Gliding over tall buildings in a single shuttle loop: The Meta Knight Social

[Run DMX]

Yeah, IDC is instant dimensional cape.

 

[NameChange]

It's official
everyone hates my MK because I constantly 4 stock them

i never felt so high and mighty before

 

[Run DMX]

Do you guys think MK doesn't get that much attention because of his playstyle in Brawl? I don't get why people won't main him xD

 

[Youngster Joey]

a few reasons for that. less jumps, shorter nado, slower u air, new down b. im pretty sure that covers it. oh also worse up b so no more broken tier

 

[Run DMX]

But he feels sooooooo good in PM. xD

 

[GeZ]

a few reasons for that. less jumps, shorter nado, slower u air, new down b. im pretty sure that covers it. oh also worse up b so no more broken tier

Nado still kills off the top, just reasonably instead of for free, Uair is amazing, slower but sets up for combos better, replacing the counter was one of my favorite changes. I think that he's actually still pretty close to broken tier, people are just more willing to branch out to different characters in P:M because the cast is much more balanced.

It's official
everyone hates my MK because I constantly 4 stock them

i never felt so high and mighty before

This was me and my Mario since a few months ago. Now hope that the players in your area strive to figure out the matchup and take down MK, because otherwise you just won't get to play that character without people getting salty. That's unfortunately what happened to me.

 

[NameChange]

I don't think they ever will if they keep complaining about how cheap Ike is

Which he isn't

 

[Lawn Chair]

Telling you guys he is one of the best

 

[Run DMX]

Do you guys play online or something?

 

[Lawn Chair]

no u no u no u

 

[NameChange]

I play online, for all that matters.

 

[Youngster Joey]

i have trouble with the ivy mu.. i mean i never really played a good ivy so i never lost to it really.. but i still feel uncomfortable about it especially the razor leaf. idk how to get around her stuff. any advice for getting better at this mu besides just playing it?

a great example i can give of what im looking for is back in brawl i was diddy kong trying to learn the falco mu. the diddy boards told me all these amazing tricks like you can crawl under reflector and side b to punish that. and our own side b beats falcos phantasm so little tricks like that would be great.

im mostly looking for ways around razor leaf, seed bomb pressure possibly, and the retreating forward airs. the seed bomb isnt too bad but its still new to me and i feel if i just get around these 3 things im good to go with fully learning the mu

 

[Lawn Chair]

Against Ivy you want to approach with shield and wavedash OoS to punish, keep her on platforms she has no valid option up there, when edgeguarding you want to make holding the ledge the number one priority when ivy uses her up-b and then presses A the moment she does that input she can not attack or defend herself until she touches the ground (close enough). To be honest the best way to find out how to deal with Ivy is to find out what works for you against her. Like I've been saying I want to make a MU thread to give basic guidelines but I'm lazy and don't have my Brawl disc so until then... Good Luck!

 

[Youngster Joey]

thanks for some reason wave dash oos never crossed my mind. with any of my characters. its never something i got into so much so maybe i should start that. i also knew about the up b thing. thats not one of the things i have trouble with

EDIT: wait dont razor leaf hit boxes stay out even after hitting shield unless theyre perfect shielded? meaning that jump oos wouldnt work unless its perfect shielded?

 

[Run DMX]

Awaiting for this Saturday. Putting my MK on stream, mm$'ing folks >.>

 

[Lawn Chair]

thanks for some reason wave dash oos never crossed my mind. with any of my characters. its never something i got into so much so maybe i should start that. i also knew about the up b thing. thats not one of the things i have trouble with

EDIT: wait dont razor leaf hit boxes stay out even after hitting shield unless theyre perfect shielded? meaning that jump oos wouldnt work unless its perfect shielded?

Fight in the air then

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Perfect shield then

 

[NameChange]

Anyone know what to do in the Luigi matchup? I seem to be struggling with it.

 

[Lawn Chair]

Keep Luigi in the air you have to space your attacks and I think his dair beats MK's uair, dair might work very well and single hit fair into uair (one of fairs hitboxes lifts people up so you can combo after that) Just experiment we all don't have every MU down so we can't really give the greatest advice. It comes from trying new things and methods of attacking to make a solid MU description

 

[Lawn Chair]

I just keep staring at this MU thread I made I just can't get the motivation to type anything, can someone please just come in a skype call with me I'll record myself giving MU advice and throw that up I'm such a lazy ******* recently

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Motivate yourself to write man ^^
Can't be that hard.
Btw I experimented a bit against characters that have no real aor combo breaker like shine or a very quick nair and found that if you hit with the second hit of your fair but not the third (so hit on frame 10, l-cancel on 11, land on 12, before hit 3 on frame 13 comes out or sth) it can lead into some nice up airs, or dair strings, or even a dcape on some percents

 

[RabidJackal]

Yeah I love that part of his f-air, pops them up perfectly. If you just use only the first hit, too, it works as well. I usually combo it into n-air (hard to DI because f-air -> n-air comes out so fast and can lead to easy edgeguards), u-air, or upsmash(only if you can get the strong one) but your idea of dcape sounds awesome so I'll try to incorporate instant dcape into it now if I can. F-air is also a very useful tool when falling through platforms because of that property & how much space it takes up w/ little to no endlag.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Wow tornado actually gets higher than shuttle loop (tested at 1/4th speed :D) so you can dair more often if you dont reach the blast zone directly and also the nair gimps work better (i recommend inputting a jump right before the nair to not hit the blast zone before tornadoing). Just have to mash like crazy (Challenge accepted!)

Got some tornados off the top but they are easily SDIable was experimenting a bit with that move because I'm sure it isn't as useless as everyone claims.
Against some characters trying to edgeguard you when you are at the ledge you can do the Brawl: fall off, up air, jumping again and upairing etc until you got a good position to get bak to the ledge safely.

 

[Lawn Chair]

I need setup this damn USB loader I have all of these theories but no game to play on ,

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I have PM since February now I was also theorycrafing for half a year before that :D
Btw, what are MKs best options to land safely? He hasn't that much aerial horizontal movement and Dair and Dcape seem punishable for landing

 

[Lawn Chair]

I use dair to get down to land but I don't do it towards my opponent I bait them to fish for an early juggle and I dair quickly and get below them or I just drift out to the ledge and either grab ledge, Mach Tornado, up-b, side-b sweet spot, airdoge. Etc.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Mix up seems important when landing

 

[Lawn Chair]

if you play right you should never be above someone MK's weakness from below is similar to Marth's.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Thats true but it still happens to me right now when I accidently full hop.
Btw what about backing away with Dcape (not holding B)? You have to respect the cape becuase of c-stick cancel. It has a bit of startup but once you are in it you can mindgame your opponent since you know where both players are, he doesn't

 

[NightShadow6]

An interesting thing people should know is that using downb from the ground lets you airdodge and have all your jumps.

This opens it up for possibly tech chasing or just using it as means as an approach while being safe.

 

[Lawn Chair]

Downb is not safe in the slightest if I see any of you approaching with that I will kick you in the head, the only notable thing that you guys should steal from Squeak is downb mindgames. For example down-b above someone's shield FF Nair behind their shield or FF grab them.

EDIT: PLEASE DON'T SPAM DAIR LIKE SQUEAK

 

[Chesstiger2612]

He doesnt do dair that often actually, he changed his playstyle ^^

 

[Lawn Chair]

He doesnt do dair that often actually, he changed his playstyle ^^

No he still does it when he gets pressured, he didn't change anything

 

[Kaysick]

So I was fooling around with MK a week or so ago and I think I'm going to drop DDD for MK.

What should I work on right off the bat with him? I used to use him in Brawl till he got banned in tournies (didn't go to any)

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Some new testing and this is the result:
First: grab release at the ledge is DEATH for fast-fallers (hard to pull off sometimes but you dont need a read just good execution). I recommend falling down up-airing them twice (when next to them), jump (timing is sometimes hard so you are able to recover yourself) and shuttle loop / nado recovery. Go for more dashgrabs instead of JC grabs to set up that the opponent is over the ledge because you have more "afterslide" with it. If its Fox normally Fire Fox starts off when you almost reached the ledge so you can do a nado then just next to the ledge for the case they would barely make it.
Second: Nado beats Fire fox (pretty sure same goes for Falco, not sure about Wolf). If they recover, drop a little bit under the ledge, nado (timing needs again a bit of practice), go onstage with it again and repeat till they are dead or you messed up (hopefully first case). TIP: just go a little bit below the edge otherwise mashing for the nado to get back up gets harder. Remember to just go a little bit above the stage with the nado and stop mashing then otherwise cooldown etc. takes to long.
If you dont get it like that you could just trade a dair with their up-b but if you are confident getting ~15% less is always better.
Third: in a d-throw techchase, go for a dash-cancel f-tilt quite often, it is imho the third best option after regrab and DCape bad techrolls in your direction or such stuff. You dash cancel with slamming the control stick in the diagonally down-away from your dashing direction. Dont accidentally jab instead of d-tilt. The reason why I only state it as 3rd best techchase option is the possibility to get crouch-cancelled, but above (depending on the character) ~40% it turns into a godsend.
Fourth: This one is probably more known. Fair (first or second hitbox) into grab. Now here is the change. Time it so that you can change how many hitboxes hit by fastfalling at different points of time. If you see he crouches (and will probably go for a CC), dont fastfall and get all 3 hitboxes out (theres not enough time to hit inbetween them, and the third hitbox isnt that vulnerable to CC cause more knockback. Fastfall it if you think they dont CC (mindgames :D) so you can get a grab out of the hit of the first or second hitbox.
Fifth: Also out of the ledge-grab-release setup against medium-fallers, going after them and aerial doesnt work because they recover too fast. Try dair trade with their recovery here or dair at the ledge so you hit the ground or ledge-cancel while they get dumpstered.

Might edit sth. if I forgot anything...

Ah there is sth.: If your opponent is stuck knocked down on a platform (like a BF platform not a huge one like YI) and you are below him, I recommend waiting till you see him doing anything and then SH D-Cape C-Stick up. This will pretty much hit him at the whole platform and if it trades with his getup, thats more of a good thing for you. Tips and tricks: You need to be below the side of a platform (but like this so you are completely under it) facing the direction of the rest of the platform. Wait for the whole SH to come out and delay the C-up by a little bit.

Victory is his destiny...

 

[Kaysick]

I picked up MK in 6 hours, after playing him in Brawl near the beginning of its release. Dropping Yoshi for MK and keeping Kirby. 2-0 2 stocked this guy on stream for the first match. Learned Dimensional Cape things an hour before I left and was applying it very well.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Just a few little notes for you MK players (well turned out to be quite a few, but either way):

- Always JC your grabs (the only exception I could think of is when you want to grab release over the ledge and want that slide)
Range Standing grab (so also JC grab): 12.623
for Dash grab: 9.623
Yes, so much difference: As comparison, for most characters they are almost the same, for many the Dash grab range is higher.

EDIT: Forgot to mention it, his pivot grab is very good.

Use first hit of f-tilt as reset. When you do, don't use the second hit cause it will miss but go for a regrab.

D-smash is frame 6 (One startup, minimum charge one, first hitbox after releasing 4):If you know it will hit, just do it!
Not that vulnerable to CC as f-tilt, but don't just throw it out becasue you can get punished hard while MK hits on the other side.

Tested that gimp on Spacies again. Trade stocks should always work, and for realistic use it is most practical to trade their up-B with your dair or even better, their charging up-B (just 1%) for your dair. Double up-air is a bit weird because recovering after it is hard.

Use nair when your opponents options are limited! When he jumped, when he is on a platform etc. etc... As normal approach I would recommend dashdancing and try to get a JC grab.

About your grab game: At low percents, d-throw (if you can't throw them offstage) and do your techchase. At higher percents, mix in b-throws to counter DI away against which d-throw doesn't work then. After a DI away b-throw, you can turnaround -> fair or nair. Also mix in up-throws, it (not 100% sure) gets you one up-air and is especially good if you can chase your opponent even more (fastfaller or bad landing), in this case proceed with up-airs and nairs.

Nair at the ledge (when you are still onstage) just over the ground: the hitbox will cover large offstage parts.

After a reset occuring from a d-throw, you can use your Shuttle loop if you like to continue the chase in the air! There is a good chance you will land the glide attack at lower-mid %s and a high ones go for the kill off the top. Not always the best option but more is better!

Up-air -> Fall a bit down together with you opponent -> Shuttle loop: Kill combo at high percents and great air chase tool ad mid%s on stages with a platform layout like Battlefield (otherwise theres often little too chase and you get punished).

Drop from the ledge and nair as edgeguard when you still have the invincibility. Normally just make sure to use 1 jump right before the nair otherwise the long move and the fast falling drag you down too much.

SH Up-air OoS: Works if your opponent is not too small, MK is in the air frame 4 (3-frame-jumper), you input nair on 5, first hitbox on frame 5 so it is as frame 10 option kind of fast. Note that if you don't FF you can get out a second up-air which is great for pressure since its almost direcly before landing and you can continue with a SHFFL nair or a grab or another double up-air. A great tool for turning defensive to offensive. Not your main option but a good mixup. Also not good against top shield pressurers like Fox, Falco, Lucas, Lucario. Against them, wait for a good opportunity to get out (WD away) or, if there is no other way, roll or spot dodge.

EDIT: Shuttle loop OoS is frame 9 but more risky so I prefer Up-air OoS. Shuttle loop is your best offensive shield option (after shield grab) against characters that aren't tall enough for the up-air (like Squirtle)

Thats it for today,
Good luck,
Chesstiger2612

 

[NameChange]

http://youtu.be/Y8585gD1lkY?t=1m25s
What did Infinity just do there

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Down-B C-stick out -> ledgecancel -> down-b again
MKs best inofficial taunt

 

[Lawn Chair]

Just a few little notes for you MK players (well turned out to be quite a few, but either way):


About your grab game: At low percents, d-throw (if you can't throw them offstage) and do your techchase. At higher percents, mix in b-throws to counter DI away against which d-throw doesn't work then. After a DI away b-throw, you can turnaround -> fair or nair. Also mix in up-throws, it (not 100% sure) gets you one up-air and is especially good if you can chase your opponent even more (fastfaller or bad landing), in this case proceed with up-airs and nairs.

After a reset occuring from a d-throw, you can use your Shuttle loop if you like to continue the chase in the air! There is a good chance you will land the glide attack at lower-mid %s and a high ones go for the kill off the top. Not always the best option but more is better!

Drop from the ledge and nair as edgeguard when you still have the invincibility. Normally just make sure to use 1 jump right before the nair otherwise the long move and the fast falling drag you down too much.

All of this I disagree with

1. Dthrow should 9/10 times should always be the throw to use, only uthrow only seems usefully on some characters around 10%

2. If you can do a fellow up from a missed tech you should be doing a sweetspot dtilt ( the hilt of the sword ) into uair up-b or bair whatever aerial you feel like doing that day lol.

3. Bair is a better fall off option, jump to stage nair is good.