Gravity Mod / Brawl+ Competitive Code Suggestions and Analysis

[Quail Man]

The purpose isn't even for Brawl+ to be a tourny standard.

We just want to build a metagame with these new additions.

Was the thread creator referring specifically to your project, or just the list of hacks that your project is using? If it was the later (it was), then your statement is irrelevant because it refers to your project, not this one.

 

[K1T3]

<3 5ive, now we need to all make this game great =) If you have any other ideas that you think or good or find new reasons why some of the presented ideas are bad please let me know so I can test them out.

I am very excited about this game, like everyone was at the first mention to brawl coming out. So I want to do everything I can to make this the best game possible and a game we can all enjoy for as many years as we did melee =)

Was the thread creator referring specifically to your project, or just the list of hacks that your project is using? If it was the later (it was), then your statement is irrelevant because it refers to your project, not this one.

Thx Quail, but we actually seem to have the same idea and goal in mind =)
I need to update the thread and first post with all the new things I have learned since getting the game and from everyone else in this thread and others.

I will probably organize the first post to list each code I propose should be included in the Brawl Player's Cut (=P) and it's advantages and disadvantages relative to the regular Brawl metagame and encourage discussion for other ideas of new things to add or why some of the things mentioned are bad.

 

[K1T3]

Update:

Alright I've been messing around with lots of gravity and dmg settings.
1.05 dmg doesn't quite do enough to Falco's chain grab which is devestating as he gets a spike at the edge and with the higher gravity living is much harder. 1.1 seems the way to go. I tested higher amounts to see if they would stop D3's chain or any of the gay infinites and have not found a solution yet. So I will suggest we go with the 1.1 dmg code.

I also tried out many different gravity settings. I should mention that none of the gravity settings really helped defeat unescapeable chains or infinites either, but if people do find that they do please let me know. I'm am currently torn between 1.15 and 1.25x gravity. 1.15 slows things down a bit compared to 1.25, Falcon for instance isn't nearly as decent with this figure, but recoveries are a ting bit better. Also Marth keeps his short hop double fair in 1.15, not that he needs it as he ***** pretty hard with the combination of all the new codes anyways. 1.25 on the other hand helps everything be quite fluid. Marth can only sh fair but if you fast fall it it's quite nice and his full hop double fair is quite **** and he can repeat it faster here. Falcon is sexy here. The only character who's recovery I would question in 1.25 vs 1.15 is bowsers, but even his isn't too bad. I am personally liking 1.25 better but I am perfectly willing to change this if people see a different setting as better and can explain why. I really wouldn't recommend anything less than 1.15 or greater than 1.25 though, so if people could test in that range and get back to me what they think is best it would be much appreciated.

Conclusion
1.1 for dmg mod
1.15-1.25 gravity mod

 

[poklin]

I agree that's what we have been using 1.25 gravity even on it bowser is sweet i was doing stuff off the stage and still getting on ^^ so it can't be that bad.

 

[leafgreen386]

Note: I have not tried out any gravity or damage adjustments yet, so this is all theory.

My problem with the damage mod is that it makes all attacks stronger... not just the upward sending ones. So the game would STILL favor horizontal sending moves over vertical sending moves. With brawl's current gravity, most horizontal sending moves can be DIed up to kill you off the top of the screen. I'm not sure how much of an impact the extra gravity will have on this, but if most moves are still able to be DIed to kill you off the top, then I suppose it would be ok, however, if more moves are killing off the side than the top, then the gravity is STILL greatly favoring the horizontal kill moves, and this "fix" does nothing to help that.

 

[K1T3]

Note: I have not tried out any gravity or damage adjustments yet, so this is all theory.

My problem with the damage mod is that it makes all attacks stronger... not just the upward sending ones. So the game would STILL favor horizontal sending moves over vertical sending moves. With brawl's current gravity, most horizontal sending moves can be DIed up to kill you off the top of the screen. I'm not sure how much of an impact the extra gravity will have on this, but if most moves are still able to be DIed to kill you off the top, then I suppose it would be ok, however, if more moves are killing off the side than the top, then the gravity is STILL greatly favoring the horizontal kill moves, and this "fix" does nothing to help that.

Here's the thing though in normal brawl if you can DI most horizontal kill moves to kill you off the top and verticle kill moves even DId, kill you off the top that makes almost all kill moves kill you off the top. This is an imbalance.
With the gravity horizontal kill moves can of course still be DId with great effect as can now Horizontal kill moves. I should make verticle kills and horizontal kills about the same with a new increased amount of kills coming from the bottom due to edge gaurding actually having an effect now. The increased dmg lets characters die a little easier so instead of dieing at say 200 they would die at 180. This over all speeds up the game and makes matches shorter.
Now, though, DI will actually matter as you must DI the outward sending move so that your character will be high and you can have an easier chance of making it back to the stage since edge gauring and dieing low is an option again. Missing the DI will now actually be punished as you will be lower and much easier to edge gaurd and have a harder time makeing it back.

 

[Problem2]

K1T3, have you been using a code to increase the damage ratio to 1.1? You do know that there is an option in the vs menu that can do it for you. The only thing having it in coding will do is allow you to carry it to the all 1P modes except for Subspace Emissary.

 

[leafgreen386]

So I've been testing with 1.25x gravity with both 1.0 and 1.1 damage ratios. The 1.1 damage ratio definitely seems to be better, although now I need to try a lower gravity setting and see how that plays. But with the increased gravity, everything feels so much more... natural. I can't really explain it better than that. The only problem I have with it is that certain moves (most notably ganon's and falcon's dairs of the ones I tried) can no longer finish in a short hop. I'm currently playing with s-canceling, so I'm not sure how detrimental that is when only half of the lag is cut.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

yea, i don't think gravity is the way to go guys. however, i 100% agree that 1.1 ratio is really awesome.

 

[K1T3]

K1T3, have you been using a code to increase the damage ratio to 1.1? You do know that there is an option in the vs menu that can do it for you. The only thing having it in coding will do is allow you to carry it to the all 1P modes except for Subspace Emissary.

Yeah I've been using the code. I knew it was in the menu but it's much easier to have it auto load with all the codes than having to go the the menu and change it every single time. Plus it's nice to have it in training mode so I can try stuff out.

So I've been testing with 1.25x gravity with both 1.0 and 1.1 damage ratios. The 1.1 damage ratio definitely seems to be better, although now I need to try a lower gravity setting and see how that plays. But with the increased gravity, everything feels so much more... natural. I can't really explain it better than that. The only problem I have with it is that certain moves (most notably ganon's and falcon's dairs of the ones I tried) can no longer finish in a short hop. I'm currently playing with s-canceling, so I'm not sure how detrimental that is when only half of the lag is cut.

It's true Ganons and falcon's Dair will no longer autocancel unless you start with a full hop but both are still fine with L canceling. You can sh falcons dair and L cancel it and still consecutive hit combo into a knee.

yea, i don't think gravity is the way to go guys. however, i 100% agree that 1.1 ratio is really awesome.

Have you tried different gravity settings or are you just saying that with no logical basis whatsoever?
If you have tried it could you please elaborate why it is no good? If it really isn't good I would like to know why that way I can stop supporting it as it would be a bad inclusion.

 

[Problem2]

Ok... you have a point, but what is the code for damage ratio? I was thinking about trying 1.08. 1.1 gets the job done but so many moves kill before 100% this way. I had it like that because it was for 1.5 gravity originally, but because 1.25 is so much better, the damage ratio may need some toning down as well.

EDIT: Disreguard this request. I found it in this thread lol.

 

[JacobWins]

Heavy mode+melee 2.0 is a lot more fun

 

[Problem2]

Link vs MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjvsX2XvJaE

I made a vid of Brawl+ with added Gravity. Looks pretty good but I could use some more work on my Link. ^_^

 

[Lawlb0t]

How about a removal of auto sweet spot ^_^

 

[Starscream]

I'm gonna go give these gravity and damage ratios a whirl but if we use both damage and gravity codes for players 1-4, we're very close to running out of code space.

With the following codes on we'll be at 220/256.

No tripping
Melee air dodge
L-canceling
Longer Replays (not necessary but removing this is still only 3 lines of code gone)
Current hit stun code
Gravity and damage ratio for players 1-4

 

[leafgreen386]

Hm... that's not good. It's looking like we might not be able to get all the customization we wanted... although maybe it will barely fit. Hopefully, anyway.

Anyway, after some testing, I found 1.175x gravity to be the best compromise (imo) between increasing gravity and not nerfing recoveries. I haven't started messing with damage ratio codes yet, though.

 

[MuBa]

What's the code for 1.175x Gravity?

Or just give me the modifier for it.

 

[leafgreen386]

Grav codes: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5648248&postcount=14

1.175x grav value: 3F966666

 

[Starscream]

Hm... that's not good. It's looking like we might not be able to get all the customization we wanted... although maybe it will barely fit. Hopefully, anyway.

Anyway, after some testing, I found 1.175x gravity to be the best compromise (imo) between increasing gravity and not nerfing recoveries. I haven't started messing with damage ratio codes yet, though.

Yeah, when the time comes, the Brawl+ community is going to need to sit down and decide which codes are absolutely essential to making Brawl a better game.

Keep in mind though that the Melee Air Dodge is taking up a whopping 87 lines of code. And I think the current wavedash is just messed up, everyone sliding around like Melee Luigi and being stackable. If the time comes I think people are going to need to consider if keeping it is really absolutely necessary; if it really takes precedence over trying to add proper comboing to Brawl. Just something to think about if the time to cut codes comes.

On the topic of gravity, 1.25 is way to much. You weren't kidding about Sonic having his recovery nerfed, it's garbage with that setting. 1.15 with 1.1 is pretty good. I'll give 1.175 a whirl later.

 

[leafgreen386]

Well, I'm hoping that an auto-l-cancel code is considerably shorter than the current one, because otherwise, it's pretty much a guarantee that we'll need to cut something.

 

[poklin]

omg 1.175x gravity setting is amazing.. i was having so much fun with 1.25 but i think this is perfect if feels sooo.. right. lol

 

[Problem2]

I think that Gravity 3F980000 (1.1something) is perfect. Leafgreen must feel pretty similar because his is 'barely' off of mine. As for the damage ratio, I have x1.0625 (3F880000) for damage / hit stun. 1.1 has everyone dieing too early.

 

[Starscream]

How is 1.0625 damage ratio when it comes to vertical kills?

 

[Problem2]

Fox's U-smash KO's Bowser at 109%, Mario at 96%, and Jigglypuff at 76%. (still quite a bit)

In comparison, 1.1 Fox can kill Bowser before 100% (I think it was about 85 -90%). I never tried it against Jiggly, but you gotta know that it was a low percent.

This was tested in training mode on Final Destination without move reduction.

 

[thesage]

added gravity should weaken vertical ko moves though.

 

[Problem2]

That's why we increased the damage ratio. Now everything sends people flying 1.0625 times farther than normal.

 

[Pikaville]

Brawl plus sounds pretty interesting.....keep up the good work.

Id definitly play it anyways.

 

[leafgreen386]

Problem2, 3F980000 is 1.1875x gravity, so it's slightly heavier than what I have. I'll have to try it out. Also, is the damage ratio high enough to stop falco's and pika's chain throws? And I mean pika's dthrow chain throw against floaties, because pika should still be able to CT fast fallers regardless.

 

[Problem2]

Testing against lv9 computers:

Falco's chain grab works on Fox until about 45% where Fox starts receiving hitstun instead of flinching and can DI away from Falco.
Falco's cg affects Samus up to 24% where Samus can airdodge away.
Falco's chain grab does not affect Ness because he airdodges away after the first throw.

Pikachu's cg affected Fox up to 95%, but doesn't start until about 30%. (CPU may not have known how to DI properly, but still... ****)
Pikachu's cg affects King Dedede up to 125%, but doesn't start until about 90% (you can tech before Pika can regrab)
Pikachu's cg does not affect Samus or any other floaty.

Luigi's CG affects Snake up to 30%
Luigi cannot chain grab Fox, King Dedede, or Wolf though.

 

[smash superstar]

I cant believe how well this is going

keep up the good work!

 

[Problem2]

So are we completely satisfied with these setting now? Which does everyone prefer? 3F980000 or 3F966666?

 

[leafgreen386]

We have a new setting, now, actually, to add to the list that MuBa proposed. It's 1.165x grav, which is 3F951EB8 in hex.

I honestly don't feel comfortable going above 1.175 (3F966666), so my vote will probably end up going to one of the following values:

1.165 - 3F951EB8
1.170 - 3F95C28F
1.175 - 3F966666

The biggest problem I'm seeing with gravity atm is that it's going to be very difficult to really decide on a "perfect" number, because everyone has different ideas of what they think the game should be like.

 

[MuBa]

I believe we don't need any gravity modifiers whatsoever. But what we do need is a faster fall without having your jumps reduced.

I think the best way to achieve comboability and being able to recover is to have normal jump gravity and 1.5x fall gravity.

 

[Starscream]

I believe we don't need any gravity modifiers whatsoever. But what we do need is a faster fall without having your jumps reduced.

I think the best way to achieve comboability and being able to recover is to have normal jump gravity and 1.5x fall gravity.

If this is possible then I'm all for it. Have you tried suggesting this to a hacker or Phantom Wings?

 

[poklin]

I disagree this game needs shorter short hops they are WAYYY to high .

 

[eman]

High Grav mode is fun, makes gameplay more fun and faster, but it sucks sometimes because you'll jump yourself right out of the stage and die....LOL

 

[leafgreen386]

Well, we were talking about this on the brawl+ chat, and it's a pretty solid idea. When you have upward momentum you're acted on by normal gravity, so recoveries and upward kill moves aren't nerfed, but when you're moving downward, you have a higher gravity value acting upon you (I don't think we want quite 1.5x gravity... maybe 1.3x or so), so characters can't simply float back to the stage after getting hit out, and actually would have to use their upBs, which drastically helps the edgeguarding game, while also allowing characters to reach the ground quicker while comboing. It's a pretty solid idea overall, though how easy it will be to code and what odd effects it will have on gameplay when the grav switches is still uncertain.

There's also the problem that this game needs running momentum to transfer into air momentum... it's so stupid the way it is now >_>

 

[oliwonder]

From my experimenting (with 1.0625 dmg ratio) i personally find 1.15-1.175 gravity too high because it makes the short hop too low, and completely changes certain characters short hop game. For instance with link, his short hop bair cannot be followed with anything after with these gravity levels. A lot of his aerial game used that tech, and it worked in both melee and normal brawl. i may be biased tho because i second link.
i do think we should alter the gravity but at a max level where characters are still able to do what they did in brawl, yet are not as floaty. i've messed with just 1.100 and liked it. i'm slowly goin up to find that max level. anyone else mess w lower levels too?

 

[SGX]

With 1.18 Ganon can't even get onto a battlefield platform with a single full hop. =/

(I haven't extensively tested gravity codes yet, just something I noticed immediately)

 

[kupo15]

Multi jumpers have no more vertical height on their last jump or two last jumps.

Yea, im not a fan of gravity changes....