Girls/Guys/Relationships

[Red Exodus]

Around here, only cool people have relationships [with other cool people]. I repeated a year [I was really lazy] so I only really know a few people who either knew me even when we weren't in the same year or know me because they repeated as well.

I've never been one to try to get into a relationship, it's not like I'm a very interesting person [unless you're a friend on mine, I'm very boring around strangers] so there's no point in even wasting anyone's time.

One of my best friends says I need to get a girl but there's no point, all of the attractive ones are taken, don't like me or are just not compatible. Don't get me wrong, it's not like there are any compatible unattractive girls here anyway.

Personally I think I'm fine where I am. I've never been in a relationship and I probably never will be but that doesn't really bother me, I only get annoyed when people [mainly my friends] think I care about stuff that doesn't matter to me.

 

[Mrs. Bahamut]

Jammer, being dominant in a relationship isn't about owning the person

It's common knowledge that girls are way too indecisive to decide on what movie you're gonna see

that's why they need someone to make that decision firm and then go with it..unless they downright disagree. Screw the books, why is it called double your dating when a lot of the people who read them have 0 dates

Wait, what? I'm sorry, but I'm the decision maker and Baha can't make up his mind most of the time. Ask any of the BRoomers. They know for a fact how Baha and I work. Now this doesn't mean he doesn't have an opinion. If I'd want to go to some horrible chick flick, he has veto power right away. But what I choose usually is cool with both of us.

No no no I don't think girls are indecisive enough to choose a movie...I just think that to look cool or chillin the girl will let the guy decide because he's probably paying

Again, you are wrong. I am currently the bread winner for our household and pay the bills while Baha finishes school. And I don't plan to quit working either.

Don't say we like to cook. I got pots and pans Baha registered for at my wedding shower that looked like alien objects to me. But as soon as I got my power drill that I registered for, I was happy. Role reversal is becoming more common now days. Baha and I are a very good example of it.

So next time you look at that girl to go ask her on a date and plan to pay for it:

This normal girl dressed in pink...drives a bulk 24 truck that most people don't have the license to drive, lifts a huge dolly that weighs twice her size, pays all the bills and respects and loves her man. I'm a small, normal girl who can easily do a man's job. My point is, you don't know what a woman is capable of. You guys realize we are all the same right???

...and you'd have no idea I did any of that by the first impression. So go up to girl and look at her like she is an equal. She is just as capable to do whatever you do.


Edit: And as always, here is my relationship advice: DON'T GO LOOKING FOR IT. A good relationship will find you. The right person will fall into your arms one day. And you don't have to go sleeping around to force yourself to try to have a good one.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm, I guess you think I'm being sexist..I'm not, I know that girls are equal to guys, I've never said otherwise. Congrats on your marriage.

 

[Mrs. Bahamut]

Thanks!

No I don't think you are being sexist, I just think some guys see girls as a separate species. We do the same things guys do. Why else would there be girls on SWF? What I'm getting at is, don't talk to girls differently than you do guys. Then you'll eventually have a good relationship. Baha and I are best friends. We can say anything to each other without regret. That's what everyone needs to look for. And you guys will never get there if you are scared to talk to a girl. She's no different than you.

 

[Jammer]

Woohoo! A girl comes into this thread! And she's lending some credibility to my views! I feel so unsexist it hurts!

What I'm getting at is, don't talk to girls differently than you do guys. Then you'll eventually have a good relationship. Baha and I are best friends. We can say anything to each other without regret. That's what everyone needs to look for. And you guys will never get there if you are scared to talk to a girl. She's no different than you.

Okay, if guys talked to girls like they talked to other guys, I'm pretty sure the world would end. I can't blame you for not knowing, Mrs. Bahamut, but when guys are in a group, we're liable to say anything and do anything.

I've seen groups of girls. I stopped over at a friends house when she was having a sleepover with all her female friends to give her her phone that she had lost and I had found. I got out of there fast. They were talking about hair, and nails, and boys, and they were gossiping all over the place, and.... I can't go on.

Girls and guys are definitely different. But they aren't different in all the ways you'd expect.

For example, Mrs. Bahamut loads and drives a truck. But I doubt she truly acts like a guy. If she did, I doubt she'd be attractive to a heterosexual man.

Different, but equal. Not separate, but equal; different, but equal.

 

[KoreanDJ111]

Man, not this thread again...

I'm glad though, some people in this thread actually know what they are talking about.

I think they will do the talking for me...at least for the most part.

And yes, Girls and Boys are what people might say "Equal". But they are not the "Same".

And a quote from Mrs. Bahamut:

"And as always, here is my relationship advice: DON'T GO LOOKING FOR IT. A good relationship will find you. The right person will fall into your arms one day. And you don't have to go sleeping around to force yourself to try to have a good one."

I believe this is a more fitting advice to a girl rather than to a guy, although there is some wisdom in it.
It's tied with the concept of the Law of Attraction (The Secret).
But that's a whole different story.

I don't look specifically for a long term relationship, but I am active in the dating scene, and I believe that if I actively meet girls and screen them out and see if they are compatible with me, I will have a much higher chance meeting the "right one". The percentages will work to my favor.

The beauty of human interaction is that there will always be exceptions. Though as a rule of thumb to be dominant, every great rule has exceptions. But it really all comes down to what type of personality is the best compatible fit.

Being a man isn't about being dominant, abusive to girls, etc. etc.
It's about taking responsibility for your actions, actively doing things that you want to do in your life, going through life without apology, having respect for yourself, taking charge of your life.

Think about it this way...

Would a woman find it attractive if a guy whines and moans and complains about how life is so unfair and he is a victim and there is nothing he can do to change things?

Would a woman find it attractive if a guy just sits home all day and does nothing at all and be very unproductive?

Would a woman find it attractive if a guy keeps apologizing over every little single thing (and the majority of them aren't even his fault)?

Would a woman find it attractive if a guy has zero respect for himself, thinks he has no luck, hates himself, and doesn't mind if others treat him badly?

I think you get my point...

I find it funny how people get so over-reactive about the term "being a man".

Maybe they don't understand what "being a man" means.

I used to feel like a victim and not in control of my life. For me personally, it was one of the worst feelings I've ever felt.

But now that I take responsibility for my actions and actually take charge of my life, I feel a lot better.

People with low self esteem whine and ***** and complain about how things aren't fair.

Life isn't fair, guys. Get over it. Make it go into YOUR favor.

People with low self esteem wants validation from others, especially women, and this is a huge trap.

For me, I live my life for me. If a woman doesn't like the way how I act, or doesn't get along with me, that's fine. She wasn't meant for me, and it's over. If she is disrespectful of me, my time, or my property, it's over.

People who say that I'm a jerk don't realize that those people who say that have no respect for themselves.

All in all, get a life and live a life of excellence. Don't expect anything less.

 

[AHotGreasedUpJigglyPuff 4 Luvin']

Ok, so I've got this problem. I made the mistake of giving my number out to this girl whom I found mildly interesting at the time. Well, as it turns out, she isn't interesting at all. In fact, she's the most boring person I've ever met. You may think I'm being harsh here, but trust me, I'm not. I am one of those nice guys.

Now, my problem is that she continues to text me, day in and day out. I tell her how insignificant her life is, and it only seems to excite her. What am I supposed to do to end this downwards spiral of loathing and fiery boredom?

 

[KoreanDJ111]

Ok, so I've got this problem. I made the mistake of giving my number out to this girl whom I found mildly interesting at the time. Well, as it turns out, she isn't interesting at all. In fact, she's the most boring person I've ever met. You may think I'm being harsh here, but trust me, I'm not. I am one of those nice guys.

Now, my problem is that she continues to text me, day in and day out. I tell her how insignificant her life is, and it only seems to excite her. What am I supposed to do to end this downwards spiral of loathing and fiery boredom?

Tell her that you just want to be friends.

Mindgames.

 

[Cinder]

@Jigglypuff: Never had that problem...I would a) stop telling her her life is insignificant >_>...and b) uhh...try to find something about her you like? Idk...maybe she's into something you don't know about...

 

[KoreanDJ111]

^Never had that problem...I would a) stop telling her her life is insignificant >_>...and b) uhh...try to find something about her you like? Idk...maybe she's into something you don't know about...

First off, he is teasing the girl, which girls like to communicate with boys, since it's fun.

Second, you can't think of why a girl is attractive. Either she is or she isn't. If she isn't, it's best for you to go on with your life. No johns.

 

[Jammer]

Tell her to murder people for you. That will spice up her life.

So, you're saying that you've told her, to her face (or in a text message), that she was boring and insignificant? I can't imagine why she still wants to be around you. Have you told her that you, personally, are not interested in her?

If you did, then I am at a lost. If she won't stop texting you (i.e., she's harassing you), then I guess you should send her one last message saying "Sorry. I'm not interested in you. I'm not going to reply to any more messages." And then ignore any more messages.

Good luck.

 

[MattDel]

Now, my problem is that she continues to text me, day in and day out. I tell her how insignificant her life is, and it only seems to excite her. What am I supposed to do to end this downwards spiral of loathing and fiery boredom?

she LIKES when you say that her life is insignificant?

well in that case, i guess you should start praising her or something

 

[Cinder]

First off, he is teasing the girl, which girls like to communicate with boys, since it's fun.

Second, you can't think of why a girl is attractive. Either she is or she isn't. If she isn't, it's best for you to go on with your life. No johns.

Like I said, this situation is new to me...unless having a mentally unstable stalker fits the profile...never calls, just follows you around, and has MAJOR emotional problems...telling her to back off would get me in detention or somethin' >_<...but I digress...

Anyway, I totally agree...if you don't find a person attractive (not just in a physical sense...personality-wise too), don't stay with them...move on...easy enough...

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Yes, I read the wall of text and found it contained a lot of repetition to drive away at a single point that was critical of something that nobody in this thread actually said. No one here is treating girls as objects or "tools." At least, I am certainly not. If anything, I'm the one who the girls treat as a tool. There is a ****-ton of misconstruing going on here.

I don't think you understand how attraction works. There ARE universal things that attract humans.

Guys are attracted to women unless they are gay. That is a true statement, but WAIT! That is a generalization!! Therefore it can't be true! RIGHT!?

No one ever said that every woman is attracted to the exact same thing, but there are things that most women will find attractive in a man, universal things, like confidence and a good sense of humour. Actually, those are really the only two things any woman you ask, across the board, will admit as being attractive qualities. There are other attributes associated with attraction, but they will deviate from person to person, I find.

But to blatently say that these people who write books on attraction don't know what they're talking about is scientifically ignorant, since these are all things that can be proven or unproven very easily, just by testing it yourself.

There were never any posts directly saying any of the things I attacked but it was being implied by more than one member and I decided to attack the worst case scenario thought patterns just to get it all out the way and in the field. Waiting for something like that to build up to the worst case scenario is just a waste of time. Might as well get it out in the open right now, eh?

And I apologize for the repetition. When I get fired up, I tend to repeat points for emphasis just so it sticks in your mind but I can see how it can get old after a while. Now to attack your points. Lucky you, eh?

First of all, I never said generalizations were always inaccurate. But generalizations on a GROUP are usually always inaccurate (aside from basic and obvious things like; most black people are... dun dun dun! BLACK!). Mrs. Bahamut is a PERFECT example of what I'm trying to stress.

I don't believe for a second that men and women are so easilly understood or read. Sure, we ARE different. Anatomy tells us that. But thought patterns are something humans will never be able to read because of free will. Free will can break ANY theory you have about women or men. Absolutely ANY theory.

What you might think is a smart "scientific" approach to dating could turn into a disaster waiting to happen. I don't doubt for a second that people write those books just to make a quick penny off the people gullible or desparate enough to believe what they read. Here, let me give you an example of a scenario where the book could be applied:

Guy: "Oh, honey. Let me pick the movie."
Girl: (In head: What? Does he REALLY think HE is going to pick the movie?) "Umm... What did you have in mind?"
Guy: (In head: If I pick a chick flick then she is sure to love my taste and it'll get me somewhere. The book says "Pick something she would like".) "Oh, we're going to see "Insert random romantic movie here"."
Girl: (In head: Is he gay?) "Uh... I really don't want to see that movie."
Guy: "..." "But... You would like that, right?"
Girl: "Are you serious? Hell no!"
Guy: "..."
Girl: "..."

Lovely. But hey, you're right. Not every scenario is going to be like that and you may be talking to a girl that will be swayed that way. But my point is, you shouldn't rely on a book and pre-determined methods as a way of romancing a girl. You could try, I don't know, actually get to know her as a PERSON instead of as a test subject or object that's been "figured out".

And I understand that you aren't refering to her as such but that's the implication and that's what you're doing whether you notice it or not. And this brings me to my next point.

@Jammer: Again, you're missing the whole point. You CAN talk to girls like you talk to guys. I know because I've done it. And I know what subjects you're referring to and I STILL talk about that stuff around them. By simply acknowledging that you shouldn't talk to girls the same way as you would talk to guys you are screwing up by doing two things wrong.

1. You're being sexist whether you would like to admit it or not. Saying you're not doesn't mean you aren't being sexist. And hey, that doesn't make you wrong or anything. You've just fallen under the ideals that girls are totally different and should be treated totally differently. And they are different to an EXTENT. But as far as conversations go, that's a matter of taste. I could be a guy and not like sex talk. Or I could be a girl and be mad about sex talk. It's all in the person, not in the sex.

2. You're not being yourself and therefore you're not being open and honest with your girlfriend (or just any girl in general). You treat them differently and act differently so they think that that is the kind of person you are and when they find out who you TRULY are, they become surprised and sometimes even repulsed which simply leads back to the ideal that girls think a certain way when really it was just you feeding the wrong mind set. If you are open and honest and act the way you truly are then you will find girls that aren't turned off or repulsed. And they won't care because you're going to be yourself all the time.

 

[KoreanDJ111]

D*mn Uncle Kenny, I have no idea what kind of book you are talking about anymore. If you critique anything, you have to know at least a little about what it is talking about.

And there is no such thing as black and white. There are definitely gray areas in life.

 

[Somasu]

You know, finding a relationship has been so very difficult for me for one specific reason that I don't quite know how to solve.

That reason is finding out that person's sexuality.

I'm a gay man, and so far in my life, I've only been in one gay relationship (and a straight one, back when I didn't realize my sexuality). The problem I have is finding out people's sexuality. I've been able to spot quite a few of them, most being straight, but there are so many male friends I've had a romantic interest in that I couldn't tell for the life of me whether they were straight or gay.

I'm not worried about finding people to be in a relationship all the time, but I honestly am not completely sure what to look for. I especially don't know what hints to give out if I happened to like one of my male friends (whom I suspected of being gay/bi).


I think my biggest problem is a recent one where I did find out that one of my guy friends is gay, but I have no idea how to tell him that I found out (or if I even should tell him).


Being gay is kinda tough, when it comes to finding relationships. At least it's been tough for me.

 

[Banana_Dragon]

I personally find it how various guys here seem to look upon dating/getting a girl as some sort of mathematical system or a science.

Us guys, we're all different, right? We have different hobbies, go to different places, have different opinions, like different kinds of music, have different kinds of attitudes like different people for different personality traits, etc... Us guys are also, in fact, human, right?
Last time I checked, girls are human too, so why would they be all the same?

My longest relationship so far lasted two years. I got to know her through a chat room, and we only met in real life once or twice every month because of the distance (and both our parents opposed meeting people from chatrooms so we had to meet in secret even) but when we met, it was always very very special.
First time we met in real life was when our relationship started. I told her I liked her, all stuttering and everything and she said "aww! you're so nervous it's cute!" and that she liked me as well. I wasn't being dominant in any way at all... Or at least not consciously.

My second longest lasting relationship was half a year and also started with me telling the girl I liked her and we broke up as friends after half a year and even to this day we're still good friends and see each other frequently.

Actually, I did try the "dominant" approach for a while in the middle of my puberty. The girls I got this way ended up being total *****es and ended up causing me so much trouble that I won't go into because it's creepy and depressing.

Okay, this post is getting a bit self-centered and emo-ish but my point is: girls are individuals too and every girl is gonna be attracted by different things. Sure, there will be things that "more girls" are attracted to but never every girl, and the exact same things might just as well repulse another girl.

Sure, key things are that she has to be interested in you and that you have to make her laugh/make her happy. But you know why that always works? Because it works on us guys too! So it works on every human being!
I mean, why would I want a girl that I'm not interested in or that doesn't make me feel good/happy when I'm around her?

Desperate for a mathematical formula? Alright, here's one I believe to be true.
The key to a good relationship:
30 to 40%: affection and 60 to 70% c o m m u n i c a t i o n

Being affective with each other increases intimacy and is very good for maintaining a deeper bond, because you're frequently physically close, and that works good for staying emotionally close as well.
And COMMUNICATION is a big one. The best partner you can have, is someone who you can talk with everything about, no matter what or through how rough of a time either one or both is/are going.

Common interests and sharing a majority of viewpoints/opinions is the way to go. Although completely differing/opposing in *some* things helps balancing each other out and might even compliment each other. You can perfectly have an opposing personality but the same opinions/views/thoughts/interests.

I like this thread very much though, I'll probably be checking this out frequently.

 

[Banana_Dragon]

I really don't like to double post and this is the first time since 2001 (look up the 2nd BananaDragon in the members list I've been around for a long time) I'm doing this but oh well...

@Somasu: Well, I'm straight so I may not be able to imagine your situation correctly but I'm gonna take a shot at it and try to give some advice.
First of all, just try to see how your male friends act around women. Are they flirtative or not?
If it doesn't show this way... I don't know if this is tough for you but I guess... Try to casually strike up a conversation about women? In general? Or about a woman you know or something. And notice for clues in their speech/reactions. If they say anything like "yeah, she's hot" then I think it's obvious that they're straight.
It's too bad there's so many homophobes in today's society... Else I'd say just walk up to someone and ask if they're gay or not, but I understand that you can't do this. Most people would probably even take it as an insult (which is beyond me, it's just a question after all).

I haven't been able to give a "ton" of advice perhaps but I hope I helped out a bit at least.

 

[Deleted member]

If you decide to tell him that you know he's gay, just email him anonymously and sign it as

- A close friend

 

[Xsyven]

]
Being gay is kinda tough, when it comes to finding relationships. At least it's been tough for me.

Well, duh. Only 10% of the male population is gay, and most of them are all closet cases.

If you're like my gay friend, the only guys you're interested are the ones that are just guys. None of the femmy ones. I feel bad for him. He has a new boyfriend what seems like every other month, none of which are his type-- but what else can he do?

It's a hard lifestyle. I hope you get everything worked out.

 

[Jammer]

@Jammer: Again, you're missing the whole point. You CAN talk to girls like you talk to guys. I know because I've done it. And I know what subjects you're referring to and I STILL talk about that stuff around them. By simply acknowledging that you shouldn't talk to girls the same way as you would talk to guys you are screwing up by doing two things wrong.

1. You're being sexist whether you would like to admit it or not. Saying you're not doesn't mean you aren't being sexist. And hey, that doesn't make you wrong or anything. You've just fallen under the ideals that girls are totally different and should be treated totally differently. And they are different to an EXTENT. But as far as conversations go, that's a matter of taste. I could be a guy and not like sex talk. Or I could be a girl and be mad about sex talk. It's all in the person, not in the sex.

2. You're not being yourself and therefore you're not being open and honest with your girlfriend (or just any girl in general). You treat them differently and act differently so they think that that is the kind of person you are and when they find out who you TRULY are, they become surprised and sometimes even repulsed which simply leads back to the ideal that girls think a certain way when really it was just you feeding the wrong mind set. If you are open and honest and act the way you truly are then you will find girls that aren't turned off or repulsed. And they won't care because you're going to be yourself all the time.

I apologize for not stating my views clearly.

I talk to guys and girls the same way. I have the same personality around both sexes. Well, mostly--I usually don't flirt with guys (but I have learned that you should not compliment a guy on his tight shirt because it makes him look "sexy"). But the things I talk about and do with girls and guys are different.

I assure you, most girls don't care about the next Smash or Halo game coming out, although that is of course a stereotype that is not always true. They don't enjoy watching movies and rewinding and rewatching the parts with the boobies (well, neither do I, but most of my male friends do). Girls usually aren't interested in football or sports statistics, although, of course, some are (I'm sure some are, but I've never actually met a girl who could tell me who was the first draft pick in 1978 or whatever).

Girls are usually good about not talking about fashion and hair styles and stuff like that with guys. But just a warning: If you act interested, you might just be spending the next hour discussing celebrities' shoes and deciding if you should buy the nearest style at the mall. I don't know a single guy who reads Cosmo or Seventeen. Of course, I'm not saying that every girl reads those magazines. But I think I have a valid point.

I think pretty much anyone will agree that girls and guys, in general, have different interests. We like to do different things. That's what I meant when I said I talk to guys and girls differently.

Yes, there are exceptions. Some girls like hardcore video games. We have proof of that on these forums. But, in general, you can't go around acting like guys and girls are the same.

 

[Livvers]

Oh lol, this thread. How I love thee.

Ok, I believe a lot of people are taking the "dominance" explanation to the most extreme degree possible, and also, it's not so much dominance as confidence and being sure of yourself. And I believe in the beginning it's better for the man to lead, but only in the beginning if you plan to have a long-term relationship. I only say this because it was probably the man who initiated going on a date, so therefore he is responsible for the night. If a guy were to ask me out, then have no plans what-so-ever of what to do when we actually hung out, it would strike me as odd and, well, boring. Once you start getting to know a person better and have hung out more, then I think things tend to equal out in deciding what to do.

And, as it has been stressed multiple times here, girls are all different in what they like. A lot of girls like a guy who's overly confident(even obnoxious. I won't deny that *******s do get girlfriends,)when she first meets him. Some girls don't. Personally, I find it a bit suspicious when a guy is completely smooth and confident with me. I find it more attractive for a guy to come off as a bit nervous and unsure(but I'm a bit unusual as I'm very attracted to nerds). There is still confidence present, though, because the guy still had the guts to come up to me and talk to me.

Basically what I'm trying to say that confidence is a big thing in attracting someone of the opposite sex, guy or girl. No one wants someone who will fall over their feet to please you.

Somasu, just move to NYC. There are gay guys everywhere here =D Lol. In all seriousness, though, yeah, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to find someone. Especially since guys are way more likely to react in a homophobic way if they find out someone they know is gay. Good luck with finding someone =) And hey, I guess that's one area where the internet really helps people out.

Edit: Oh yeah, and referring to girls as hb's is hilarious and kind of pathetic. Really.

 

[BigRick]

hah... I love women that tell me that I'm too smooth

You get 10 points for saying that lol

 

[GoodNess]

There were never any posts directly saying any of the things I attacked but it was being implied by more than one member and I decided to attack the worst case scenario thought patterns just to get it all out the way and in the field. Waiting for something like that to build up to the worst case scenario is just a waste of time. Might as well get it out in the open right now, eh?

And I apologize for the repetition. When I get fired up, I tend to repeat points for emphasis just so it sticks in your mind but I can see how it can get old after a while. Now to attack your points. Lucky you, eh?

Lucky me, indeed!

First of all, I never said generalizations were always inaccurate. But generalizations on a GROUP are usually always inaccurate (aside from basic and obvious things like; most black people are... dun dun dun! BLACK!). Mrs. Bahamut is a PERFECT example of what I'm trying to stress.

Yep. I was using your tactic of taking things to their logical conclusion to illustrate a point, so you pointing out how that doesn't work really makes me quite happy.

I don't believe for a second that men and women are so easilly understood or read. Sure, we ARE different. Anatomy tells us that. But thought patterns are something humans will never be able to read because of free will. Free will can break ANY theory you have about women or men. Absolutely ANY theory.

Yep. Totally. There's no such thing as "signs" that tell you a girl likes you. You can just never know anything because every human being is as mysterious as a puzzle shrouded in an enigma. Very existentialist.

I can't argue against you because all I can say is, no, look at the way humans operate around you and tell me if you EVER see any patterns in flirtation. If the answer is no, every situation is unique, then all of these "experts" are wrong and should probably be shot and peed on. If the answer is yes, there are patterns, then maybe there is something we can learn from them.

What you might think is a smart "scientific" approach to dating could turn into a disaster waiting to happen. I don't doubt for a second that people write those books just to make a quick penny off the people gullible or desparate enough to believe what they read. Here, let me give you an example of a scenario where the book could be applied:

Guy: "Oh, honey. Let me pick the movie."
Girl: (In head: What? Does he REALLY think HE is going to pick the movie?) "Umm... What did you have in mind?"
Guy: (In head: If I pick a chick flick then she is sure to love my taste and it'll get me somewhere. The book says "Pick something she would like".) "Oh, we're going to see "Insert random romantic movie here"."
Girl: (In head: Is he gay?) "Uh... I really don't want to see that movie."
Guy: "..." "But... You would like that, right?"
Girl: "Are you serious? Hell no!"
Guy: "..."
Girl: "..."

Lovely. But hey, you're right. Not every scenario is going to be like that and you may be talking to a girl that will be swayed that way. But my point is, you shouldn't rely on a book and pre-determined methods as a way of romancing a girl. You could try, I don't know, actually get to know her as a PERSON instead of as a test subject or object that's been "figured out".

I never said anything about a "scientific approach to dating." I wrote, "to blatently state that this is wrong is scientifically ignorant" because you can test the methods. They're not scientific THEMSELVES, but they can be tested in a scientific manner.

The example you provide is silly because that's not the way this type of advice works, at all. You are working under a misconception. Nobody can really tell you the exact things to say.

It's like working on a skill. Ever taken any acting classes? You are trying to tell me that the idea of improving your acting is stupid because every play is different and every monologue you give is going to be with a different character. Why should you bother working on your acting skills if these situations vary so much? Do you see the parallel?

It's ok to get advice on posture, confidence, and the timing to deliver good jokes. There are things that are just inherently attractive, and this type of advice seeks to build on those foundations to bring out all those good things about you. It's not trying to change you or trying to tell you exactly how everything is going to happen when you walk into a movie store.

 

[Jammer]

I agree with GoodNess pretty much completely. I just wanted to say something that I think he missed, but first here is a quote to give you some context:

during AP bio, i got this hb's selling temp really high and i almost made out with her but i made a fatal mistake while i put my arm around hers and she asked "what are you doing?" and i responded with "you said you wanted to make out right?" that response completely turned her off becuase i was seeking affirmation instead of leading her. i should have said "we're gona make out right now."

This poor bloke thinks that if he says the exact right words, everything will work out, and that if he accidentally says something as a question, instead of a statement, it will "completely turn her off". Girls aren't so touchy. Talking to girls is not some precision art form where if you word your thoughts incorrectly, she'll leave you. Real relationships aren't that flimsy.

I mean, really.

But then again, I doubt that was anything close to a real relationship. The way people talk about it, it seems those books' sole purpose is to help guys get laid, and not care about the girl. You just bend her to the point of breaking without letting her actually snap, right? That's how you get her to move the quickest possible so you can be sexually satisfied, with the bonus of not having any real connection?

Also, I wonder if he stopped to think that when you tell someone to do something, they might do it even if they're not interested, whereas if you ask them, they may truthfully say that they don't want to? So what does that make you when you tell somebody to do something so that they don't say no to it?

I think it makes you controlling.

This whole thing really bothers me. I realize that many of you don't share my views about it being shallow to only think of having sex with the most beautiful girl ("HB" with the highest score) possible. That's okay.

 

[GoodNess]

Jammer, you're right. A lot of the dating books are geared towards people looking to just get laid, and that is a "type of crowd" with an entirely separate set of priorities, and you are right to shy away from that stuff because people like you and I aren't trying to be "players" that hook up with all the hotties at the club.

Just by acknowledging that players do exist, these people who are good at "getting ladies," shows how there is an existence in this pattern of flirtation, and some people are really trying to master it. They will be the first to tell you that their "techniques" don't work on everyone, and it will take a certain type of girl to fall for their style, usually some clubbing hottie.

As someone seeking a relationship, you don't have to worry about picking up hotties at the club, and therefore you don't have to worry about knowing how to say the exact right thing at the most crucial moment. The reason it's so important in the situation that Black Waltz described is because this girl is obviously super picky and is also a girl who is used to this type of hardcore flirtation. It's all very surface level and superficial.

There are skills any guy can learn to be "good" at flirting, but I doubt most guys would want to be with a woman who actually values those skills over anything else.

 

[Black Waltz]

Oh lol, this thread. How I love thee.

Ok, I believe a lot of people are taking the "dominance" explanation to the most extreme degree possible, and also, it's not so much dominance as confidence and being sure of yourself. And I believe in the beginning it's better for the man to lead, but only in the beginning if you plan to have a long-term relationship. I only say this because it was probably the man who initiated going on a date, so therefore he is responsible for the night. If a guy were to ask me out, then have no plans what-so-ever of what to do when we actually hung out, it would strike me as odd and, well, boring. Once you start getting to know a person better and have hung out more, then I think things tend to equal out in deciding what to do.

And, as it has been stressed multiple times here, girls are all different in what they like. A lot of girls like a guy who's overly confident(even obnoxious. I won't deny that *******s do get girlfriends,)when she first meets him. Some girls don't. Personally, I find it a bit suspicious when a guy is completely smooth and confident with me. I find it more attractive for a guy to come off as a bit nervous and unsure(but I'm a bit unusual as I'm very attracted to nerds). There is still confidence present, though, because the guy still had the guts to come up to me and talk to me.

Basically what I'm trying to say that confidence is a big thing in attracting someone of the opposite sex, guy or girl. No one wants someone who will fall over their feet to please you.

Somasu, just move to NYC. There are gay guys everywhere here =D Lol. In all seriousness, though, yeah, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to find someone. Especially since guys are way more likely to react in a homophobic way if they find out someone they know is gay. Good luck with finding someone =) And hey, I guess that's one area where the internet really helps people out.

Edit: Oh yeah, and referring to girls as hb's is hilarious and kind of pathetic. Really.

ok i respect your opinion that "hb" is pathetic, but youre probably not as serious with the seduction process and community as i am.

I agree with GoodNess pretty much completely. I just wanted to say something that I think he missed, but first here is a quote to give you some context:



This poor bloke thinks that if he says the exact right words, everything will work out, and that if he accidentally says something as a question, instead of a statement, it will "completely turn her off". Girls aren't so touchy. Talking to girls is not some precision art form where if you word your thoughts incorrectly, she'll leave you. Real relationships aren't that flimsy.

I mean, really.

But then again, I doubt that was anything close to a real relationship. The way people talk about it, it seems those books' sole purpose is to help guys get laid, and not care about the girl. You just bend her to the point of breaking without letting her actually snap, right? That's how you get her to move the quickest possible so you can be sexually satisfied, with the bonus of not having any real connection?

Also, I wonder if he stopped to think that when you tell someone to do something, they might do it even if they're not interested, whereas if you ask them, they may truthfully say that they don't want to? So what does that make you when you tell somebody to do something so that they don't say no to it?

I think it makes you controlling.

This whole thing really bothers me. I realize that many of you don't share my views about it being shallow to only think of having sex with the most beautiful girl ("HB" with the highest score) possible. That's okay.

what i meant with that scenario that i posted was that if you screw up your words then it can possibly ruin the mood, which is what happened there. i think im missing the point of this thread however. i think that most of you are talking about gaining and maintaining a long term relationship while im talking about scoring lots of women. i honestly have no experience in the long term area but i can help people with the BEGINNING process of a long term relationship, which is attraction and seduction. i think im just too young for a long term relationship and its too much of a hassle for me. i'd rather just make out on the spot.

 

[Jammer]

i think im missing the point of this thread however. i think that most of you are talking about gaining and maintaining a long term relationship while im talking about scoring lots of women. i honestly have no experience in the long term area but i can help people with the BEGINNING process of a long term relationship, which is attraction and seduction. i think im just too young for a long term relationship and its too much of a hassle for me. i'd rather just make out on the spot.

Aww, you didn't miss the point of the thread. You've contributed a lot to it. You're just looking at it from a different angle than I am. You just want to "make out on the spot". That's a totally fine thing, I believe, as long as the girl knows it isn't "real". I'm just worried that you might be manipulating them into thinking it is so that you can get your way with them.

I don't mean to insult you or anything, of course. We just have very different ways of going about our business.

As long as you aren't hurting anyone or yourself, you can do whatever you what, making out on the spot included. But please remember that it's very easy to take advantage of someone with a lesser will than your own when you're concentrating so hard on your desires.

 

[Black Waltz]

Aww, you didn't miss the point of the thread. You've contributed a lot to it. You're just looking at it from a different angle than I am. You just want to "make out on the spot". That's a totally fine thing, I believe, as long as the girl knows it isn't "real". I'm just worried that you might be manipulating them into thinking it is so that you can get your way with them.

I don't mean to insult you or anything, of course. We just have very different ways of going about our business.

As long as you aren't hurting anyone or yourself, you can do whatever you what, making out on the spot included. But please remember that it's very easy to take advantage of someone with a lesser will than your own when you're concentrating so hard on your desires.

lol, thanks jammer, no offense taken. at my school, about 95% of all the kids here have parents that make like $120k salaries and are used to being spoiled. the hbs are even worse; they think they can get away with everything and complain that their parents bought them a BMW instead of a porsche. its pathetic really. in essence, they're very resilient and dominant young women. i wouldnt worry about my manipulating them too much

 

[Cinder]

Wow...I'm surprised no one has posted here in a while...meh...

Not that anyone noticed (>_>), I've been using my own personal stories to try and help a couple of y'all...but now, I have a question...this is more of an appropriateness/ethics question...

I am a senior in high school...I take an orchestra class, and since I took off a year (last year), I was put in the lower orchestra, which is predominantly freshmen and sophomores...there's one girl in this class who I think may have some kind of interest in me...I gotta admit, she's kinda cute, she's really quiet, and I think I may kinda like her...there's one problem: she's a freshman...I'm not sure how well that age difference would pan out...I ran the idea by a friend of mine, and he gave me that "are you out of your ****ing mind" kinda reaction...

Basically, I think I have feelings for a girl that's at least three years (maybe four, if she's still 14) younger than me...I know eventually, that won't matter, but how do you guys feel about that kind of stuff in high school? Do you think it's appropriate for a freshman to date a senior?

 

[Jammer]

Usually not, I'd say.

Although I have to admit that when I was a freshmen, I dated a senior (it was a bit complicated) for like 2 dates.

Especially when you're the guy and she's the girl, it probably won't really end well when you're so much older and you're both so young. So, I'd say "No."

Although a freshmen can look physically attractive (although it's moderately rare), they are usually not mature enough to hold their own with a senior, especially a male senior.

 

[BigRick]

1) She's into you
2) I don't really know what to say about the age thing... I wouldn't do it if I were you

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Lucky me, indeed!



Yep. I was using your tactic of taking things to their logical conclusion to illustrate a point, so you pointing out how that doesn't work really makes me quite happy.



Yep. Totally. There's no such thing as "signs" that tell you a girl likes you. You can just never know anything because every human being is as mysterious as a puzzle shrouded in an enigma. Very existentialist.

I can't argue against you because all I can say is, no, look at the way humans operate around you and tell me if you EVER see any patterns in flirtation. If the answer is no, every situation is unique, then all of these "experts" are wrong and should probably be shot and peed on. If the answer is yes, there are patterns, then maybe there is something we can learn from them.



I never said anything about a "scientific approach to dating." I wrote, "to blatently state that this is wrong is scientifically ignorant" because you can test the methods. They're not scientific THEMSELVES, but they can be tested in a scientific manner.

The example you provide is silly because that's not the way this type of advice works, at all. You are working under a misconception. Nobody can really tell you the exact things to say.

It's like working on a skill. Ever taken any acting classes? You are trying to tell me that the idea of improving your acting is stupid because every play is different and every monologue you give is going to be with a different character. Why should you bother working on your acting skills if these situations vary so much? Do you see the parallel?

It's ok to get advice on posture, confidence, and the timing to deliver good jokes. There are things that are just inherently attractive, and this type of advice seeks to build on those foundations to bring out all those good things about you. It's not trying to change you or trying to tell you exactly how everything is going to happen when you walk into a movie store.

Somewhere along the line I must have missed your whole point. But now I see what you're saying and what I was trying to address was totally different then what you were trying to say.

Argh, this is what I get for skimming.

No hard feelings, eh?

 

[GoodNess]

Somewhere along the line I must have missed your whole point. But now I see what you're saying and what I was trying to address was totally different then what you were trying to say.

Argh, this is what I get for skimming.

No hard feelings, eh?

You are very right about that one. I love you, man.

 

[Zook]

After reading through this thread, I've realized just how lol-inducing Black Waltz is. HBs, dominating women, getting-a-date bibles...

@Cinder: It's been done before. However, they normally don't end out too well, and some people just *might* think you're with her just to bang her. You should do whatever feels right.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I haven't been following much, what was all that rubbish about books and dominance and crap?

Just listen to Mrs. Bahamut, she knows what she's talking about. And that was a really lovely wedding picture btw.


You don't need books, you don't need to look, you don't need to be any different. When someone loves you for the way you are, then you know they're the right one. Dominating wont work. Working together will. I need Vikki about as much as she needs me.

 

[Livvers]

ok i respect your opinion that "hb" is pathetic, but youre probably not as serious with the seduction process and community as i am.

No no. It doesn't matter, it's still hilarious. Instead of just being like,"This really hot girl" or any variation, you use the term HOT BABE(HB)7.5!, and relate to girls in that manner. It makes me lol. I don't need to be as serious with the seduction process, nor do I want to be, but I know people who are and they'd probably find the term funny, too. I'm not trying to insult you. I just find the term funny.

And Cinder, if you want a long-term relationship with this girl, think of this: You're about to graduate and she just started high school. You'll soon be going to a college(I assume)that may or may not be close by, and your life will be changing quite a bit. She'll change, but not quite in the same way. Also, you will have a lot more freedoms and privileges than her since she's younger and her parents will probably be a lot more strict about what she can and can't do, so be prepared for that.

If you're looking for more of a casual relationship, I say go ahead and try it. Just think of everything that's going to be going on in your life in the next year and be cautious if you're looking for a long term relationship(or if you prefer long-term. Whatever. I think you get my point. Lol)

 

[Black Waltz]

I haven't been following much, what was all that rubbish about books and dominance and crap?

Just listen to Mrs. Bahamut, she knows what she's talking about. And that was a really lovely wedding picture btw.


You don't need books, you don't need to look, you don't need to be any different. When someone loves you for the way you are, then you know they're the right one. Dominating wont work. Working together will. I need Vikki about as much as she needs me.

again, im not talking about long term relationships like marriage. im talking about going to a bar per se and getting a girl to want you so badly that she'll be up for sex anywhere.

No no. It doesn't matter, it's still hilarious. Instead of just being like,"This really hot girl" or any variation, you use the term HOT BABE(HB)7.5!, and relate to girls in that manner. It makes me lol. I don't need to be as serious with the seduction process, nor do I want to be, but I know people who are and they'd probably find the term funny, too. I'm not trying to insult you. I just find the term funny.

And Cinder, if you want a long-term relationship with this girl, think of this: You're about to graduate and she just started high school. You'll soon be going to a college(I assume)that may or may not be close by, and your life will be changing quite a bit. She'll change, but not quite in the same way. Also, you will have a lot more freedoms and privileges than her since she's younger and her parents will probably be a lot more strict about what she can and can't do, so be prepared for that.

If you're looking for more of a casual relationship, I say go ahead and try it. Just think of everything that's going to be going on in your life in the next year and be cautious if you're looking for a long term relationship(or if you prefer long-term. Whatever. I think you get my point. Lol)

i say hb with my friend if we're standing like right next to one. i dont wana say, wow, that girl is HOT or i immediatedly give away the fact that im going to hit on her. so if theres an hb standing in line in front of my friend and i, i say "HB 7.4...?" and he'll say, "nah, maybe 7". its kinda like a code. i want to disqualify myself as a wooer as much as possible so she thinks that im not interested that much in her.

and to reiterate my purpose of posting in here:
im not talking about long term relationships!

 

[Cinder]

@Livvers: that has to be one of the smartest things I've heard so far...I'm not exactly marriage-minded, so I may give it a whirl (btw, I'm going to a local college, so that wouldn't be a problem)

I think I know how I'm going to deal with this...as Jammer said, freshmen aren't quite as mature, but I think I'll try and get to know her better, to see if she's really that immature (she seems mature to me...but I could be wrong *shrugs*)...and as Livvers said, since I'm not too concerned about a long term relationship, I should give it a shot...if she's as mature as I think she is, I think I may go for it...the way I see it, she's attractive, she's introverted (like me), and we have a few things in common (if nothing else, interest in the orchestra)...

I don't see the harm in giving it a shot, since I'm not expecting a long term relationship...if if does turn into a long-term, fine, but it's not what I'm shooting for...

 

[adaptor17]

Wow...I'm surprised no one has posted here in a while...meh...

Not that anyone noticed (>_>), I've been using my own personal stories to try and help a couple of y'all...but now, I have a question...this is more of an appropriateness/ethics question...

I am a senior in high school...I take an orchestra class, and since I took off a year (last year), I was put in the lower orchestra, which is predominantly freshmen and sophomores...there's one girl in this class who I think may have some kind of interest in me...I gotta admit, she's kinda cute, she's really quiet, and I think I may kinda like her...there's one problem: she's a freshman...I'm not sure how well that age difference would pan out...I ran the idea by a friend of mine, and he gave me that "are you out of your ****ing mind" kinda reaction...

Basically, I think I have feelings for a girl that's at least three years (maybe four, if she's still 14) younger than me...I know eventually, that won't matter, but how do you guys feel about that kind of stuff in high school? Do you think it's appropriate for a freshman to date a senior?

i believe that age never matters in relationships.if you love someone and they love you,thats the end of the story.nothing else matters.but i also think that society judges and may not always accept this age differential.