Getting Schooled Mafia- Cult Wins!

[Xiivi]

This is why following PRs can turn out terribly

This is why §teel not counter-claiming and joining a bandwagon led by the fake tracker can result in winning with a different faction.

:D

 

[Steel]

i knew what i was doing obv

not like i forgot i was the tracker

:3

 

[Xiivi]

(12:45:13 PM) Amir: why didn't you counterclaim nick?
(12:45:15 PM) Amir: >_>
(12:45:28 PM) St*el: oh ****....
(12:45:33 PM) St*el: i completely forgot we were a tracker
(12:45:35 PM) St*el: god ****ing **** IT
(12:45:42 PM) Amir: ...
(12:45:57 PM) St*el: >_>...
(12:46:02 PM) St*el: <_<;;
(12:46:36 PM) St*el: ...
(12:46:43 PM) St*el: did that just screw us completely?
(12:47:29 PM) Amir: I don't know

 

[DtJ Jungle]

hahahahahahahahahah thats really funny

chaco came up with the idea of nick claiming an investigative role, i said claim tracker

two heads come to gether to pull off an AWESOME WIN

mofuggin bro fist chaco

he carried this game while i was away, good ****.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

GG guys. Cult games r mad.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Should've added a town RB, Shrink and some Mafia PR. Set-up looks almost unwinnable for mafia imo. Stalling the game's progress was really fun though.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

It was fun, but cult leader is the worst role role ever.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Yeah, I'm now convinced that cult leader is broken, but hey, I'm just glad I finally got my first win. (Out of 7 games.)

 

[Ronike]

So... Why didn't the cult die when targeting mafia or if the leader dies? Without those or a ridiculously lucky vig, cult is impossible to beat.

Oh and lol at swords. You do realize you were basically a buffed cult leader in my mafia game, right?

 

[Chaco]

Well, technically, we should've died upon recruiting cult.

And correction Swords, Inquisitor beats it. Cult leader with an SK shot.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Cult doesn't die when recruiting Mafia. They do die however if they're visited by a mason recruiter.

 

[Ronike]

Um, no. Cults are only viable if there is someway to "mass murder" them or to reconvert after lynching the leader. You do realize that once killing roles are dead, the game is impossible to win without killing the cult leader (1 kill, 1 recruit), which becomes exponentially harder every day, right? Thats why they NEED something to balance them out. Which generally is the recruiting mafia problem. And how does it even make sense if they die upon a recruiting mason visiting them? 0 sense does that make.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

shrink would have been really good.

then someone in town would have known there was a cult

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I never said that it makes sense. Doesn't change the fact that this is how cult works (from Epicmafia):

- All Cult members die if the Cult leader dies.
- All Cult members visited by a mason recruiter die.
- Cult can rectruit all roles except masons, tensed PGOs and roles that are made "unrecruitable" by the mod.
- Afaik recruitment can be roleblocked
- There's a town role named "Shrink" who can prevent a player from being rectruited / yakked each night.

 

[Xiivi]

But yeah, cults are great and I'm a big fan of there being a "shrink" type role that can prevent someone from being recruited at night in the game, as well as the rule that attempting to recruit mafia = death of the leader.

My cult thoughts pretty much mirror this.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

- All Cult members visited by a mason recruiter die.

pretty sure this is only the epic mafia variant

and I mean, it's completely up to the mod to dictate how the cult works, regardless of any preconceived notion about what it's sposed to be

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think it's very hard to balance a game with cult in it and I think this set-up shows this quite clearly. The basic idea of the set-up seems to be the Cult vs Comparision Cop is an awesome idea and I think that it's the ideal basis for a game with cult in it. Some things that should have been taken into consideration for a set-up with a cult:

- More players overall. 12 players with a N0 is almost auto-win for cult.
- Some combination of mason recruiter, shrink and town roleblocker.
- An indy cop who investigates players on independent allignment.
- A stronger Mafia team. 2 goons is very underpowered in my book.
- A witch or an interceptor might've worked really well with all those visiting roles.
- If you use lots of vanillas (which is cool with this set-up) a mafia Vanilla Cop would've been awesome.

These are the things that would make games with cult a lot more balanced. The purpose of the cult is to have a growing 3rd party but imo there should never be a point where cult has an auto-win like we did. I mean we basically won when ScumCo recruited Nick. All he had to do was to throw Kevin under the bus and it was already auto-win for cult.

This game convinced me that Cult isn't actually bad to have in a game.

 

[Rockin]

****. Town lost.

I TOLD you guys we should've lynched Nick. I didn't make ANY sense for a framer to pick out someone who caught Maf. Kevin's not the type to let anyone bus him (or just plain not bus at all).

Bah, it's alright. I wasn't gonna out my investigation anyway cause it wasn't like anyone was gonna follow it. =/

Glad I didn't get the indy win. I wouldn't feel right, really =/

Good stuff cult guys

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Haha, we would've recruited you had we not gotten the chance to quickhammer

 

[Omis]

Alright, I obviously didnt read well enough. If cult cant die from mafia investigation its a stupid broken rule.

Bad town play and bad setup lost town the game.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i mean, cult still sucks

but this set up wasn't really that unbalanced. Just a shrink would have made it perfect. scumco got the luck of the draw by recruiting nick n1, and town just went with his fakeclaim for no reason.

I think the game would have actually been better if cult couldn't recruit mafia tho. Then theyd have knowledge that either the person they tried to recruit was scum or that they got shrinked.

 

[Chaco]

Bad town play and bad setup lost town the game.

Well, overall town was actually okay, it was just town was being manipulated ever so easily.

 

[Handorin]

Alright, I obviously didnt read well enough. If cult cant die from mafia investigation its a stupid broken rule.

Bad town play and bad setup lost town the game.

What? You mean recruiting a mafia? Imo, that's a dumb rule. It was just a tad unlucky that cult got a mafia N1, which I didn't really think would happen.

The game could have gone a little bit better for town if Siivi CCed tracker, but he didn't do that in time. It would also have helped if Cacti, the hunter, was a bit more active. I was slightly disappointed he didn't have a larger part in the game, as it was mainly him who kept it going (ie. shoot the CL apart from lynching).

I thought it was fairly balanced, and I tried to not put in so many PRs so cult didn't get tons of info, and I wanted to try uncommon roles and the new game phases.

Cult was the central point of my setup because I was tired of people saying "There's never cult! Don't consider it." or "I don't like playing as cult". With that in mind, I added the comparison cop because it's a really good role that can't be used very often.

I also wanted to have a day killing mafia, just to be different. It was kinda hard to figure out how to actually do that, so Tom and I came up with the phases.

I didn't really think much of a shrink, and it probably would have been good to have in place of the tracker. I liked the idea of having the option to choose which phase to track, so you might catch the Cult/C. Cop or the mafia.

Also, if you didn't notice, cult picks their recruit at night; HOWEVER, the recruit didn't happen until lunch. This gave town a little bit of a lead on numbers and would give a person a chance to win with town rather than being recruited, then dying immediately with the CL and losing. This is also why Rockin did not win with cult. He was chosen, but the cult pushed the lynch before lunch to make the numbers even, rather than waiting for the flip.

P.S I couldn't really make the game larger, since I signed up for a small game.

 

[Tom]

almost all the complaints + criticisms you all have had for the setup have been dumb as balls

setup is not bad

 

[Tom]

2 man mafia underpowered in this game? if cult leader is lynched on Day 2, it is then something like 6 town v 2 mafia. thats not enough scum for you? are you serious, gheb?

 

[Tom]

triple post... i dont even know, it just severely frustrates me when people blame the setup for their loss.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

it wasnt the setup, it was Siivi not CC'ing and Me and Chaco hitting the maf n1.

 

[Tom]

it was more than that. apart from the tracker not counterclaiming the fake-claim tracker... hunter lurked near the end where he is most important, and comparison cop failed to get a correct lynch after getting more than one "different alignments" result. in addition to all of that, scum co did a good job of avoiding suspicion.

cult leader lynch would have resulted in instant win, so i dont know why that has been mentioned in criticisms.

gheb, the mason / cult relationship is only on EM and ive never seen it anywhere else.

cult didnt die when recruiting mafia because this setup was designed for cult, not for mafia. the main threat to the town was the cult, and the side thread was the mafia, and normally it is the other way around. this is why there was a comparison cop and not a normal cop and why there was a tracker.

shrink would have been a good addition. that is good criticism.

 

[Ronike]

If whole cult would have died when CL died, its k then. I didn't see that in the role though. But a cult without mass murder button? Broken IMO. But I do agree town played ****.

 

[Handorin]

1. Cult Leader- Scum Co (Chaco/Junglefever)
You are the cult leader. Each night, you may recruit one person to join the cult. To do this, PM me a message of any sort; it can include anything you want except your role PM. This will be packed in their lunch. During the following lunch, they will come to you and officially join the cult (meaning they are town that morning). If lunch is skipped, they will join the following night. If you are killed in anyway, you and the rest of the cult will die. You will communicate with recruits via QuickTopic. The link is http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/B9n6Nx9EDUv. You are cult aligned and win when you have a majority.

I hope it's more clear now.

 

[Ronike]

Sorry, I suck... continue on.

 

[Rockin]

it was more than that. apart from the tracker not counterclaiming the fake-claim tracker... hunter lurked near the end where he is most important, and comparison cop failed to get a correct lynch after getting more than one "different alignments" result. in addition to all of that, scum co did a good job of avoiding suspicion.

It wasn't my fault. I did try to convince that nick being framed was highly unlikely, especially since I investigated him twice in a row. No one didn't want to believe me, even though siivi vouched for me. It was dissipointing =/

 

[Nicholas1024]

I think it was me selling in KevinM that kept me alive. You see, its very unlikely that another mafia member would do such a thing, and they weren't thinking of indy-hunting. I was surprised nobody put 2 and 2 together though with the sudden stop of NK's. Had somebody been lynched and flipped cult, I would have been dead though.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

2 man mafia underpowered in this game? if cult leader is lynched on Day 2, it is then something like 6 town v 2 mafia. thats not enough scum for you? are you serious, gheb?

No. What I'm saying is that two goons are underpowered. I don't see why there wouldn't be a mafia roleblocker or a janitor or something like that.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Now someone agrees with gheb. (me ATM xP)

 

[Handorin]

I think it was me selling in KevinM that kept me alive. You see, its very unlikely that another mafia member would do such a thing, and they weren't thinking of indy-hunting. I was surprised nobody put 2 and 2 together though with the sudden stop of NK's. Had somebody been lynched and flipped cult, I would have been dead though.

indy hunting and mafia hunting both go under scum hunting.

 

[Nicholas1024]

indy hunting and mafia hunting both go under scum hunting.

Yes, but people tend to think of getting rid of mafia first and SK/other indies later, and that was my saving grace.

 

[Omis]

@Hando
Its just my personal opinion that Cult Leader should be killed if he tries to recruit a mafia. Maybe let the other cult dudes live but not be able to recruit anymore I just think that its kinda unfair. Town was just bad for the most part and Im sure I didnt help at all. I promised many rereads but never really delivered. Swords stop being dumb.

 

[Tom]

No. What I'm saying is that two goons are underpowered. I don't see why there wouldn't be a mafia roleblocker or a janitor or something like that.

mafia did not need powers to have a good chance to win this game, and most of them would actually have strengthened the cult if the mafia roleblocked tracker or comparison cop

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I thought all PRs lose their power if they're culted.