Guaranteed?

When?

 

[stingers]

Dthrow is worth at high %s...if you can read their falling airdodges and jumps, you get a free usmash out of it. Just takes some skill and luck that they don't go for the ledge

If they go for the ledge then...doesn't really matter, anyway.

 

[Marauder]

Dthrow can be used, just nowhere near as much as Fthrow and Bthrow. Dthrow really should only be used at high %s to take the stock. At early %s, you can mindgame people with it and follow up with either a Bair or Uair. Maybe Usmash. But it really shouldn't be used that much.

Fthrow/Bthrow->Pivot grab is fun to catch people with though lol

 

[Nysyarc]

.. Fthrow has a guaranteed dash attack?

Guaranteed?

When?

Oh, I guess I worded that poorly. I just meant it's guaranteed at later %s for bthrow, and fthrow can be followed up with a dash attack. I like to mix them up though rather than just going with bthrow.

 

[LuLLo]

D-throw I only use against inexperience opponents on low % to follow up Aether (sometimes) or to just mindgame them into Jabs or U-smash/tilt. B-throw for a dash chase OR Quick Draw when they put their shield up (and they will, since they expect a dash-attack most of the time), which puts them in a nasty situation. F-throw to get them of the edge or just to mindgame them into the common stuff. Never use U-throw, the other throws (even D-throw) are FAR better. Only use it if you're so manly that you don't care.

Now, I play my Ike pretty quick, sometimes my opponents (ie friends) look amazed at how little lag Ike has, but Ike himself has LOTS of lag, it's just all about using the lowest lag attacks (Autocancel B-air, Jab, N-air and Fastfalled F-airs) and mindgaming your opponent, because if you have them where you want them to be, you don't need speed. That's why the ''pros'' look so quick, since they play pretty safe and have control over their character and to a limit the opponent's character.

 

[Palpi]

lol @ aether follow up.

D-throw is good for a possible U-smash follow up if you can bait their aid-dodge and they don't just decide to jump and punish you. F-throw can lead into Dash attack as B-throw can. What is a dash chase? lol

F-throw > Dash Attack is not guarenteed, its % range is smaller then b-throw because of bthrow IASA frames. F-throw is good especially against a character witha gimpable recovery because you don't have to use a back throw that wouldn't put them off stage. Though very situational both bthrow and fthrow do work, but bthrow works much more.

 

[HeroMystic]

Jesus Christ...

^Both these guys are right.

Using Quick Draw at the right time will take practice though, because its endlag is horrible. Quick Draw Cancel is your answer. Quick Draw right to the person, then follow up with a standard A combo. Aether and smash attacks sometimes work as well, I've noticed.

This has already been addressed but... wtf @ Aether. Also, don't use Smash Attacks for quick draw follow-ups. Ike's Tilts are far better, especially F-Tilt which is basically a Smash Attack anyways.

Yeah...not so much. Aether really is used at random by most people cuz if that misses, you're usually ****ed. Ike's smashes are slow as hell man.

Aether shouldn't be used at random, especially on the ground. The only time I use Aether on the ground is if my opponent is an idiot that wouldn't make it through the first brackets of a tourney.

Actually, Aether can do wonders on the ground against some characters. It's a good counter against pretty much any move going straight down for Ike from above, like Link and TL's dair. It's also a good follow up to down throw and up throw.

I've throught the same thing when I was a newbie, but D-throw -> Aether is horrible unless it's at 0% and on heavy characters. DI really makes this combo unviable.

I agree with some points here. Only bad TL's and Link's would use dair at obvious times, but I do agree that usmash is far too slow to be a counter to such a move. I may be called a bad Ike for doing this, but I either use Aether, or shield, to defend against airborne assaults.

Shield is fine... Aether no. By the way, U-Smash is still usable. Just do a Hyphen Smash.

Dthrow is worth at high %s...if you can read their falling airdodges and jumps, you get a free usmash out of it. Just takes some skill and luck that they don't go for the ledge

If they go for the ledge then...doesn't really matter, anyway.

If they go for the ledge you got F-air, F-Smash, B-air, and Eruption... most especially Eruption.

 

[The Golden Ike]

Theres only 3 times Aether is actually useful.

1) Recovery (duh), it also usually gets them away from the edge (DO NOT try it against Marth, Ike, or anyone good with Meteors. You'll be punished into death or tortured by parry.

2) Idiocy. When you realize your opponent have a tendency to use the second jump after being knocked of the edge/away you can usually get an Aether ready as a follow-up. (I don't know why but people always jump into the Aether).

3) When you realize your enemy isn't a very good DI'er Aether can actually be a good follow-up to an up/down throw sometimes.

 

[Melomaniacal]

But in any real competitive environment any knowledgeable player knows how to hold in a direction. (@#3)

Don't use aether for anything but recovering. Pretty much.