good luckies WC on the 5th

[kouryuuXfighter]

Not really...

 

[araknophobik]

nope, you just don't play the matchup properly. peach is very very dirty to sheik and with good DI lives a lot longer than sheik does. she also beats sheik in edge guarding.

peach v marth is also relatively even, again you don't know the matchup

the matchups represent what the true matchup is when, in a vacuum, both characters play it 100% properly. just because you don't doesn't mean it's broken or not broken or w/e

lmao the sad part is
your baseing most of your opinions on the idea that you don't do so well on the matchups
sheik ***** peach, your right on the edgeguarding but its hard to approach sheik
and marth v peach is nowhere near even, spam fairs much?
i always thought you ranked peach so high because you never did good on her =/

 

[ajsmith401]

I was pretty much the only person in the entireeast coast to be friends with DSF. He's a really really cool guy, with a lot of talent. he's incredibly smart also. I was sitting behind him every match rooting for him.

The thing is though...Our East Coast MK's really threw him off. MD/VA MK's really are incredibly hard to beat..the matchup isn't even in Snake's favor IMO. DSF and I were talking about how hard it is to beat MK's.

IMO, he just lacks matchup experience. You can tell that he's a great player, but a lot of the times he just didn't know what to do really. Vs Azen's Lucario, he just didn't understand it I don't think. Vs MK's, same thing again. Idk, maybe I'm not sure or anything but w/e.

After what I saw in MD/VA, I'd be very surprised if any West Coast player could come to the EC and take top 5. Then again, I'm not god or anything so idk. But, after talking with DSF so much, I <3 West Coast. xD

And btw, DSF would have done much better if his partner was better. No offense to him or anything, but he was an average Snake at best..Maybe not even.

LoL who are you again?

 

[ajsmith401]

Didn't Ajax place 13th over at EC? If he did then he must be good or at least decent. Ajax also placed Top 10 if not Top 5 at nexus.

Being a bad teammate doesn't mean your a bad player. Ajax just isn't as good in teams as he is in singles I guess. After all, teams takes a different kind of set of skills to be good at.

Ironically Im better in teams than I am in singles, I got 5th at Nexus, and yea...I didnt play well at my first OOS East Coast tourney, sorry I guess? or actually, just **** off? LoL \

<3 doubles posts

 

[Scamp]

Spacing is a given and it goes hand to hand with camping. Without proper spacing, it's not effective camping. If the opponent doesn't space properly, he will leave room for punishment and Peach is a complete ***** as far as punishing goes. But the key word is if.

However, if the opponent camps effectively than the Peach is forced to approach and that goes back to the previous argument.

I guess being a part of several fighting game communities has it's problems such as these terms. Camping is supposed to mean you stay in one spot. This is best known in FPS-es in corners and spawn points. I mean just think about the term camping.

In every other fighting game community, they call it turtling.


But in any event you're wrong. With the exception of lasers 'camping' is exactly what Peach wants you to do.

....I was going to go off on details but forget it. Peach loses to camping, fine, and so on.

 

[MaNg0]

Ironically Im better in teams than I am in singles, I got 5th at Nexus, and yea...I didnt play well at my first OOS East Coast tourney, sorry I guess? or actually, just **** off? LoL \

<3 doubles posts

i got first at my first oos east cost tourneys

no johns

 

[Little England]

"the matchups represent what the true matchup is when, in a vacuum, both characters play it 100% properly. just because you don't doesn't mean it's broken or not broken or w/e"

I always based matchups off of how well a human could play it since playing perfect is..you know..impossible.

 

[choknater]

peach loses to superior gayness

I always based matchups off of how well a human could play it since playing perfect is..you know..impossible.

CORRECT.

i'm pretty sure mango beats people cuz they never play perfect enough.

CC REST GG

 

[ajsmith401]

i got first at my first oos east cost tourneys

no johns

Haha Mang0...can anyone else 2nd that? Also, different game , but lets not get into that now <3

 

[MaNg0]

ur right

i think it be easier 2 do better at brawl

o wait

..

=D

 

[choknater]

isai beat ken for 1st at one of the first mlg at new york, didnt he?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ironically Im better in teams than I am in singles, I got 5th at Nexus, and yea...I didnt play well at my first OOS East Coast tourney, sorry I guess? or actually, just **** off? LoL \

<3 doubles posts

It's cool dude, I can imagine how hard it would be to play OOS. What I said was merely my observations, guess I didn't take into account OOS pressure.

 

[choknater]

oos...

soo...

soomighty...

!!!

***** at marvel

 

[ajsmith401]

ur right

i think it be easier 2 do better at brawl

o wait

..

=D

LoL I mean, I guess...maybe I could do it if I could tilt to rest combo, but I cant...

o wait

=D

 

[NeighborhoodP]

"the matchups represent what the true matchup is when, in a vacuum, both characters play it 100% properly. just because you don't doesn't mean it's broken or not broken or w/e"

I always based matchups off of how well a human could play it since playing perfect is..you know..impossible.

Good thing that's not what I said, right?

 

[choknater]

hey P

does ur **** throb

 

[kouryuuXfighter]

I guess being a part of several fighting game communities has it's problems such as these terms. Camping is supposed to mean you stay in one spot. This is best known in FPS-es in corners and spawn points. I mean just think about the term camping.

In every other fighting game community, they call it turtling.


But in any event you're wrong. With the exception of lasers 'camping' is exactly what Peach wants you to do.

....I was going to go off on details but forget it. Peach loses to camping, fine, and so on.

Well, since this is Smash, you should know how the word "camping" is defined. Also, laser camping is exactly what Peach wants you to do? WTF? Just so you know, a Peach would rather his opponent approach. Let me give you one reason : CC Dsmash LoL.

And I'm curious to hear about your "details". It might help learn more about my character.

peach loses to superior gayness

ergo camping.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

No, you spam cc dsmash and that's why your Peach is so shoddy. You need to stop playing to the lowest common denominator (idiots who get hit over and over by CC dsmash) because that'll get you ***** by anyone who can space properly. I overheard you critcizing Bone for not dsmashing more, but he's actually a good Peach because he doesn't spam it and knows what he's doing.

And yes, you want them to camp you. Scamp is right.

 

[Shmooguy]

I didn't really read this thread, but Peach loses to Sheik.

There are a lot of places where Peach beats Sheik, but mostly it doesn't matter because Sheik can just space and run away.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

obv peach loses to sheik, but it's nothing close to the **** that every ****ty peach main wants to say it is

 

[araknophobik]

it's true, i love the matchup
except maybe against kira =[

 

[Shmooguy]

Naw, Sheik ***** Peach hard. The match up is 60/40 for Sheik, if not a bit more.

60/40 is not ****.

Yeah, Marth and Sheik **** Peach. Peach beats Sheik in edgeguarding? WTF?

And also, yes Peach is GARBAGE at approaching. That's the thing I first learned from the first pro I talked to. He said, "What can't Peach do that every other good character can do? She can't approach, and that's probably her biggest problem."

If you don't even understand the edgeguarding game then I can't take anything you say seriously.

It's true. Peach is horrible at approaching. Some of the finest Peach players would agree. Why else do you think Peach gets ***** by Fox's, Sheiks, and pretty much the entire roster of characters? It's because she can't approach nearly as well as other characters.

Why else do you think she has trouble with Sheiks? Because if they camp, then they force her to approach and well, that she cannot really do. It's common knowledge P... or at least I thought it was...

You're wrong too lol. She's slow, not bad at approaching.

Having a decent projectile and the ability to have 4 frames of lag on ANY aerial makes you pretty good at approaching.

Seriously, if you guys have trouble approaching you're doing it wrong. Go watch cort or vidjo or something

Fun fact about Peach: Her nair and fair scale differently. Fair is stronger until something like 90-100%, then nair is stronger.

WTF how do you know that?

--------

Campy fox, marth, and sheik all beat peach. marth is a little different, but fox and sheik can hit and run all day and peach can't catch up.

of course it's more complicated than that and it isn't easy to camp well (against peach and in general) but that's how it is. I wish my match against Scamp was recorded, I played the matchup so well that time =P

 

[choknater]

everything sherdian says is correct

 

[NeighborhoodP]

campy marth is unwise to do. the general approaching strategy for marth is to dash dance within a dash attack or a fair's distance away so she can't pull turnips, and just pressure her like that. that's not really camping i don't think.

Kira, it's so funny how i said most of what you said in more words before i edited my post. you said it perfectly: peach is slow, not bad at approaching. get some tech skill and you can solve a lot of that tho.

 

[samdaballer]

campy marth is unwise to do. the general approaching strategy for marth is to dash dance within a dash attack or a fair's distance away so she can't pull turnips, and just pressure her like that. that's not really camping i don't think.

Kira, it's so funny how i said most of what you said in more words before i edited my post. you said it perfectly: peach is slow, not bad at approaching. get some tech skill and you can solve a lot of that tho.

100 percent true

 

[kouryuuXfighter]

No, you spam cc dsmash and that's why your Peach is so shoddy. You need to stop playing to the lowest common denominator (idiots who get hit over and over by CC dsmash) because that'll get you ***** by anyone who can space properly. I overheard you critcizing Bone for not dsmashing more, but he's actually a good Peach because he doesn't spam it and knows what he's doing.

And yes, you want them to camp you. Scamp is right.

I know Bone has a good Peach and I learn from him. And from what I remember, I never really criticized him. Interesting how you say he is a good Peach cuz when Bone was playing Tofu at Nexus, you said he sucks.

Also, take in consideration how you said that Peach's Dsmash is rendered obsolete if an opponent can space properly. Interesting enough, Peach's Dsmash is a significant part of her game. And if the opponent doesn't mess up with his spacing, than that hurts Peach greatly.

And no, you don't want them to camp. Wow...

campy marth is unwise to do. the general approaching strategy for marth is to dash dance within a dash attack or a fair's distance away so she can't pull turnips, and just pressure her like that. that's not really camping i don't think.

Kira, it's so funny how i said most of what you said in more words before i edited my post. you said it perfectly: peach is slow, not bad at approaching. get some tech skill and you can solve a lot of that tho.

Peach is not that good at approaching. Yes she isn't that fast but that only contributes to her faulty approach game.

You also said, only ****ty Peach mains say how bad of a match up it is. Go ahead and ask ANY good Peach main and I'm sure many will agree that it is a very uphill battle from the start. Even Cort agrees.

*sigh*

This is for Kira:
I learned many things from Cort, by watching his vids and from his thread. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

Most of the people who disagree about how Sheik doesn't **** Peach or how Peach isn't good at approaching omit the details and don't even bother to back up their claims.

And P, you know a good deal about the game but you just don't know Peach. Sorry.
I can't take anything you say seriously anymore.

 

[∫unk]

What was this thread about again?

Who was ??? in the results?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I completely agree with Kira's post.

Sheik 60 Peach 40
Marth 60 Peach 40
Fox 30 Peach 70
Campy fox 70 peach 30

A good peach will recognize if someone falls for downsmash, if they do, you'll abuse the hell out of it. When I realize someone falls for that move I just spam it, and forget my strategies..heh. At least I used to , I mean.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

kouryuu is trying to defend his opinion so hard that he's losing sight of the argument. dude, 60/40 is not ****. i said 60/40 is the max peach / sheik is, so if you think it's 60/40 we're not disagreeing, you just have a pride issue. you're already agreeing with me. you lost.

edrees' rankings are more or less correct, though i'd put marth/peach 55/45 it doesn't matter and i could easily be wrong. point is it's not close to ****, it's really whoever plays the matchup better. compare that to something like fox v sheik or fox v falcon which is ****.

 

[samdaballer]

guys listen to edrees, he, if anyone knows what he's talking about

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I never really liked the whole thing about putting numbers to a matchup like "60/40" or whatever. What does that really even mean? How do people get these numbers beyond just conjecture? I mean SOME people really put effort into studying matchups and tournament history but most people don't. If it's really something like A wins 60% of the time and B wins 40% of the time, then very few matches not involving low tiers are really worse than like 65/35. Not to mention that the matchups can be vastly different in balance depending on what level of metagame we're talking about.

I think Marth vs Peach is one of the more lopsided matchups, but only in the context of matchups that you actually see in a tourney.

Also, Sheik basically always lives longer than Peach with good DI, because they have the same weight, and Sheik is the 6th fastest faller (tied with Ganon), and Peach is the 5th slowest (tied with Kirby). If you watch that Nihonjin vs Ek comeback vid you can see a Sheik living to ******** %. Being edgeguarded though, is another thing.

 

[kouryuuXfighter]

kouryuu is trying to defend his opinion so hard that he's losing sight of the argument. dude, 60/40 is not ****. i said 60/40 is the max peach / sheik is, so if you think it's 60/40 we're not disagreeing, you just have a pride issue. you're already agreeing with me. you lost.

edrees' rankings are more or less correct, though i'd put marth/peach 55/45 it doesn't matter and i could easily be wrong. point is it's not close to ****, it's really whoever plays the matchup better. compare that to something like fox v sheik or fox v falcon which is ****.

As far as Sheik goes, I said it's at least 60/40 Sheik. But I really think it's more 65/35 Sheik as I've stated before (and I think that's ****). If the Sheik knows the match up then it's just so hard for Peach. Quite frankly, at this point, I am not going to change my mind.

Edrees says it's 60/40 Sheik and I respect his opinion even if I believe Sheik has a bit more of an advantage than that.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

you hardly play with any semblance of intelligence; it's pretty easy for me to categorize you as the average human who's too ignorant to change. not surprising.

so let's see, you don't listen to logic, or even appeal of authority.

i hope to play you in tournament.

 

[kouryuuXfighter]

you hardly play with any semblance of intelligence; it's pretty easy for me to categorize you as the average human who's too ignorant to change. not surprising.

so let's see, you don't listen to logic, or even appeal of authority.

i hope to play you in tournament.

LOL what logic? All I've seen were empty claims with no solid arguments backing them up.

And I'd be happy to play you in tournament.

 

[araknophobik]

wait wait wait
why is everyone ignoring me
i used to know the matchup pretty well lol

 

[Shmooguy]

Also, take in consideration how you said that Peach's Dsmash is rendered obsolete if an opponent can space properly. Interesting enough, Peach's Dsmash is a significant part of her game. And if the opponent doesn't mess up with his spacing, than that hurts Peach greatly.

Downsmash is by far my biggest fear when I'm playing Peach. If your opponent has perfect spacing, then yes, Dsmash is weakened considerably, but they WILL mess up unless they are M2k or Azen or they play luigi or jiggly or something.

Peach is not that good at approaching. Yes she isn't that fast but that only contributes to her faulty approach game.

This is for Kira:
I learned many things from Cort, by watching his vids and from his thread. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

I haven't watched a lot of Peach videos (they're kinda boring to watch), most of my "vs Peach" strategies I came up with on my own. I'm of the opinion that floating towards your opponent is a bad idea, it leaves you wide open. Use floating to speed yourself up, but dont do that float right above laser/needle level and move towards them, I think that's bad unless you're off the edge. Also, you can turnip > fair > jab, dash attack, or nair and it'll cover like any approach option they can do against you. If your opponent is camping they'll be near the edge most of the time and they can't do a lot but either grab the ledge (which most people would rather not do), double jump (bad idea for sheik), try to roll towards you (bad idea) or just shield until they think they are safe enough to roll or jump out. Peach can pressure like mad if you have the tech skill too, plus ANY time they are shielding you can dsmash and you can't be punished. If Sheik didn't have one of the best shield's in the game then her only option would be to WD to the ledge pretty much since she's so weak from above.

Maybe she can't spam fox nairs to approach easily but she can cover any option her opponent tries to do.

Also Sheik will simply needle camp and space aerials and in that case there isn't a lot Peach can do, but dash attack will trade hits with any aerial and since Sheik has bad horizontal mobility in the air it shouldn't be too hard to hit with this (Light and REL do this to me all day). Also grabs are surprisingly difficult to get on Peach since she will never miss L-cancels and stuff, the only way is to tech chase or predict how she gets up from the ledge. Peach is REALLY weak when she's hanging on the ledge so Sheik pretty much always wants her to go there, usually you can just wavedash in and out in front of Peach's roll range and they'll be pressured to get up, once they do either you just grab when they roll or if they stood up you can just wait until they roll towards you and grab. I'm always looking for Peach's to roll when they are near the ledge, noobs do it a lot but Peach players in general do too, i guess they don't have a lot of better options.

Sheik can't jab because it gets CC downsmashed, she can't CC at all (no character can, but CC is really useful for Sheik) so she's going to just space aerials over and over and that gets predictable really fast.

One more thing lol. Space with fsmash and dtilt, they reach past sheik ftilts. And if Sheik is ever above you and close enough, jump up and attack her, peach has so much priority and sheik is so weak coming down, just hit with upsmash or combo with uptilt and upair. Every sheik will try to land away from you but again, her horizontal mobility sucks so i'm sure you'll figure out a way.

Also turnips are BROKEN, wtf @ bob ombs and stitchfaces =(

Sheik 60 Peach 40
Marth 60 Peach 40
Fox 30 Peach 70
Campy fox 70 peach 30

I think Marth is worse for Peach than most people think, just as bad as a technical/campy fox but I could be wrong.

Btw Edrees I gotta play you more. 25 cent MM?

Also, Sheik basically always lives longer than Peach with good DI, because they have the same weight, and Sheik is the 6th fastest faller (tied with Ganon), and Peach is the 5th slowest (tied with Kirby). If you watch that Nihonjin vs Ek comeback vid you can see a Sheik living to ******** %. Being edgeguarded though, is another thing.

Sheik should have a harder time killing, at least in theory. Once Peach gets Sheik off the edge it's death or you'll get her to a high percent at least, and then she has a lot of options. Sheik gets kills with grabs and on some stages fairs don't kill for a long time (up to ~150 if it's from the middle or wrong side of the stage)

wait wait wait
why is everyone ignoring me
i used to know the matchup pretty well lol

edrees came in lol

 

[NeighborhoodP]

stop trying to kill with fairs. you kill with uair around 110% out of a dthrow if you do it properly

also crouch cancel peach's dsmash when she edge guards you for one hit, that stops the dsmash edge guarding cycle, which bad peaches love to do.

also sheik can wd out of shield to grab peach after she dsmashes. most peaches spam a buffered spot dodge -- wait and grab.

if the peach can space properly and utilizes fsmash and dtilt like you said, sheik gets comboed all over the place.

 

[kouryuuXfighter]

Downsmash is by far my biggest fear when I'm playing Peach. If your opponent has perfect spacing, then yes, Dsmash is weakened considerably, but they WILL mess up unless they are M2k or Azen or they play luigi or jiggly or something.



I haven't watched a lot of Peach videos (they're kinda boring to watch), most of my "vs Peach" strategies I came up with on my own. I'm of the opinion that floating towards your opponent is a bad idea, it leaves you wide open. Use floating to speed yourself up, but dont do that float right above laser/needle level and move towards them, I think that's bad unless you're off the edge. Also, you can turnip > fair > jab, dash attack, or nair and it'll cover like any approach option they can do against you. If your opponent is camping they'll be near the edge most of the time and they can't do a lot but either grab the ledge (which most people would rather not do), double jump (bad idea for sheik), try to roll towards you (bad idea) or just shield until they think they are safe enough to roll or jump out. Peach can pressure like mad if you have the tech skill too, plus ANY time they are shielding you can dsmash and you can't be punished. If Sheik didn't have one of the best shield's in the game then her only option would be to WD to the ledge pretty much since she's so weak from above.

Maybe she can't spam fox nairs to approach easily but she can cover any option her opponent tries to do.

Also Sheik will simply needle camp and space aerials and in that case there isn't a lot Peach can do, but dash attack will trade hits with any aerial and since Sheik has bad horizontal mobility in the air it shouldn't be too hard to hit with this (Light and REL do this to me all day). Also grabs are surprisingly difficult to get on Peach since she will never miss L-cancels and stuff, the only way is to tech chase or predict how she gets up from the ledge. Peach is REALLY weak when she's hanging on the ledge so Sheik pretty much always wants her to go there, usually you can just wavedash in and out in front of Peach's roll range and they'll be pressured to get up, once they do either you just grab when they roll or if they stood up you can just wait until they roll towards you and grab. I'm always looking for Peach's to roll when they are near the ledge, noobs do it a lot but Peach players in general do too, i guess they don't have a lot of better options.

Sheik can't jab because it gets CC downsmashed, she can't CC at all (no character can, but CC is really useful for Sheik) so she's going to just space aerials over and over and that gets predictable really fast.

One more thing lol. Space with fsmash and dtilt, they reach past sheik ftilts. And if Sheik is ever above you and close enough, jump up and attack her, peach has so much priority and sheik is so weak coming down, just hit with upsmash or combo with uptilt and upair. Every sheik will try to land away from you but again, her horizontal mobility sucks so i'm sure you'll figure out a way.

Thanks Kira. Of all the people, you actually went into detail.

Well, let me try to explain.

First thing is about the spacing out Peach's Dsmash. It's true, people mess up with their spacing and it's the Peach players goal to try to make them mess up and punish them hard. But at higher level of play and competition, opponents will hardly mess up their spacing and almost never miss any L-cancels so it's going to be hard. On top of that, if they know the match up very well then it only makes things harder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMMkL5A1ITs
A match between M2K and Cort... Look at M2K's superb spacing and notice how difficult it is for Cort to close in and punish (also look at the latest comments between M2k and Cort lol)

Also about the approach you stated:turnip > fair > jab, dash attack, or nair

One Word: Sheild Grab

Peach has no moves sufficient enough for shield pressure. Not even Nair > jab > Nair > jab...
Nair doesn't apply too much shield stun to be considered shield pressure. She can be grabbed out of it.

I remembered trying out that approach vs Gimpy's Bowser and right after my Fair, he Up-B out of shield before my jab could come out lol. It was kinda gross.... lol.

As far as punishing a Peach's Dsmash while shielding is to WD out of shield and grab. And getting grabbed by Sheik is not a good thing for a Peach.

Also, about trading hits with dash attacks... that means your probably messing up your spacing. Dash attacks are Peach's main tools for punishing incorrect spacing or just making spacing harder for her opponents. Your just not being smart with your aerials. I think this comes from your lack of match up knowledge. Once you get a feel for how a Peach moves and the distance of her attacks, things will become much simpler for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McFSQP6DgAs&feature=related
This is another match between M2K and Cort but this time, M2K is Sheik. It's a match on FD. Since it's FD, camping is just not the best option for Sheik. See how well he punishes Cort's float approaches while still assuming a safe position, just outside of Peach's range. Amazing spacing once again earns him a victory and **** against Cort.

Now just some things about Peach. When she approaches with a float... she is wide open. One of the main reasons why Peach is not that good at approaching. My only defense was to Nair FC or right when I'm in my opponents range of attack. The float acts as a baiting tactic and the Nair punishes their sudden approach but that only goes so far. Once my opponent learns, they just wont approach and strictly camp sometimes, making my life even harder. Also, If I Nair, I'm wide open for a free attack which means I have to guess and hope I'm right. I have to try so hard to get into my opponents head and I have to make sure I punish every mistake, or else it can mean certain loss on my part.

Also, take into consideration, why a Peach never approaches if she is not camped. It's because she doesn't need to. Peach's should not approach.

Oh and I'm also trying to incorporate Dtilt into my game since it also acts like somewhat of an evasive tactic against Sheik's tilts and some approaches while setting up a few hit combos in the air or a juicy Nair :]

also crouch cancel peach's dsmash when she edge guards you for one hit, that stops the dsmash edge guarding cycle, which bad peaches love to do.

If the Sheik is good, then they will CC her Dsmash edgeguard and let go towards the stage. But once the Peach catches on, then a good Peach would float onto stage form a edgehog and Nair the Sheik back out, continuing the edge guarding cycle. Peach can edge guard Sheik like mad if done correctly but getting the Sheik off the stage is the real pain.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Also about the approach you stated:turnip > fair > jab, dash attack, or nair

One Word: Sheild Grab

Peach has no moves sufficient enough for shield pressure. Not even Nair > jab > Nair > jab...
Nair doesn't apply too much shield stun to be considered shield pressure. She can be grabbed out of it.

One Word (or 'one word' as much as "shield grab" is one word): Float Cancelling = 4 frames of landing lag. This gives you up to 4 frames advantage when you land (frame advantage = Shield stun - hitlag - landing lag). Not to mention that Peach can pretty much always get the right timing to maximize frame advantage because she can float right above the ground. For other characters you only get the max frame advantage if you do the aerial RIGHT before you land. To put in in perspective, Zelda's bair/fair, which is one of the most powerful moves in the game, and also one of the shortest landing lag moves, only has a +1 frame advantage. Peach has +4 on ALL aerials except dair. If you Float cancel perfectly, or even a few frames off from perfectly, you should NEVER get shield grabbed, even if the opponent times their shield grab perfectly (which is decidedly harder to do than timing a FC'd aerial). If you DO get shield grabbed, it probably means you spaced too far out and their grab range (like Marth's or Link's) is greater than whatever you were trying to do after you landed. Also, shield pressure isn't just for the sake of wearing down their shields. IMO you should just use it to make them afraid of whatever comes after the FC, and then FC aerial to grab as much as possible.

Also, about trading hits with dash attacks... that means your probably messing up your spacing. Dash attacks are Peach's main tools for punishing incorrect spacing or just making spacing harder for her opponents. Your just not being smart with your aerials. I think this comes from your lack of match up knowledge. Once you get a feel for how a Peach moves and the distance of her attacks, things will become much simpler for you.

Peach's dash attack has amazing priority. Very few aerials can really beat it outright, even if they space very well. It's hard for me to chastize someone's spacing when they get hit by it, it's just a da

mn good move. A better thing to do than just trying to beat it with spacing is bait it, and then double jump ff aerial (if your character can do that fast enough).

Now just some things about Peach. When she approaches with a float... she is wide open. One of the main reasons why Peach is not that good at approaching.

It really depends on HOW you float. If you float close to the ground you have a lot of good defensive options because you can land and shield/roll/dodge very quickly. If you're floating too high, then yes, you're fairly open (but why would someone do that anyway?), though it's nothing like say, a Luigi or anything. It should also be noted that Peach's air dodge is better than everyone else's because she can fastfall out of it 10 frames earlier (so can Zelda).

Also, take into consideration, why a Peach never approaches if she is not camped. It's because she doesn't need to. Peach's should not approach.

You might get away with this against Sheik, but try it against Fox or Falco and see where that gets you. Also, Peach's turnips are actually pretty easy to catch. If you just turnip camp and don't even THREATEN approach, they can just stand in place and catch turnips. You have to approach every so often if you want people to take threatening to approach seriously.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Yeah dude, seriously kouryuu, you showed so much of your lack of skill in your post. Dash attack punishes a LOT of things because of its deceptive hit box and ridic priority.

And shield grab? Dude, every good character in the game has moves or techniques that allow them to never get shield grabbed if playing properly. That's what shield pressure is -- there's no such thing as proper shield pressure if you can get shield grabbed out of it LMAO. You watch cort and don't know that?

BTW, your response to Kira is pretty much wrong -- you can't always cc jab to whatever because if you're always ccing, you're bad and I'm going to spam spaced fairs in your face all day long. The only reason you'e spamming CC is to spam dsmash, which will get you ***** when I use moves that can't be responded to if I space them when I hit you.

And if you make the Peach nair you and do that, that's a lot easier to DI so I can get back to the stage with my second jump, get far enough on my up b towards the stage that you can't get me, or mindgame you with my up b when you try to jump off the ledge.