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Gliding over tall buildings in a single shuttle loop: The Meta Knight Social

Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
1,753
Location
Bonn, Germany
We need tests for it. My observation was that dair is the best clear combo move (up-air is more a tech-chase/juggle thing) which leads into itself but is hard to setup.
Every possibility to get a guaranteed dair is worth very much (I don't like just gambling a dair because of its terrible landing lag). Combos against floaties are heavily appreciated because DI away will stop grounded followups like regrab etc... Maybe a dash forward -> jump as quick as possible -> diagonal dair can also work on DI away.
DI away seems to be the critical DI we have to cover to get followups most of the time.
 

Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
1,753
Location
Bonn, Germany
I tested down-b ledgecancel again. Its faster than air movement. For example try to jump on one of the Pokemon Stadium 2 platforms (at the back of it) and right before landing, down-b and c-stick forward while holding control stick down. If you don't even hear all of the sfx for the down-b hit you are doing it right.
 

Downdraft

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Messages
556
Location
Huntsville, AL
Hello, I've never posted in these forums, so I'd like to introduce myself.
I picked up Meta Knight a month or two ago as a secondary main.
Now, he's essentially the only character I play.
I could use some improvement with non-character-specific tech like teching, wavedashing, DI, etc., but that's not the point of this post.
I play WiFi matches and am struggling versus Sheik. Are there any general tips y'all can give me to help with this matchup?
It's not just one or two moves that are giving me trouble, I'm having trouble with Sheiks that are played by opponents of comparable or higher skill level.

edit: Is there a WiFi Meta Knight group here? I'd like to get some practice versus Meta Knight himself to pick up on a few things. Thanks. I'm going to watch a few Meta Knight videos from the character redux thread.

edit #2: Side tilt and Drill Rush are crouch cancelable. Drill Rush and aerials are my main means of approaching. I don't use Mach Tornado on or from the stage much because I just don't understand the effectiveness of the new version. I know you can use Dimensional Cape to approach, but I haven't worked on that.
 
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Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
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Jun 1, 2013
Messages
1,753
Location
Bonn, Germany
Drill rush isn't a good approach, f-tilt isn't that CCable because if you time it right you should get the second and third hit out before they can CC->punish and the third has a better angle.
Against Sheik you need to be a bit more airfocused as soon as needles are charged/in-play/likely-to-be-thrown. The air stall (sit over their shield and keep jumping, punishing drop shield with dair) and sh nair/fair should be your main "approaches". You can also try a more dashdance-based playstyle but I don't like it against Sheik that much, but be aware of it, it is good if you don't give Sheik enough time.
One of Sheik's main tricks you should be aware of is WD back -> f-tilt it is pretty hard to deal with sometimes. Punish Sheik when she is in the air because the sh is so high. Sheik will mainly go for dash attack or grab, so in the air you are often safe and can bait out moves.
If you have more detailed questions regarding the Sheik vs Meta Knight matchup, feel free to ask them.
 

Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Bonn, Germany
Multi-jumpers seem to be the exception, because you are bad off if you are still in Sheiks range in the air but if you aren't it is OK. Also a reason for that general rule is characters with only one jump have serious recovery problems when faird during a jump which MK... hasn't. There are probably cases where it backfires but in general it should work.
 

Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
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Jun 1, 2013
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Tested the nair autocancel thing again. It works on different platform heights and initial heights (for mid-air jumps), sadly landing lag is applied. The reason for it is that on a few timings on the frame MK goes over the platform, MK's lowest body part (he isn't exactly a sphere) touches the platform again because of the spin. It is an option to keep in mind but no "breakthrough".
A possible setup is: sh->up-air->midair jump->nair cancel->grab/f-tilt/whatever

I wonder if there are similar things with other characters, it could appear anywhere in an aerial where a character spins/turns quickly.

Btw sorry for my double posting but you can't make your ideas come all at once^^
 
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Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
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Bonn, Germany
I miss it so barely, like 1 or 2 frames more and I would get it. Could be that my fair isn't perfectly timed or that the downward control stick for the diagonal downward airdodge causes a fastfall stealing me that one or two frames...
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
I'm not sure because I sometimes don't get it as well, you can just Air dodge up or DJ, the problem might lie in that it's 1 frame strict to get the Fair ASAP out of the FH but it seems like some other factor might be going on
 
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Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
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Hmm sure you can do it longer than like 50%? MK should live long enough still because recovery so theres pretty much more in the mirror than the techchase.
 

Sol0ke

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Messages
732
Location
Massachusetts
Just fought my friend's Bowser.
The matchup can be both exciting and frusturating (the former if you know what to do).

Though in the end, he still wrecked my MK.
 

WhiteLightnin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
217
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Greetings! Here is some REALLY IMPORTANT TIME SENSITIVE INFORMATION. WATCH THIS VIDEO AND/OR READ BELOW! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJHZj5w83vg

It has to do with us being able to continue to play Wifi on custom servers after Nintendo Wifi shuts down but we HAVE TO ACT BEFORE THE 18th!

Just enter your friend code including the (-) between numbers and for GameID the code of the game which in this case would be RSB* for SSBB. You are going to want to enter a letter for the region you are playing from. For most of us that will be an "E" which is for the Americas. So in the GameID slot you would have RSBE. The link to the website is http://wiimmfi.profeibe.at/

*I'm posting this in multiple places to give as many people as possible the chance to see it in time. I apologize if this isn't an appropriate place to post this within the forum. I figured a lot of people will be interested in this as net play is not a plausible alternative for a lot of people.
 

Lawn Chair

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
321
Why would we want to play on WIFI anymore? I played Zero who lives a half and hour away from me and it had to be 5 frames of delay. Soooo bad, I ended up going over Vex's house to play him the same day LOL.
 

Lawn Chair

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
321
How did you do?
Once I my fingers did what I told them to do after a couple of games. He didn't beat me with Fox once IIRC, his pit is good but I was being a Mewtwoking and looking for CPs I'm fairly sure now without a bad mindset I can beat his pit a few times. Next time I can catch him home and he is streaming I link you guys up.
 
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WhiteLightnin

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 25, 2013
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217
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Albuquerque, NM
Why would we want to play on WIFI anymore? I played Zero who lives a half and hour away from me and it had to be 5 frames of delay. Soooo bad, I ended up going over Vex's house to play him the same day LOL.
Lol I realize it's not the most ideal way to play but I wanted to put it out there for those that might be interested.
 

Leeyam

Smash Apprentice
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Mar 2, 2014
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101
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Auckland, New Zealand
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leeyamnz
Can someone explain why bowser can be difficult for MK? It doesn't feel difficult for me since it's easy to keep the downthrow techchase going for ages due to his weight.
 

Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
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Jun 1, 2013
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Bonn, Germany
Good Bowsers play an anti-approach style where they keep the spacing to not get grabbed and crouchcancel if you hit them. Down-throw techchase is clearly a big threat for Bowser but he is heavy enough to live long enough after it. MK has a hard time approaching and mostly needs to search for grabs. Bowser hits strong too... Matchup is probably like 60-40 or 65-35 MK but you have to be very careful and its only that advantegous if you play the neutral game very precise.
 

Sol0ke

Smash Ace
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Messages
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It might be just me but I find that assaulting Bowser from the air helps the matchup some
 
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Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
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Only if he is out of crouchcancelling percents which can sometimes take very long. If you reached that point the rest of the stock gets easier very quick but before that you have to dashdance and use all your movement (which can be hard with MK's bad WD) to grab him.
 

Chesstiger2612

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Nice one. I was thinking about possible applications for the sh->up-air->anything. It seems up-air has not enough horizontal range to effectively pressure shields next to you and in a combo you are normally better off doing a mid-air jump after the first up-air. Frametraps against airdodges would be possible, are there more possibilities?
About the fair waveland I think it is very useful because it isn't that commital. MK's height gain is quick enough to escape even if the fair misses and after a waveland you have got full optionage again. The most useful scenario I could imagine (also a very practical one) is if you fair on shield and the opponent drops the shield (instead of wding out of it which would be the more accurate option) and after the waveland you could dair diagonally and if they aren't able to shield again they need to roll/spot dodge giving you at least a frame advantage.

Battlefield seems to be my fav. neutral in many matchups (except Dreamland against bad recoverers), the platform setup helps in so many aspects.
 

Chappos

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
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119
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Perth, Western Australia
Just fought my friend's Bowser.
The matchup can be both exciting and frusturating (the former if you know what to do).

Though in the end, he still wrecked my MK.
I definitely know what you mean by the first part.

The problem with bowser is he has great options to wall MK out. Not only this, but the combination of his huge power and MK's relatively light weight makes it a rough time to be hit. On the flip side to this, however, if you get a few good reads you can start juggling bowser for days with up-air strings. If you correctly follow their D.I, you can lead out of those into fairs, bairs, nairs, whatever you want. In my opinion, focus your neutral game on tilts and grabs to try get him in the air, then go ham. Don't try rack up damage on the ground.
 

Leeyam

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Ugh, I've got a tournament tomorrow and I'm having trouble deciding which stages I should be picking. The general consensus on these boards and stuff is that he is super strong on stages like warioware and the reasoning seems sound, but then I asked a pro player what he thinks and he said stages like Dreamland and PS1, which are like the opposite to warioware. Is this because it's mostly dependent on your matchup?
 

Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
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Depends really much on the matchup, MK is quite flexible. Always think "What stages do I profit more from than the opponent does" rather than "Which stages are the best for my character". So for example, WarioWare is good because you can stop some characters to live very long, if you would edgeguard them either way there is no advantage for you in that aspect. Also what can help is too imagine what stage he wants to go to/ you don't want to go to, then search for the reason why you don't want this stage and then look for a stage that removes this negative aspect. For example, you don't want FD against Donkey Kong. Why? His grab game is strong without platforms. Also, your combos get better with platforms. Question more details if you are not sure yet, like "which blast zone/ceiling height/stage size distance would be best" or "Does a top platform help me". Eventually, you can rate all stages in an order and pick the best of it which is not banned.
Just to consider generally, Battlefield and Dreamland are often your best neutrals why Final Destination and Yoshi's Story are the worst. Always make it matchup dependent though.
 

9bit

BRoomer
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I just asked Max in a stream chat (Umbreon) where he ranked MK and he said 4th. This character is seriously good.
 

sneakytako

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
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Cincinnati OH
Dream land is great because we live forever and no one can gimp us, and we can gimp most chars on that stage free. I would still ban it against jigs though.

IDK, I really think GHZ is a auto ban worthy stage against MK.

Also, if it's legal halberd is insane for MK, best CP stage ever.
 
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Sol0ke

Smash Ace
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Apr 11, 2014
Messages
732
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Massachusetts
Just put Zero's victory theme from Megaman X5 over Meta Knight's.
It sounds so awesome now whenever I win with him.
 

Chesstiger2612

Smash Lord
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I was rethinking reappear after down-b. I criticized the option multiple times because of its huge reappearing lag. Lets say your opponent shields. If you reappear in front of them, they should be able to punish you, the reappearing animation is just so long... Reappearing over the opponent is also kind of senseless because you don't go up that much and reappearing is 18 frames, plus startup from an aerial... Every character has options punishing it.
If you were in the air before, it is also highly questionable because you force yourself into a bad landing, you can probably escape but there is just a little chance you will ever profit from it. Most try the option with the aim to do an aerial while falling then, but MK's aerials on shield can't be just played out raw. And therefore you need the ability to maneuvre before and without jumps it doesn't work.
If you reappear behind them on the other hand, half the cast isn't really able to punish consistently. Then, you are at least in the realm of mindgames and it is not an outright bad option. The main mindgame options are in this situation:
f-tilt as quickest hit, against startups on moves as will as jumpsquat if they want to punish with bair.
Shield if they are already putting a move out, probably it is nothing more than a panic reaction and therefore bad on shield.
Grab if they still wait in their shield, it also beats some other options including slow punishes where there are still in startups.
Their options are mostly WD away from your new location (will probably result in neutral game), a punih like a bair, some characters have alternatives and keep shielding. This mindgame should be favourable for you.
I still think down-b reappearing is not that good because any hitbox during your invisibility will hit you and if they predict the option the punish can be big. One main method can be to wait a very short time if it is an IDCape, if not, doing a SHFFL nair to eliminate the crossup reappear and then shielding again if you still didn't hit do be safe against other reappearing forms. Clearly, you can now do tricks like down-b -> wait a little bit -> c-stick cancel once they naired, but overall the mindgame should be slightly favourable for them, if they are aware of both players' options. If they fall for the crossup reappear though and fight it the wrong way, you will be able to get clear down-b hits again. On the longrun they should be able to put a huge question mark on your down-b usage in neutral. But as long as they aren't prepared, this is useful.
 

Lawn Chair

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
321
Orly? & Lawn Chair vs Wang & Ganj


Lawn Chair vs Orly? Friendlies


Lawn Chair & Orly? vs Metal Reaper & Zhu PM doubles Winner Finals

 

DD_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
371
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Hey guys, been playing P:M / MK for a bout a week now. Loving the character and the info in this thread. Quick Q tho how are people dealing with the Yoshi match up? The guy I verse always has an answer to back air and moves so fast (Been playin the character since melee) that asside from nair it's really hard to land any lethal blows. Is Up-b the way to go? or just try get some good reads?
 
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